Difficulty Resawing Hardwood w/14" bandsaw

[Ken Lousignont]

I'm currently using 14" Ridgid bandsaw with a 6" riser, Harbor Freight ball-bearing blade guide inserts (in place of the original stationary blocks), and new 1/2" 3 hook carbide blades. Been UNsucessfully trying to resaw some 5/4, 8 1/2" wide, 35" - 40" long cocobolo & bubinga into 3/16" sheets for use in my acoustic guitars. FWIW, I've successfully made some 3/16" test cuts using 2x10 fir.

When I try to cut the harder cocobolo & bubinga, the blade starts wondering after 2 or 3 inches of cutting. I've double & tripled checked the upper & lower blade guide bearings for proper clearance with the blade before & after each cut. The blade is properly centered on the wheels. I've tensioned the blade to the point of almost breaking it (and everything in-between). Used small, 5 lbs. weights to try and pull the stock through evenly. Hand fed the wood so slowly there was barely a load on the motor---all to no avail.

I'm getting the impression I'm pushing the limits of my current bandsaw setup. I realize there are probably some that are sucessfully cutting this size & type of wood with their 14" bandsaw; however, I'm wondering if I might be able to get much more consistent cuts with a lot less fine-tuning using something like a Grizzly G0513X bandsaw with its much wider ball-bearing blade guides and 3/4" - 1" blade capability?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!

[Paul Zonneveld]

I am in no way an expert, but I would attempt first to slow down on the feed speed and make sure that its as consistent as possible.

[Lee DeRaud]

The only thing that pops to mind immediately is, have you adjusted your fence for drift with the new blade?

[Jesse Cloud]

I think you have a great justification for a new saw, if that's the way you want to go. If you are going to be doing much resawing, I would encourage you to live large and consider a Laguna or MiniMax that can do this without working up a sweat. I don't know the Grizz model you cite, but it would be a real bummer if you wind up with another machine that doesn't delight you every time you use it!

If you want to try to make the 14 incher work, I would try a new blade. Highland Hardware makes a thin kerf blade that gets rave reviews.

[Joe Bourbois]

A 14" bandsaw, especially with a riser, cannot adequately tension a 1/2" blade. I'm sure this is contributing to the blade wander, and might be the sole cause of the blade wander. Try a smaller blade and see if you get better results.

[Scott Donley]

A 14" bandsaw, especially with a riser, cannot adequately tension a 1/2" blade. This might be the case with carbide blades, I don't know, but a 1/2 woodslicer on my 14 with riser tensions fine with room to spare.:D

[Lee DeRaud]

When you say the blade is "wandering", do you mean you get varying thickness across the cut (probably blade tension) or varying thickness along the cut (probably blade drift)?

[Doug Shepard]

Exactly one year ago today I asked that same question
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25068

and finally took the plunge
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26027

Even with the riser block, Carter Guides, HH Woodslicer, and various voodoo incantations I was never able to get very good resaw results beyond 6-7" with the 14" BS. If you do decide to upgrade, you'll never regret it.

[Nancy Laird]

Part of the trouble with resawing is the width of the blade--a narrow blade will wander, no matter what bandsaw you put it into--maybe not very much, but a 1/2" blade just isn't rigid enough to cut the harder woods. You need a BS with a blade about 1-1/2 - 2" wide at least. We have a Hitachi with a 3" blade on it and have never had a problem with wander, not with anything we've pushed through it. Remember, the harder your wood, the wider your blade needs to be.

Nancy

[Eddie Darby]

I have a Delta 14" saw with with a 6" riser kit, plus a 1 1/2 HP motor. I cut 4/4 (1 " thick) Cocobolo and Ebony with no problem.

I have an after-market tension Spring for my saw which helps. I run Timber Wolf low tension Swedish silicon steel blades, 1/2" 3 TPI. I use Cool Blocks, because they support the blade better than bearings. Since I am cutting in straight lines only, I remove a small amount of the set in the teeth, and run it with a zero clearance insert. My wheels are co-planar, and almost all vibration has been eliminated.

If your on a tight budget, then try the blades and a new Spring, and if you have the old guides that can hold Cool Blocks, then that should help.

If you are doing a lot of resawing then I would start saving for one of the big boys.

[Mike Goetzke]

I have a Delta 14" saw with with a 6" riser kit, plus a 1 1/2 HP motor. I cut 4/4 (1 " thick) Cocobolo and Ebony with no problem.

I have an after-market tension Spring for my saw which helps. I run Timber Wolf low tension Swedish silicon steel blades, 1/2" 3 TPI. I use Cool Blocks, because they support the blade better than bearings. Since I am cutting in straight lines only, I remove a small amount of the set in the teeth, and run it with a zero clearance insert. My wheels are co-planar, and almost all vibration has been eliminated.

If your on a tight budget, then try the blades and a new Spring, and if you have the old guides that can hold Cool Blocks, then that should help.

If you are doing a lot of resawing then I would start saving for one of the big boys.

I posted the same problem at WN. My problem was with an 8" wide x 36" ong piece of hard maple on my HF BS. Must have taken 15-20 min. to resaw it and I still had the blade wander too much at the bottom.

Many made the suggestion above - get a Carter spring (about $20) and Timberwolf bands (I already have these).

(Just for my education - why would it be harder to tension the band on a saw with a riser (there should be no match between the strength of the band versus the strength of the cast iron beam)?)

Mike

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

...............(Just for my education - why would it be harder to tension the band on a saw with a riser (there should be no match between the strength of the band versus the strength of the cast iron beam)?)

Mike

The ability of the saw to tension a blade relies on the strength of the spring, and the strength of the saw frame. If the spring is weak, the blade cannot be tensioned enough, if the frame has too much flex, then again, the blade cannot be tensioned enough. The riser blocks introduce more flex into the saw frame, thus you have reduced the ability to tension the blade.

It does sound to me like you are really pushing the limits of this saw.

I agree with the others, if you want to do this fairly often, you need a saw that was designed to handle this kind of thing.

I too have a Hitachi resaw, my blade is63mm wide, about 2.5" and with this sucker tensioned up, it will resaw all day long, anything I can throw at it, even wet, hard lumber (logs).

Nancy, which Hitachi do you have, the CB75F? Great saws eh?

[Ken Lousignont]

I just want to say thank you to everybody for their helpful replies.

First off, I want to clarify a couple of things. First, I'm trying to cut some bubinga & cocobolo that are approx. 5/4" thick, 8 1/2" wide and 35-40" long into fairly consistent slices 3/16" thick (+/- 1/32"), 8 1/2" wide and 35-40" long. I'll use 4 bookmatched pieces to make the back & sides of one guitar.

When I say wandering, the cut appears to be going straight on the top, near the top blade guides, but it can be off as much as an 1/8"-3/16" on the bottom!! Of course, when the cut gets this far off, the friction of the blade being forced that far away from its correct path stalls the motor. Actually, I'm amazed the blade doesn't snap with that much side tension between the wood and the lower guide bearings. Of course, at that point it's almost impossible to hold the wood next to the fence. I've tried every entry angle, every possible feed rate/pressure, and it will always start wandering 1 or 2 inches into the cut (please read my first post for more details). FWIW, I practiced cutting some 2" x 10" x 40" fir into some 3/16" thick slices (10" wide, 40" long) and everything worked perfectly. However, I realize there's a big difference between fir and bubinga/cocobolo.

I've already decided to not put any more money into blades, guides, or tension springs. I'll only be resawing approx. 5 or 6 times a year, so that doesn't quite justify a Laguna or Minimax. However, I am willing to spring for possibly a Rikon 18" 10-352 or Grizzly G0513X (17"), G0514X (19"). Does anybody know if I'll have a reasonably good chance of success resawing accurately through 8 1/2" of cocobolo or bubinga using a $20-$25, 1", 2/3 hook blade using one of these mid-priced bandsaws?

Thanks!!

[Norman Hitt]

Ken, I can't help with a definitave answer about the Griz or Rikon saws, but I can maybe give you some idea of why the blade starts to wander after 2 or 3 inches into the cut. By the time the blade goes that far into that HARD wood, the blade has started to heat up and therefore stretches a small amount, which in essence lessens the tension and then the wander starts. You didn't mention what brand of blades you were using, (or if you did, I missed it). You will definitely need a high quality blade for this type of operation, and one other thing you might try is to intermittantly spray the blade (on both sides as it is moving) with "PAM" (yes, the antistick cooking spray from your kitchen), as it will lubricate the blade keeping it cooler and minimizing the "Stretch" of the blade which will keep the tension more consistant, but won't have an ill effect on the wood.

Hope this helps, and you get it working to your satisfaction.

[Eddie Darby]

Get the horses then, the more the merrier!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21857

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Ken, I can't help with a definitave answer about the Griz or Rikon saws, but I can maybe give you some idea of why the blade starts to wander after 2 or 3 inches into the cut. By the time the blade goes that far into that HARD wood, the blade has started to heat up and therefore stretches a small amount, which in essence lessens the tension and then the wander starts. You didn't mention what brand of blades you were using, (or if you did, I missed it). You will definitely need a high quality blade for this type of operation, and one other thing you might try is to intermittantly spray the blade (on both sides as it is moving) with "PAM" (yes, the antistick cooking spray from your kitchen), as it will lubricate the blade keeping it cooler and minimizing the "Stretch" of the blade which will keep the tension more consistant, but won't have an ill effect on the wood.

Hope this helps, and you get it working to your satisfaction.

Yep, the PAM trick works great for me, my resaw blade is so wide, that even if there is nothing wrong, it builds up a fair bit of friction, the PAM just makes it all slip slide away!

BTW, I sent you a PM with a review of one of the Grizzly saws, but it is at another forum, so I cannot post it here.

Cheers!

[Al Willits]

Considering some of us have to play with the cards we're dealt, I've got the Delta 14" saw and have a 6" riser for it, its the 3/4hp version and may or may not be underpowered a bit, not sure if the 1hp motor would be worth it.
But my question would be, with some changes like maybe the cool blocks and Carter spring, a good set up on the saw, and Timberwolf blades, how thick of resawing could one expect to do on a 14" saw?

A bigger saw would be nice, but to many things are needed first.
tia

Al

[Mike Wilkins]

This is exactly the reason why I switched from a Delta 14" bandsaw with a 3/4 horse motor, to a Laguna LT18 with a 3 horse motor.
I suspect that you may be currently underpowered in the motor department.
I also suspect that a timber that hard is crying out for carbide.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

This is exactly the reason why I switched from a Delta 14" bandsaw with a 3/4 horse motor, to a Laguna LT18 with a 3 horse motor.
I suspect that you may be currently underpowered in the motor department.
I also suspect that a timber that hard is crying out for carbide.

I agree with that, but my BIG resaw bandsaw, has a little 100V, 13.5 amp motor, and I've yet to slow that sucker down............

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/bandsaw/motor_plate.jpg

Now it does have a gear box on it :D

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/bandsaw/motor.jpg

My point is that the saw and motor have to match the job.

Cheers!

[Frank Fusco]

When I bought my 14" Grizzly G0555, I deferred on the riser kit. That decision was made purely on a gut sense that a bandsaw designed to cut 6" max. was not designed to cut 12" with the addition of a riser. There are bigger, more powerful models designed for that kind of resawing. When I resaw hard-hardwoods (osage orange is common for me), I use a 3/4"X3tpi Timberwolf and it does a fine job. Adjustments are critical and I have to admit I don't always get it right. Can be :mad: frustrating. My point is, don't ask more of your machine than it was designed to give.

[Blaine Harrison]

Lots of responses about the Carter Springs. I've checked the Carter website, but don't see springs in their product lists. Can anybody tell me where to buy one of these $20 springs? I think that would be a great upgrade for a reasonable price.

Blaine

[Mike Cutler]

I just want to say thank you to everybody for their helpful replies.

First off, I want to clarify a couple of things. First, I'm trying to cut some bubinga & cocobolo that are approx. 5/4" thick, 8 1/2" wide and 35-40" long into fairly consistent slices 3/16" thick (+/- 1/32"), 8 1/2" wide and 35-40" long. I'll use 4 bookmatched pieces to make the back & sides of one guitar.

When I say wandering, the cut appears to be going straight on the top, near the top blade guides, but it can be off as much as an 1/8"-3/16" on the bottom!! Of course, when the cut gets this far off, the friction of the blade being forced that far away from its correct path stalls the motor. Actually, I'm amazed the blade doesn't snap with that much side tension between the wood and the lower guide bearings. Of course, at that point it's almost impossible to hold the wood next to the fence. I've tried every entry angle, every possible feed rate/pressure, and it will always start wandering 1 or 2 inches into the cut (please read my first post for more details). FWIW, I practiced cutting some 2" x 10" x 40" fir into some 3/16" thick slices (10" wide, 40" long) and everything worked perfectly. However, I realize there's a big difference between fir and bubinga/cocobolo.

I've already decided to not put any more money into blades, guides, or tension springs. I'll only be resawing approx. 5 or 6 times a year, so that doesn't quite justify a Laguna or Minimax. However, I am willing to spring for possibly a Rikon 18" 10-352 or Grizzly G0513X (17"), G0514X (19"). Does anybody know if I'll have a reasonably good chance of success resawing accurately through 8 1/2" of cocobolo or bubinga using a $20-$25, 1", 2/3 hook blade using one of these mid-priced bandsaws?

Thanks!!

Ken.
I have the 18" Rikon 10-340, and I have no problems resawing with a 1" 2/3 Varipitch Lennox blade.
I would like to have Stu's "Big Blue" or the BS that Nancy has( Nice bandsaw by the way), but....
You are having the same problens that I had with my Jet 14". I did everything I could,and spent half again as much on aftermarket parts to try to make it resaw properly. It just wouldn't do it with any consistency. I believe that your blade is barreling due to heat, and lack of power.

My advice. Buy the nicest biggest bandsaw that you can afford, or just barely not afford. You won't regret it. I have never seen a post where someone wished that they had a smaller bandsaw.

[Mike Cutler]

Lots of responses about the Carter Springs. I've checked the Carter website, but don't see springs in their product lists. Can anybody tell me where to buy one of these $20 springs? I think that would be a great upgrade for a reasonable price.

Blaine

Woodcraft used to have them. Another option is Cobra Coils, by Ittura Designs. Woodcraft has these also, or just buy them from Louis Itturra, at Ittura Designs. They are a big improvement over the stock springs.The stock spring on my Jet 14" only developed about 8500psi of force. The Cobra's topped out at about 13,500.

[Al Willits]

""""""""
Now it does have a gear box on it :D
"""""""""

Brings up the question, would reducing the pulley on the motor or increasing the pulley on the saw make for a slower, but more powerful cut?

Al

[Nancy Laird]

I too have a Hitachi resaw, my blade is63mm wide, about 2.5" and with this sucker tensioned up, it will resaw all day long, anything I can throw at it, even wet, hard lumber (logs).

Nancy, which Hitachi do you have, the CB75F? Great saws eh?

Stu, Yes, we have the CB75F, and we LOVE it:D . We resawed some curly maple recently for a violin maker, and it just went through that maple like a hot knife through butter. It does a great job. David was resawing some alder into 1/4" pieces and it only took about 3 passes through the drum sander to make them perfect.

Nancy

[Mike Goetzke]

Lots of responses about the Carter Springs. I've checked the Carter website, but don't see springs in their product lists. Can anybody tell me where to buy one of these $20 springs? I think that would be a great upgrade for a reasonable price.

Blaine

Try this:

http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=155&cat_id=16

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=296

or this:

Contact Louis Iturra (Iturra Design; 888-722-7078; kalll@comcast.net (kalll@comcast.net) ). He has everything you need (including things you didn't list such as shims, high tension spring, ...) at reasonable prices and will not disappoint you. Make sure to request a copy of his catalog. He's a nice and knowledgeable guy who will help you with your BS. In fact, he is the one who develops the guides with bearing (he calls them bandrollers). I don't think he has a web site.