Take it easy on me........... PLEASE!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, I'm not trying to start anything here, I just would like some honest opinions on this.

I have a Pentz designed cyclone, that I built, I'm very happy with it, it really sucks :D

It was completed in July of 2005, so I've been using it for more than a year.

I kept count of the number of times I emptied the dust bin, when I hit 10 times, I pounded (gently) and cleaned with compressed air (again, carefully, not too close to the stack or too high pressure) my filter stack and then I let it sit over night. The next morning I cleaned out my clean out, and I got a startlingly small amount of dust.

You can see the post I made about this a while back here.........

Dust in my filters..........cyclone (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=42818)


I have the two of the Donaldson Torit P527080-461-436ULTRA-WEB FR CARTRIDGE Ultra-Web Flame Retardant Cartridge with nanofiber technology for Downflo (2.0-inch pleat).

https://www.donaldson.com/imagelib/products/photo/284/p527080-461-436.jpg

In this Document (http://www.donaldson.com/en/industrialair/literature/000220.pdf) they say..........


BIA Rating
U,S,G, and C.
Start-up efficiency of 99.9% on 0.2-2µm.

Fractional Efficiency
99.999% on a 0.5 µm dust particles.

Now are these filters what I want for my cyclone? They seem to have worked very well, as the cyclone has, I was down in the Dungeon tonight doing some clean up and planning for my next project, and I snapped these pics of the inside of the filter stack.

48232

48233
It has been nearly 3 weeks since I cleaned out the filter stack for the other thread, and I've not touched it since. The dust bin is nearing half full, so I've used it a little.

Sorry they are crappy cell phone pics, but to me, the filters still look blue, so this can only mean that they have not seen a lot of dust...? I was honestly expecting a cake of dust on the filters, but they seem fairly clean to me.........(?)

I only overfilled the cyclone once, and that was with some large sized chips (doing dado cuts on the TS) I only found one chip in the filter stack clean out at that time.........

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/cyclone/cyclone_full1.JPG

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/cyclone/filter_stack_clean_out_one_chip.JPG

I'm asking, because of some recent DC posts have made me curious, and wanting to ask more questions.

Did I pick the right filters?

Are they working like they should?

What kind of life should I expect out of them, 3 years, 5 years.........?

Again, I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm relating my real life experiences, and I'm asking a few simple questions, like what the heck a "µm" is :D

TIA

Cheers!

[jeremy levine]

Are you asking "are my filters not catching enough ?"

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm asking if these are the right filters, is 0.5 µm a small enough number for catching the bad particles that stay in your lungs?

Is the BIA rating the right one for dust collection?

I'm very concerned about air quality, as my shop is a Dungeon, underground, and I use the cyclone all the time, as well as an aircleaner and I run my exhaust extractor when I'm doing anything dusty, and or when I leave the shop (It's on a timer).

Cheers!

[Bob Childress]

The efficiency of 99.99% at 0.5 micro-metres is not quite as good as HEPA (99.97% at 0.3 micro-metres) but pretty darn good. What's more, I would suggest that the lack of dust build-up is a valid predictor that your system is very efficient.

Just my take on a quick reading of the standards (I need to get a life).:)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Bob.

Also, what is the diff between....

"Start-up efficiency of 99.9% on 0.2-2µm."

and.....

"Fractional Efficiency 99.999% on a 0.5 µm"

I would think, that at the start up of use, the efficiency would be worse, until some dust hits the filters, plugging some holes........ or am I thinking about bag filters here....?

Curiosity more than anything else.

Cheers!

[Bob Childress]

Beats me. :rolleyes: But here is what I understand (:confused: ) that the particle size mentioned (e.g., 0.5 micro-metres) is the most penetrating particle and that the particle sizes both above and below are captured at higher efficiency. At least that is what it looks like to me. Maybe the efficiency changes after the air is up to full flow.

Or maybe, somebody else had better take over from here. :D

[Don Baer]

Stu,
I'm just speculating but perhaps your cyclone is doing a better job of capturing the fine dust with the cleaner filters. I'll bet if you were to check airflow with clean filteres vs caked filters youd find that your moving more air with the clean one therefore your cyclone is more effecient.

[Dennis Peacock]

To answer your question Stu.....Yes. Those are perfectly fine. ;)

Don't worry too much about babying them. My neighbor cleans filters and those are included in what all he cleans and he uses 165PSI in a machine to totally cleans a filter back to 98% total usage and effeciency. I haven't bought a single filter in 3 years. :D Nice neighbor I have. :cool:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input!

Cheers!

[John Renzetti]

Hi Stu, Thanks for posting those pictures. I'd say the cyclone is working as advertised and those filters are catching 99.9% of that .2micron and above dust that remains. I think Bill recommended these type filters for people with lung ailments. In your enclosed space I'd say they are perfect. What do these filters cost?
The BIA Class C and G ratings are from the German testing institute-Berufsgenossenschaftliches Institut für Arbeitsschutz. I might have this backwards but class C means it gets 99.9% of the fine dust .1 or .2micron. G is for 99.5%. They also measure the cfm of the collector under unfavorable conditions, to see if the fine dust build-up is having a very detrimental effect on the cfm.
Interesting stuff.
take care,
John
take care,
John

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

.............What do these filters cost? ............
Cough, cough...........ahem..........ah......... well, they wanted something sick like $320 EACH for them here, in Japan, and a SIX MONTH lead time, so I was going to order them from the US, and a guy on another WW board stepped up and told me he worked for a LARGE company that buys a TON of filters from Donaldson each month (large national corporation), and he would see if he could get me a price....... and I have a buddy that imports thing to Japan, and he just happened to have a container coming over, that was not even 3/4 full......

I think they were like $60 each.....delivered to my door...... :rolleyes:

I don't get deals like that very often, so when they come by, I jump all over them :D

I should have ordered FOUR of them.....

Cheers!

[Walt Caza]

Hi Stu,
Thanks for pics. My research before recently buying an Oneida Pro2000
cyclone (yes, pics coming) says that filter efficiency is a moving target.
The specifications offered vary from rating clean, virgin filters all the way
to ratings based on seasoned filters that have accumulated a dust cake.
Horse sense tells us cleaner allows more airflow, but does not trap as
small a particle... and the more loaded, the more resistence to flow,
but traps much finer 'wood flour'.

So, to me, as we use these filters, we go from higher flow and less fine
capture to less flow and finer capture. We are always working within this
range. Published specs also occur within this range. I am not sure we
can ever be as sure about our filter performance as we would prefer.

Oneida website offers third party ASHRAE test specs on my own filter.
Overall a bit bewildering, but shows a trend. My filter, as new, passes
more fine stuff than hoped, and gets much better with loading.
I guess this is typical. Too much loading, and flow bogs down.
Feels damned if you do, and don't...

My cyclone comes with a dial pressure guage, tube to be installed inside
blower outlet before filter. Goal is to read filter resistence to flow as new,
(as SP) and watch it climb as it needs cleaning. Also, after many cleanings,
it will indicate that filter does not come so far back, and needs
expensive replacing. Time will tell how well this works.
(have not installed guage as yet, just glad to be up and running finally)

Sorry for rambling, my 2 cent summary, is that these numbers being
discussed vary within a range.
(ex: see a waterfall in drier weather, it might be a trickle...see it
after rain, it may resemble the heavy flow on the pretty postcards)

Walt
ps I am impressed with your triple dc approach !

[Scott Vigder]

[quote=Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]
Dust in my filters..........cyclone (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=42818)

Isn't that a 50's song by Sha-Na-Na? "Dust, in my filters......."

[Matt Warfield]

I think they were like $60 each.....delivered to my door...... :rolleyes:

I don't get deals like that very often, so when they come by, I jump all over them :D

I should have ordered FOUR of them.....

Cheers!

Nice gloat Stu. I lucked out picked up four, slightly dinged, UltraWeb filters off the popular auction site for a grand total of $52.47 shipped. At 262 Sq Ft each, I have a feeling air flow won't be an issue.

I love finding things that are listed in the wrong place. :D

[Bill White]

What the heck is that yellow thing you're holdin' in the picture?
Bill

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

What the heck is that yellow thing you're holdin' in the picture?
Bill

That is one of my most prized possessions down in the Dungeon............

All is revealed here....

Stu's Vahhse (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=34224)