Table saw opinions anyone?

[Gene Collison]

I am thinking of replacing my Delta Professional saw 36-650 with sheet metal wings with a bit more saw. I am thinking in terms of a Powermatic 64a left tilt, or the new Jet Supersaw which is a right tilt. Also, a local dealer has a new non X model Delta Contractor saw with cast iron wings and a Biesemeyer fence that he wants $799.00 for. The new X model of this saw is $999. Do you guys have any suggestions or recommendations that will help me make a decision? I understand that the Jet Supersaws have had some problems, any info on this? Thanks...

Gene

[Ron Meadows]

Don't know how you feel about mail order, but why not upgrade to a saw that you won't wish you could replace somewhere down the line? The Grizzly 1023S or 1023SL, if you prefer left tilt, are 3 HP 220V cabinet saws with Biesemeyer clone fences. I bought mine about 3 years ago and have absolutely no complaints with it. Plenty of power, smaller footprint than a contractors saw, and I have yet to readjust the fence for parallelism to the sawblade.

just a thought,

Ron

[Jim DeLaney]

Don't know how you feel about mail order, but why not upgrade to a saw that you won't wish you could replace somewhere down the line? The Grizzly 1023S or 1023SL, if you prefer left tilt, are 3 HP 220V cabinet saws with Biesemeyer clone fencesRon


I concur. Another choice would be the Shop Fox 1677, which is essentially the same saw. I've had mine for a few months now, and can't say enough good things about it. I bought the Shop Fox instead of the Grizz, mainly because a have a local dealer, and parts/service (even though I hope not to ever need either) are readily available. I paid $999, and Battels Hardware delivered it assembled, set up, and free of cosmoline for $35.00. Great deal, I thought.

I would dissuade you from the PM 64A, though. It's an okay saw - a Delta contractors clone, just like all the others - but since it's what a Powermatic rep referred to as "an off shore knock-off, not a real Powermatic." (whether true or not), I had great reservations about.

BTW, I did have a PM 63, though, (nearly the same, but right tilt) that gave me great service for the ten-pluss years I had it.

[Charles McKinley]

If your current saw is servicable I would shop the used market for a while. Woodweb has a huge classifieds section and auction services that deal with wood working tools. Also on the new Deltas there are some bonuses being offered on the X models that seem to make the extra $200 worth it, especially considering the old line is now obselete.

Make sure you figure in shipping if you go the ebay route. SWMBO stopped the road trip for my PM 66 and it cost me and extra $300 for the shipping.

Doing it over again I would look long and hard at the Griz 1023 SL and shop Fox as mentioned above. Now that I have actually seen them I probably would have put the extra money towards blades and the Jointech Smart miter.

[Gene Collison]

I concur. Another choice would be the Shop Fox 1677, which is essentially the same saw. I've had mine for a few months now, and can't say enough good things about it. I bought the Shop Fox instead of the Grizz, mainly because a have a local dealer, and parts/service (even though I hope not to ever need either) are readily available. I paid $999, and Battels Hardware delivered it assembled, set up, and free of cosmoline for $35.00. Great deal, I thought.

I would dissuade you from the PM 64A, though. It's an okay saw - a Delta contractors clone, just like all the others - but since it's what a Powermatic rep referred to as "an off shore knock-off, not a real Powermatic." (whether true or not), I had great reservations about.

BTW, I did have a PM 63, though, (nearly the same, but right tilt) that gave me great service for the ten-pluss years I had it.

Jim and Ron,

Nothing against Grizzly or Shopfox, I'm know they are great products. I should have mentioned that mobility is a factor in my decision. Like most people in Ca. I work in my garage and park one car in it in the evening. I could put a cabinet saw on wheels but would have to deal with 220V which I do have in the garage but would have to make up an extension cord or rewire. My current saw is mobile and I plug it into a Fein vacuum for dust collection. Somewhat mickey mouse but it is doing the job ok. Jim, the 64A on the showroom floor at Abbey is marked made in USA! But the newer ones probably are a knockoff since Jet bought them out.

Gene

[Lloyd Robins]

Hi! I have a Jet contractor saw with a cast iron wing on one side and a Bench Dog Router table on the other side. I am in the same situation as you are except I have finally convinced the LOML that I need most of the garage. I really like this set-up, but I do occasionally lust after a cabinet saw. However, with the cost of electricians around here I haven't even dared to ask what putting in 220v would cost. I have heard that the Jet Super saw is a nice saw except that the fence is just the Jetfence slightly dolled up, and lot of people don't like it. Let us know what you decide.

[Richard McComas]

I am thinking of replacing my Delta Professional saw 36-650 with sheet metal wings with a bit more saw. I am thinking in terms of a Powermatic 64a left tilt, or the new Jet Supersaw which is a right tilt. Also, a local dealer has a new non X model Delta Contractor saw with cast iron wings and a Biesemeyer fence that he wants $799.00 for. The new X model of this saw is $999. Do you guys have any suggestions or recommendations that will help me make a decision? I understand that the Jet Supersaws have had some problems, any info on this? Thanks...

Gene
Wilke has the Bridgewood 10” left tilt saw on sale for $1299.00, of course you have to factor in the shipping depending on where you live. Some say Wilke’s shipping is a little high but you can have any shipping Co. do the shipping, shop around for the best price.

In the latest Fine Woodworking magazine (# 165) there is a small blurb on the saw.

It starts like this:
Wilke Machinery Co. recently introduced the Bridgewood BW-10LTS, a left tilt 10 table saw. This saw is refined to an exceptional degree and rivals the quality of the Delta and the Powermatic 66 table saw.

I have delt with Wilke and find them to be a good company to deal with.

You might consider this saw in your research.

Rich.

[Earl Reid]

Hi, Gene, I got my PM 64A in 1990 to replace a early 60s Sears. The only problem with the sears was the fence, as many others have complained about. The main problem I've had with the 64A PM is controling the depth of cut, there has alway been a lot of slop in the mechinism and the nut that holds the knob on falls off. Also the tilting screw is hard to turn. The first couple of years I called the Co, but didn't get much help. I really like the Vaga fence. I wouldn't buy another PM.. I gave the Sears saw away and got it back 4 yrs ago and the gave it to my brother in law. We put a after market fence on it. Its now a better saw than the PM64a.
Earl

[scott spencer]

Hi Gene - I concur with those who are suggesting taking the leap to a cabinet saw if there's any way you can run 220v. Certainly the Griz and SF are great values in that category. The Bridgewood gets positive comments from those who've seen it or used it, but the s&h from PA can be expensive. General International also offers an entry level cabinet saw (50-260) in the same price range as the BW that comes with the Canadian-made General T-fence that's made in association with Biesemeyer.

If 220v is not a possibility, the value of the SS becomes the debate, because for the money it doesn't offer much of a fence upgrade to what you have now. The addition of the cast iron wings would be nice, but I doubt you'll notice much power increase. If there are electrical constraints, I'd have to vote for the PM64 is it's really a US made version. If not, the GI 50-185 is a nice Taiwanese made choice that comes with the General fence for ~ $650, leaving money for a new blade or accessory.

Let us know what you end up doing...

[Jim Martin]

I am thinking of replacing my Delta Professional saw 36-650

Gene
Don't replace your Delta with another cheap saw, you won't be satisfied. Save your money and get a quality cabinet saw (Unisaw, General, Powermatic or Jet). You have a saw now that can do all the basics, so why settle for a Supersaw or a Grizzly that just gets you a very marginal step up? The Supersaw is just a Dewalt clone and you will soon want a real fence for the Grizzly that will cost you hundreds of dollars to upgrade ($300 to $1000).

[Ron Meadows]

Jim,

Not to hijack this guys thread but what exactly do you mean about the Grizzly having a marginal fence? Mine has a Biesemeyer clone (1023S) that I set up when new and haven't had to adjust in almost 3 years. I'd venture to guess that you've never even seen a Grizzly 1023, let alone actually used one.




Ron

[Jim Martin]

Jim,

Not to hijack this guys thread but what exactly do you mean about the Grizzly having a marginal fence?

Ron
You sound pretty deFENCEive to me. (smile) But I have seen a Grizzly fence, the Biese clone and wasn't impressed. The fit and finish struck me as the rest of the saw and that was just adequate. If it was his first saw then he would probably be very happy with it. But the gentleman was trying to move up and I don't view trading one adequate saw for another as a step up. Just my opinion. But look at the magazine reviews and see which saws come out on top, with Grizzly the comments are usually something to the effect: A good value for those on a limited budget. It is like buying a Buick Park Avenue or Dodge Neon. When you are young you buy the Neon, after you are more financially secure in life you get a Park Avenue. Both will get you where you are going.
BTW, since you accused me of having never seen or used a Grizzly have you done the same with a Biesemeyer or Unifence? I happen to prefer the Unifence but I guess they don't offer that as a Grizzly clone.

[Byron Trantham]

with Jim Martin. I had a Craftsman contractor's saw for about 7 years and replaced with a Unisaw about 10 months ago. I have NO complaints with this saw. Height adjustment can be locked down, the fence (mine is a Beisemeyer) is rock solid, the arbor uses two wrenches to install and remove the blade - no more jam stick, 3 hp instead of a questionable 1 1/2 hp, great dust collection, mobile and for what it is worth, every time I use this saw I think back on my Craftsman and wonder why it took me so long long to get a good quality table saw. I don't see me replacing this saw - ever.

[Ron Meadows]

Uncle!!! If spending more money for something makes you feel like you have better equipment then I'm not going to argue. I have seen/played with both the Unifence and the "real" Biesemeyer. The Unifence is nice and I can't see any differences between my Shop Fox Classic and the Biesemeyer other than the color.


Ron

[Kent Cori]

Gene,

I have exactly the same constraints that you have. My shop is in my two-car garage that routinely houses, amazingly enough, two cars every night. I have a Griz 1023SL mounted on a Shop Fox mobile base. I just move it out when I need it which takes under 10 seconds. The mobile base works great and takes very little effort to move. 220V power is usually provided by a heavy duty extension cord which cost under $15 to make. The cord on the machine is long enough that you could also probably move it to the outlet location. The cord comes without a plug so that you can add any style that you need.

The Griz/Shop Fox (either version) are outstanding machines and my SL has served me well for more than a year. Despite the claim of a previous poster (does he own a 1023S/SL?), the Shop Fox Classic fence is just fine. I've never encountered any deflection once I had it adjusted properly. About the only time I could see that as being a potential concern would be if you were cutting large, heavy sheet goods. Again, I doubt it would be a real issue as I've never noticed any deflection even in this situation. However, if you wanted to be sure, just add a clamp to the rear rail on the outboard side of the fence to keep it from moving.

Considering how much money you are planning to spend, do you really want to settle for something that is only slightly better than your Delta and that you will likely want to upgrade later? A mobile 3 hp cabinet saw with an excellent fence and a Forrest WWII blade just can't be beat by any contractors saw.

[Charles McKinley]

Lets put some numbers in here from the Wood MagazineOctober 2003 issue 151.

Fence deflection
General Bies. clone 1/64 Top Saw $1950
Shop Fox their fence design 1/64 $1350
delta unifence no numbers but rated second $1550
Jet bies clone 3/64 $1500
PM66 Beisemeyer 3/64 $2100
Griz old bies clone 1/16 Bill Crofutt said improvments to address this have been made. Top Value $1125

All saws had less than or equal to .001" arbor flange run out, and less than .001" vibration in any direction.

I can add lots of toys to the griz for $835 several of these toys would be needed by the General or any of the other saws also.

[Gene Collison]

Lets put some numbers in here from the Wood MagazineOctober 2003 issue 151.

Fence deflection
General Bies. clone 1/64 Top Saw $1950
Shop Fox their fence design 1/64 $1350
delta unifence no numbers but rated second $1550
Jet bies clone 3/64 $1500
PM66 Beisemeyer 3/64 $2100
Griz old bies clone 1/16 Bill Crofutt said improvments to address this have been made. Top Value $1125

All saws had less than or equal to .001" arbor flange run out, and less than .001" vibration in any direction.

I can add lots of toys to the griz for $835 several of these toys would be needed by the General or any of the other saws also.

You guys are really great, I finally woke up and now see anything but a cabinet saw would be a sideways move that would get me nowhere. I'll make up a 220V extension cord and buy one. I'm not sure which one yet but it doesn't sound like I can go too far wrong with any of them. I'll get a dolly for it and I'm all set. Thanks to all who responded.........

Gene

[scott spencer]

Gene - If you're going to make a saw change, you might as well get the one you'll grow old with. Enjoy the hunt!