Can you run a shop without a Table saw?

[Jason Ochoada]

Hey Guys,

I currently have a full shop, PM66, DJ20, Minimax Bandsaw, planer etc. My shop is only 13 by 20 and since my son has gotten older I have been using the shop less and less. We have gotten interested in camping and I could like to be able to store a camper. Unfortunately The camper can't be stored outside in the neighborhood and I don't want to give up my parking spot in the garage other than short periods of time (While I am in the shop). But in order to be able to do that I need to move out the table saw. Wondering if my Minimax can pick up the slack? Guess I would have to depend on the miter saw much more and learn how to dado with the Router??Or go back to a smaller saw like the Ryobe BT3000 I used to have.

All input would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jason

[Rich Person]

You could, but may have to get some additional equipment. If you need to rip a 48" sheet in half, you would need a guided circular saw as that wouldn't fit into the bandsaw. I was considering doing this for awhile, but I wasn't totally happy with the accuracy of the cutting angle of the guided saw systems. You have to try and square the blade to the foot of the saw, and that is not trivial. I found I had to keep making test cuts each time I changed the angle. If you only do 90 degree cuts, then this shouldn't be a problem. I broke down and bought the TS because it just did several things better than any other combination I could come up with.

[Bruce Benjamin]

The EZ Smart is the obvious answer to this question. http://www.eurekazone.com/ The website is being overhauled but still usable. You should also check out the Sawmill Creek Manufacturer forum for the EZ Smart. I have a General International contractor saw but use my EZ Smart far more than the saw anymore. Many, many other EZ Smart owners are doing the same thing and some have already sold their table saws. For most tasks I find it faster, more accurate, easier, and far, far more safe. There are other saw guides out there but the EZ Smart is much more than just a saw guide and definitely the most versatile. If you have any questions feel free to send me a PM or check out the manufacturers forum. Dino, the owner and inventor offers the best customer service I've ever heard of and the guys on the EZ forum are always willing to offer friendly help.

Bruce

[Barry Beech]

Another thought would be to sell the DJ20 and the planer and get a combo machine.

Just a thought.

[Ian Barley]

Jason

The answer is, as nearly always, it depends. It depends on a couple of things but mainly the kind of work you like to do and the way that you like to work.

If you tend not to work too much with sheet goods and are willing to make allownace for the possibility of blade drift then the bandsaw will do a pretty good job and there are plenty of people doing good work with a bandsaw but no tablesaw. You may spend a bit more time at the planer but as it is available that does not seem like a tragedy.

If you work with sheet goods a lot then there are a variety of ways that you can deal with them safely and efficiently without a TS. One has already been suggested and there are other manufacturers (Festool, Mafell and I am sure others) who offer guided rail systems which will achieve good results, and similar results can be achieved with an aluminium straight edge and a length of masonite.

Most woodworkers of my acquaintance who are serious hobbiests or woodwork for a living will consider the TS to be a central tool in an efficient workshop. That is not the same as saying that it is irreplacable. Maybe the thing to do would be to find a space to store it away for a while so that you can achieve your other storage goals but so that it can be retrieved if your find yourself bereft at its departure. That way you get the question answered by the person best qualified - you.

[Jerry Olexa]

Many diff approaches you could do but to me, the TS is the crucial core of a workshop. A DJ20 tales up lots of space for example. Mobile bases would also help. Time w your son is important and worth adjusting for IMHO...

[tod evans]

jason, i think both ian and barry offer very sound advice, bruce does also if you actually intend to cut sheetgoods without using your tablesaw. being that you`re not building much right now just scooting the equipment on mobile bases may give you the space for a while? selling tools is just about sacreligious to me;) .......unless it`s to upgrade....02 tod

[richard poitras]

Jason I think you should give up the min max and keep the table saw, and by the way I would be more than happy to help you out in getting ride of that band saw!:) ;)

[Jason Ochoada]

Thanks guys,

You guys are awesome. A lot of good points made, and well taken. I forgot about the angled cuts and sheetgood work. I often make the first cuts with my circular saw and then use the tablesaw. This is going to take some more thought. And the more I think the more it seems I need to keep the saw. Everything I have is on moble bases right now, the problem is the PM66 has the long rails and it's a space hog, I justified that because I thought someday I would move out of my suburban garage and have a nice big shop. Realistically That day might not come. And I did price out shorter rails but they are really expensive!! Thought about cutting mine down but what if I needed them someday??


Thanks again
Jason

[scott spencer]

I'd prefer to keep the TS and think of other ways to save space. Do you have a separate router table? If so, perhaps a RT mounted in your TS would make sense. A planer and CMS can share one cart. Benchtop tools can be put on a lazy susan. Necessity is the mother of all invention, and my shop seems to be necessity's mother....:rolleyes: You'll find a way!

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Have you looked into off-site storage for the camper?

[Jason Ochoada]

More great ideas, I do have the router in the table of the saw already, and I may have to resort to storage for the camper. Most places want 40 bucks a month though for outside storage....

[Jim Becker]

If you keep the TS, make it mobile and buy a set of short rails (so you can put the long ones away for the future). Mobility is the key to your situation, IMHO.

[Art Mulder]

I may have to resort to storage for the camper. Most places want 40 bucks a month though for outside storage....

options...

1- take pictures and post them so we can make more informed suggestions
2- add on to the garage
3- make friends with someone who lives in the country and see if they will store it for you -- maybe you can trade, give them the camper for 2 weeks a year, and they store it for you.
4- sell the camper. Instead, rent one for 2-4 weeks a year, or however often you use it. Then you don't have to store it, nor deal with depreciation, or maintenance.
5- bite the bullet and store the car outside.
6- is it a tent-trailer? If so, it only needs a limited amount of vertical height. Can you build a loft that fits over the camper? rearrange the garage to put as much storage as possible on top of the camper in a loft?
7- move.

Note that nowhere do I suggest getting rid of the tablesaw. I'm just a hobbiest, but the TS was the first major tool I bought, and I wouldn't want to be without one.

[Art Mulder]

And I did price out shorter rails but they are really expensive!!

*cough*, and um, how much does the camper cost? :rolleyes:

You need to take the big picture approach, Jason. When you are camper shopping, you need to add in all the other costs. So, if you need to buy shorter rails for the TS, or more mobile bases for the other tools, or build different storage in the garage, or get extra home insurance to cover the camper, or monthly storage fees, or, or, or, .... it all needs to be added up and considered before you make the purchase.

...art

ps: in my last post, I was assuming that you already owned a camper/trailer. But after reading your other comments I'm not sure if you already own a camper or not.

[Mark Rios]

Jason, do you have a Biese fence? If so, you might check out the scratch and dent and closeout section of the Biesemeyer site. I was directed there from the kind folks here and I got a short set of rails for $92 delivered.

This is the closeout specials page: http://www.biesemeyer.com/specials/index.htm

This page gets updated every so often but they get stuff inbetween the updates. I called them and a very nice lady searched around for me and came up with the deal for me.

Just a thought.

[Cecil Arnold]

Jason, I think another thing you have to consider is how long your son is going to remain interested in camping. If he is 10 now, by the time he is 15 (or sooner) he will discover girls and all bets are off.

[Jesse Cloud]

To tell the truth, I'm using my tablesaw less and less these days. I do almost all my ripping on the bandsaw - rip 1/32 proud and clean it up on the jointer. I would never cut sheet goods on the tablesaw again now that I have the Festool guided saw. So that pretty much leaves dadoes and crosscuts, which could certainly be done with a router and a well tuned miter saw.

[Steve Wargo]

I haven't owned a table saw for over 2 years. Do I wish I had one at times? Heck yeah. Will I ever put one permanently back in my shop. Not a chance.

[Frank Fusco]

Even though my table saw is one of the least used tools in my shop, if I had to give up everything but one stationary tool, the one remaining would probably be the ole TS. With it you can rip, cross-cut, sand, dadoe and scare the family cat. What more could you ask?

[Tim Devlin]

There is an article in workbench this month that talks about a useable 5x10 workshop...maybe you could do something like that.

Tim

[Don Baer]

Can you run a shop without one, SURE, I got by for over 20 years. Would I ever again NOPE.

[Lee DeRaud]

And I did price out shorter rails but they are really expensive!! Thought about cutting mine down but what if I needed them someday??If you actually find yourself needing the long rails someday, would they be that much more expensive then than the short ones are now?

[Burt Waddell]

Jason,

I saw where someone had cut the rails on their saw and added a hinge. There was someway that the cutoff portion of the rails swung up and reattached for full length usage when needed. 'Sorry I don't remember more details.

I also like Bruce's idea of the EZ Smart. Several people have sold their table saw and are using the EZ Smart.

Burt

[Norman Hitt]

If you actually find yourself needing the long rails someday, would they be that much more expensive then than the short ones are now?

Now, now Lee, have you ever seen anything get Cheaper about the time you really NEEDED it?:rolleyes: :D (at least around my house, everything seems to Double in price just before I absolutely have to have it).:(

I guess it is just that some folks work differently than others, but I have had time periods with no access to a TS, and I survived, but would I do it again, NO WAY. The TS in my shop is just too handy, for too many things and is probably the most used tool in my shop. In short, it will NEVER be replaced by either a Guided saw system, OR a 5 in 1 combo machine, now a Format saw................wellllllllll.......I might could be talked into one of those.:rolleyes: ;) :D

[Lee DeRaud]

Now, now Lee, have you ever seen anything get Cheaper about the time you really NEEDED it?:rolleyes: :D No, but if he cuts the long ones now, all it costs him in the long run to "convert" them back to long ones is the difference in the price...assuming he ever needs to. In the meantime he has the space he needs for the camper.

[Norman Hitt]

No, but if he cuts the long ones now, all it costs him in the long run to "convert" them back to long ones is the difference in the price...assuming he ever needs to. In the meantime he has the space he needs for the camper.

I wonder if he would come out better selling the long ones either through an ad, or on (you know that place we can't mention,) ;) and buying the shorter ones?

[Jeremy Chisholm]

but... camp in a tent? :rolleyes: Fits nicely in a corner behind a TS;)

A camper is a pretty big investment if you're not sure about camping yet...only about 3% of us Boy Scouts in my troop at 10 years old stuck it out to make Eagle, and I doubt that many of us camp regularly now...

[Alan DuBoff]

I haven't owned a table saw for over 2 years. Do I wish I had one at times? Heck yeah. Will I ever put one permanently back in my shop. Not a chance.Come on Steve, you have to elaborate a bit...;)

Is it only because of the (un)safety factor? I consider the table saw to be one of the more dangerous tools in any shop, and I know that folks will argue this point, so I'm not looking for a long heated debate over the safety of having a table saw in the shop, just that I feel the danger presented wtih kickback, and the inherent nature of a spinner circular blade and the way wood becomes relieved in many cases while cutting, make it one of the more dangerous tools for me.

If I was to pick one saw, I would most likely want a band saw. Absolutely no chance of kick back, and I consider it to be one of the safer tools in the shop, but not as safe as a pencil.:rolleyes:

What is your reasoning for not wanting a table saw back in your shop? The way you stated it I have to think it's safety.

[Loren Hedahl]

I have a Jet "B"-clone on a Ridgid contractor saw. I found that 99 percent of my TS ripping was under 12 inches. So I removed the wings, added wheels and made a short rail out of hardwood.

It's best to use regular thickness material and laminate to get the size. That way warpage and twist are kept in control. Then plane the blank down to the exact size of the original.

For a finish, I just used an oil, then wax the rails once in awhile. The original rail was waxed well then hung from the rafters of the wood shed. I am beginning to doubt if I will ever use the long rail again. I think I actually prefer the feel of sliding the rip fence on the wood rail vs the steel. The cost was zip, since I used some scraps of ash. Two different species of wood would also make it visually interesting.

For sheet goods, I'm happy with the Festool setup, though it costs a lot. I also use it for getting the first straight edge on solid stock. Then I use the TS to cut to width. You should check out the flip-flop stand that Home Depot sells. I like it better than roller stands and use it not only for ripping long stock on the TS but also on the side to support the ends for cross cutting.

After all this, I'm still considering getting rid of the TS.

[Jason Ochoada]

Thanks everyone for all the great replies.

It is correct that I don't have the camper yet, and granted it's not really a camper it's a popup and it's used.Cost is about half the price of the PM66. We have been tent camping but this is my attempt to bridge the camping gap with my wife so we can all enjoy this time together at least once in a while. My son is 3 so I figure we have a few years to camp together. I think the best avenues to take are finding a deal (Friend in the country) on storage or parking outside. After thinking a while I think I would regret letting go of the tablesaw.

Once again, thank you all again for all the help, ideas and for preventing me from making a rash decision.

Jason