Thick Veneer Question

[Vaughn McMillan]

I'm getting ready to do a project that will involve gluing a 1/4" thick (or thereabouts) shop-sawn veneer onto a 1/8" baltic birch substrate. The panels will be about 34" x 11", and I'm planning to make four of them. I can't spring for a full-blown (or would that be full-sucked?) vacuum veneering setup, so I'm looking at affordable alternatives.

One option would be one of the hand-pumped systems like the Thin Air Press kit. Anyone have any horror or success stories with similar systems?

The other option would be plywood cauls and a boatload of clamps. With a thick veneer, it seems that would work if I was judicious about glue coverage. Any thoughts?

Thanks -

[Per Swenson]

Hey Vaughn,

Glue up the panel and veneer, tape in between two sheets

of 3/4 ply. Put it on the garage floor and roll your car on it.

No, I ain't kidding. Yes I have done this.

Per

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey Vaughn,

Glue up the panel and veneer, tape in between two sheets

of 3/4 ply. Put it on the garage floor and roll your car on it.

No, I ain't kidding. Yes I have done this.

Per

Heavy, soft, yeah, why not? :D

if you have open solid ceiling above a work bench, you can also use the spring stick method (is that what it is called) where you put an extra piece of plywood on top of your veneer, and then put a bunch of cut a tad too long sticks from the ceiling to the extra piece of plywood, a bit tricky, but I've done this with good success.

Cheers!

[Alan Turner]

Vaughn,
Good luck with the glue up. How are you using the 3/8" panels? 1/4" veneer is not really a veneer and you could have problems, both from splitting of the "veneer" and with warpage. Just a thought.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Alan, the panels will be the top and bottom of a pool cue case similar to this one (http://workingwoods.com/workingwoods/quilted_maple_pool_cue_case.htm). For the original, I didn't use a substrate, and the panels are a little less than 3/8" thick. So far, no warping or cracking in the original (knock on wood), despite taking it out in both dry and wet weather. Nonetheless, I figured attaching the glued-up hardwood panel to a plywood substrate would help ensure it doesn't move. I'm planning to use plastic resin glue for creep resistance, too. Any thoughts?

Per, I like the idea of using the car for pressure. I'd have to use the driveway, though, since getting a car in my garage ain't gonna happen until the day I move out of this house. (Heck, I can barely get me in the garage some days.)

Stu, your suggestion reminded me that I'm going to have to clear off the workbench to find a large enough flat surface underneath all the junk to set up whatever I do (unless, of course, I use the driveway. ;) )

Thanks guys -

[tod evans]

Hey Vaughn,

Glue up the panel and veneer, tape in between two sheets

of 3/4 ply. Put it on the garage floor and roll your car on it.

No, I ain't kidding. Yes I have done this.

Per


i`ve done this too per! works well.....tod

[Art Mulder]

i`ve done this too per! works well.....tod

This, of course, assumes that your garage floor is actually flat... :rolleyes:

[tod evans]

vaughn, i think you`ll have better luck using 1/4"ply and 1/8" veneer, and to actually do it right 1/4" ply and 1/16" veneer on both sides...02 tod

[Jim O'Dell]

This, of course, assumes that your garage floor is actually flat... :rolleyes:

And that you car doesn't leak any type of fluid!!:D :D

[Per Swenson]

I see some don't take me seriously,

Numbah 1, Driveway will work, pressure time is only a hour.

Numbah 2, Flat. That's what the plywood is for.

Numbah 3, Fluids. Put it in a contrator garbage bag.

Before I was able to go and buy any Vacume system or any size

Bag my heart desired, I was a starving finish carpenter.

with 4 mouths to, no 5, feed. My needs where to get the job

completed. On time and on budget. So go ahead and and laugh.

I still got paid.

Per

[Jim Becker]

Vaughn...if the panels will be captured in the frame/structure of the project. Glue up the 1/4" solid stock separately and just tack glue it to the substrate in the middle...and then let it all float in the frame/structure. You'll get the thickness you need that way without risking the wood movement issues that Alan mentions.

[Ed Kowaski]

11 x 34 is small enough that clamps and slightly curved cauls with pressure sheets will handle it nicely, not to say that a car wouldn't work. ;)

Tod mentioned this... you do realize that both sides of the 1/8 core need to be "veneered" right. Otherwise this is a perfect way to insure the panels warp nicely.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips so far.

With all the warnings about warped panels, and suggestions for veneering both sides, I'm wondering if perhaps I should just use solid hardwood (like I did for my first case). As I mentioned, the original case has remained straight and true. Was I simply lucky?

[Jim Becker]

Vaughn, if the material you are using is stable, there is no reason a solid panel made from it shouldn't remain stable. Always build with wood movement in mind and you should be fine.

[Howard Acheson]

I suggest you rethink your plans. 1/4" thick veneer glued onto a plywood will not work. The solid wood will want to expand and contract with seasonal changes in relative humidity. As the solid wood moves, the plywood won't. You will have serious warping and maybe even wood failure. Veneering both sides will not work either. The solid wood will want to split or otherwise fail. The maximum thickness for veneer should be no more than 1/8" and even that is problematic. In most cases 1/16" is the proper thickness for veneer and it should be applied to both sides.

[tod evans]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips so far.

With all the warnings about warped panels, and suggestions for veneering both sides, I'm wondering if perhaps I should just use solid hardwood (like I did for my first case). As I mentioned, the original case has remained straight and true. Was I simply lucky?


vaughn, look at your case........on the "wide" boards, top-n-bottom, you have a lamination of several small strips..........whenever you introduce glue you strangthen and stabilize the whole.....so given the amount of strips involved in the first box my guess is that you`ve dramatically reduced the amount of movement that a "board" of that size would exibit. the sides are layed up correctly for movement with the grain running around the permiter.......my suggestion would be to stick with solid and do a multi-piece lamination for your "wide" boards like you have done, even if they`re the same species, it`s the glue joints you want for stability....02 tod

[Doug Shepard]

What others have said. DAMHIKT this but anybody gluing up a thicker piece of solid wood to a piece of ply needs their head examined. Wood's job will be to expand & contract while plywood's job will be to resist that movement. One of those guys is going to lose the battle. I have a piece of 1/2" oak glued to 1/4" oak ply in a early misguided attempt to thicken the panel. It has large splits in the oak, some as wide as 1/8". It's a really cool explosive effect though when it cracks if you want some excitement. It sounded like an M80 went off in the house.