Shapton Stones

[Chris Jenkins]

I figure if this post belongs anywhere it may be here.

I currently have 3 Shapton Stones, the 2K, 5K and 8K. I spent a lot of time sharpening plane and chisels back this past weekend and it took far too long on the 2K on some of these. I dropped back to a 220 Silica Carabide 220 waterstone when they were really bad, but then I don't have anything in between that and the 2K. I was thinking of picking up a 1000 at the local Woodcraft. Would this be a better stone to work with when doing backsides or do should I use a lower grit? I believe Shapton sells a 320 grit, but it is not available at the local dealer.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance,

Chris

[tod evans]

chris, go see stu`s thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=43663) for my method of sharpening in a hurry....02 tod

[Steven Wilson]

The 320 is nicely agressive, I only pull mine out when it's really needed. The 1000 grit is a nice stone to fall back to when the 2000 takes too long. Just make sure that you keep them nice and flat so that you can move through the grits quickly. Tod, no offense by Shapton stones start where powerstroping, Tormek's and other devices stop. I've been there, done that, and find that going through the Shapton sequence by hand is faster, more precise, and leaves a better edge than any powered method. I leave the powered methods to edge shaping, turning tools (except for skew chisels), and chisels used for rough work.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Chris,

Like Steven mentions, the 1k stone is a good stone to go to following the Tormek or other grinding device.

When I grind, I usually grind plane blades a couple degrees less than I use the stones, so in that sense have both a primary and secondary bevel, which you may not want to do. This applies to all my plane blades except thick ones from LV/LN or thick vintage ones. Chisels are mostly single bevel.

I have and use the 1k, 2k and 8k Shaptons. The 2k pretty much lives on the bench for quick touch-ups while working.

Take care, Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I use a 1K and a 5K and find that those two do a very good job. I may hone with a honing paste on leather for additional polishing, depending upon the thing I'm sharpening.

I find the Shapton stones to be less agressive for a specific grit than Norton stones. That is, my 1000 grit Norton is more agressive than my 1000 grit Shapton. While both are good stones, the Nortons are a bit less expensive.

Additionally, I found that the Shapton stones can get into a "polished" state, depending upon what you use to flatten them. What I mean by "polished" is that the stone doesn't cut the way it used to but cuts like a much finer stone. You need to flatten the low grit stones (like the 1K stone) with something fairly rough, like an extra coarse diamond stone.

Mike

[Chris Jenkins]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

The only pre Shapton work I do is from time to time stick the plane backs on a good belt sander and some on the 200 Silicon Carbide water stone (IE I don't own a strop or Tormek). As far as my beveled edge, even off the grinder the 2K seems to do a real good job, though the 1K would help me speed things up.

I have been really happy with the Shapton line. I have the compact lapping plate when it comes to flattening stones, but man that this is WAY over priced. I plan to only use the 1K on backs that need a good amount of attention. As well as for right after the grinder when I touch up an angle. I too don't grind all the way to the correct angle this way I don't burn the steel at the edge and I know I get a good flat bevel (lasts a lot longer than a hollow grind IMHO) when I clean up the angle on the stones.

[Phil Hirz]

I recently purchased a 1K, 5k, and 8k shapton stones as well as the compact lapping plate. I haven't tried them out yet since my compact lapping plate is on backorder. Previously I used Nortons and a coarse duosharp diamond stone for flattening the stones. My nortons are starting to get worn out and since I have heard a lot of good things about shaptons I figured I would upgrade. I had a couple of questions for the long time shapton users.

Do most of you flatten your shaptons using the compact lapping plate or some other system?

Have any of you seen or tried any of the new shapton glassstones? My friend was trying to talk me into them but they seem so thin. I was just wondering if any of you had seen or heard anything about them.

[tod evans]

here`s a good sharpening article from a knife forum that breifly touches on the relevance of stropping an edge after you`re done on the stones. even though it`s from a knife forum the steel doesn`t know whether or not it`s a carving knife or plane iron....in the end all that matters is that it cuts well enough for your use.....02 tod

link to article (http://www.knifeart.com/sharfaqbyjoe.html)

[Mike Henderson]

Do most of you flatten your shaptons using the compact lapping plate or some other system?
I flatten my Shaptons with a DMT diamond "stone" (or whatever you want to call it). It does a great job and I can use the DMT stones for other things, like taking a lot of material off when I need to - to flatten the back of an old chisel or to grind back a chipped edge.

The Shapton flattening plate is just too expensive, IMHO.

Mike

[Mike Wenzloff]

...
Do most of you flatten your shaptons using the compact lapping plate or some other system?...
Hi Phil,

I use the cast iron lapping plate from Shapton. Still using the powders I bought with it 4 or 5 years ago or so. It works well. It works quickly. It also does work well as the base for the stones as its weight is a plus.

But it isn't necessary. Like Mike mentions above, the DMT coarse or extra coarse DuoSharp "stones" are wide enough and also usable for other purposes. I do not think they work as well for the higher grit Shaptons nor as fast, but the dual purpose is nice.

Take care, Mike

[Alan Turner]

I flatten my Shaptons using a piece of granite scrap that is flat (not all scrap granite is flat, so check) and 90 grit SC powder. Only takes a minute. I have the 1, 5 and 8k. When the granite looks ragged from the SC, I put another into service. If you have a granite countertop shop around, a bit of dumpster diving will yield a bunch at the right price.

For flattening badly out of shape chisels and plane irons from rust hunting, I use a 100 grit diamond plate from the lapidary trade. About $30 and works fine. I then go to a 220 grit Norton diamond "stone," and then to the 1000 grit.

[Robert Trotter]

Since your talking about flattening sharpening stones I'd like to know what diamond stone 'fineness' to use for water stones. I presume there is a grading for diamond stones:confused:

My stones are coming due for flattening and I was thinking of getting a diamond stone to keep all my stones flat. Is one diamond stone OK to do all grit/fineness , say 600 to 8000 or would you need a finer diamond stone for the finer stones.
I have the Sharpening book by Mr. Lee but it just say use a diamond stone and nothing about the fineness of it. Unless I am blind.

[Phil Hirz]

Robert,

I have used a DMT plate to flatten my Norton waterstones for a couple of months now. I use the coarse/extra coarse stone and I usually prefer the coarse (blue) side for flattening stones. Sometimes I use the extra course side on my 1000 grit stone when it is badly dished or I am impatient, but the finish left by the extra course stone is noticeably rougher.


-Phil

[Eddie Darby]

I was thinking of picking up a 1000 at the local Woodcraft. Would this be a better stone to work with when doing backsides or do should I use a lower grit? I believe Shapton sells a 320 grit, but it is not available at the local dealer.
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance,
Chris

If I was doing a lot of lapping then I would go with the Lap-Sharp from Wood Artistry.

http://www.woodartistry.com/

If I wasn't doing a lot of lapping, then I would go with a granite surface plate with some silcon-carbide paper attached with just water suction. I have a grade "B" plate that is flat to within +/- 0.0001".

I was once working on an A2 Cryo blade's backside, 4 1/2 blade from Lie-Nielsen on my DMT x-coarse 10" x 4" diamond plate, and found the going very very slow. So I got out the granite plate, and was much happier with it. When my silcon-carbide paper started to slow down and it was my last sheet, I just got out some loose silicon-carbide 90x grit powder and put it right on top of the worn sheet, worked great!

The 1000x grit Shapton would be a great addition to have in your set. It would be a great place to start when you are re-sharpening an edge after it can't be honed into shape anymore. The 2000x Shapton helps to refine the edge and then the other higher grits are in the honing stages of sharpening.

I own the 15,000x Shapton and love the job it does. It replaces my old leather hone. I try to avoid leather honing in most cases as it runs the risk of rounding over the edge, that you have just invested so much effort into trying to remove in the first place.

A good tip that I have picked-up in my travels, is once you have the backside lapped flat and shining like a mirror, don't touch that surface with anything other than the last grit that you used to shine that surface. This way you won't ruin the surface that you spent so much time refining.

[Eddie Darby]

Have any of you seen or tried any of the new shapton glassstones? My friend was trying to talk me into them but they seem so thin. I was just wondering if any of you had seen or heard anything about them.

I would say that the thin look of the GlassStones is deceiving, since when using the thick professional series stones, they can't be used when they get thin, so the stone itself is the substrate that backs the stones surface. The glass used in the Shapton GlassStones is very very very flat, and a lot cheaper to use as a backing material. There is talk at the Discussion forum for Shaptons that they might be coming out with a thicker version of the GlassStones. I've also heard favourable reports on wear of these GlassStones.

Harrelson (Shapton promoter) is doing an extensive tour right now demo-ing these stones, and might be near you.

http://www.japanesetools.com/pages/SharpTour2006.php

Here is a discussion forum that Harrelson Stanley checks from time to time as well as other Shapton users:

http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2/index.php

[Frank Desaulniers]

Hi!
I find that diamond plates don't work well for lapping backs of plane blades. The plates stop biting very quickly, even if they keep working fine for primary bevels or steel surfaces that aren't as big (I think the big surface of steel has something to do with it).
I use the big coarse/extra-coarse DMT to flatten my Nortons. After a while there's not much difference between the coarse and the extra-coarse sides.
I use a glass plate with sandpaper glued to it and coarse grit to flatten my coarse Shapton stones (the sandpaper stops the glass from being worn out of flat, and acts as a substrate for the grit). The sandpaper lasts a long, long time because the grit does the work. I'd be afraid of wearing out my DMT stone prematurely with Shaptons.
For flattening backs of plane blades I use my 220 Shapton stone because I can control flatness and it bites relatively well.
I've tried Nortons and Shaptons (have both though not all grits of each, although I have compareed with friend's stones) and will stick with the 1000, 4000, and 8000 Nortons. I simply prefer the way they feel, especially the 8000 Norton stone. They don't stay flat quite as long but they are easier to flatten..and it's not like sharpening a blade: you don't have to disassemble anything, nor stop working, to flatten a stone, so it's not very inconvenient. I do like the coarser Shaptons though because they retain flatness longer and since I use them to lap backs it means the backs stay flatter. They also bite better than the 220 Norton. I find things go more quickly when they are a bit dry though (the Shaptons), contrary to what I hear from others.
2¢