Help! Need opinions on what Table saw to get.

[Tim Dorcas]

I have had my Ryobi BT3100 for over year and a half and I have done some great projects (most of which can be seen here (http://www.responsetolight.com)or here (http://responsetolight.com/gallery2/main.php)). However the time has come to upgrade.

So I think I have it down to two saws. Rona has a General 50-225 (which I believe is the same as the 50-220 except cheaper) for $848 Canadian. Home Depot has the Delta 36-655 for $899 Cnd. They are generall pretty equal except the Delta is only 1 3/4 hp while the General is 2 Hp.

Anyone have any thoughts? MONEY is a factor! Anyone use any of these? Is 2 Hp going to be enough? I doubt my wife will let me upgrade again for awhile so I want to make the best choice possible.

Thanks!

Tim

[tod evans]

welcome tim! my suggestion for a budget minded saw is to look on the used market for a true cabinet saw with a 3hp or larger motor. older generals and american made powermatic and deltas can usually be found for the money you mention. the plus side to buying a used cabinet saw is that it`s already depreiciated and as long as you take care of it, it will retain its value. just some food for thought......02 tod

[John Hedges]

On the General Site www.general.ca there is a 50-220 M1 and a 50-220 C M1. If the General you are refering to has the Bies style fence shown on the 50-220 C M1 then I would absolutely go with the general. However if it comes with the other fence I am not sure which one I would get without looking at both. I have seen the General 50-220 C M1 up close and it is a really nice saw, i wasn't as impressed with the Delta. Just my 2c

[chris del]

Tim,

I would strongly suggest you plan to buy your 2nd and last table saw this time as upgrading every couple of years is costly......
I am assuming you have about $1000.00 in your budget after tax......
If this is the case and you are not in a hurry, you should start looking at the buy and sells, online classifides, auctions etc and buy a used General Canada or Delta unisaw, American made Powermatic etc.... This saws may have scratched paint, weathered tops ect, but you will have a piece of heavy iron that will last forever.

[Howard Rosenberg]

.... but you've gotta ask yourself these questions -

1
- what do you think of the fences on each of these units

2
- what do you think of the feel of the various controls (wheels, doors, storage)

3
- what do you intend to do with the saw
- in other words, if you're planning on pushing 8/4 hard maple into the blade
eight hours a day five days a week, you might find them a tad light...

4
- the difference between 1 3/4 and 2HP is academic
- the question is -
- are you confined to 120
- or do you have the flexibility for 220

5
- for more insight into #4, see #3

6
- if you've got the flexibility for 220 and the budget, a true cabinet saw might have more appeal for you

Both these saws are designed for the big-box stores to sell "at a price" in custom configurations designed to not alienate their specialist stores.

You can get a better view of the features/pricing landscape by going to a specialist tool/machine store.

BTW -
- you mention RONA
- what city are you in
- if you're in/near Toronto, I can recommend a store with great customer service, a uniformly knowledgeable staff and that stocks both brands

Howard

[Tim Dorcas]

welcome tim! my suggestion for a budget minded saw is to look on the used market for a true cabinet saw with a 3hp or larger motor. older generals and american made powermatic and deltas can usually be found for the money you mention. the plus side to buying a used cabinet saw is that it`s already depreiciated and as long as you take care of it, it will retain its value. just some food for thought......02 tod

I have been looking for locally used cabinet saw for the last couple of months with little luck. When they are available they are still out of my price range. Thanks for the response!

[Tim Dorcas]

On the General Site www.general.ca (http://www.general.ca) there is a 50-220 M1 and a 50-220 C M1. If the General you are refering to has the Bies style fence shown on the 50-220 C M1 then I would absolutely go with the general. However if it comes with the other fence I am not sure which one I would get without looking at both. I have seen the General 50-220 C M1 up close and it is a really nice saw, i wasn't as impressed with the Delta. Just my 2c

It is the 50-220 M1. :( But still better than what I have :)

[scott spencer]

Of those two, I'd definitely go with the GI over the Delta. The GI has alot more going on under the hood if the 50-225 is like the 50-220, and the 36-655 is anything like the 36-715 series here. The GI has a cast blade shroud to connect the front and rear trunnions vs connecting rods. It also uses a dual drive stage said to increase torque and power. Plus, GI is a Canadian family owned company, even though that model is made in Taiwan...

Either way, it's most important to go with the one you like best...both should serve well.

[Tim Dorcas]

.... but you've gotta ask yourself these questions -

1
- what do you think of the fences on each of these units

I think the Fence on the Delta is a marginally better.

2
- what do you think of the feel of the various controls (wheels, doors, storage)

Both are pretty even as it relates to controls. Again, they both feel better than what I have now.

3
- what do you intend to do with the saw
- in other words, if you're planning on pushing 8/4 hard maple into the blade
eight hours a day five days a week, you might find them a tad light...

One of things that made me think I needed to upgrade in the first place was that my current saw could barely cut 2" maple. Honestly I don't work with it all of the time but when I do, it'd be nice for it to cut it well even if I had to take my time.

4
- the difference between 1 3/4 and 2HP is academic
- the question is -
- are you confined to 120
- or do you have the flexibility for 220

Currently I have 120 but I'm getting another line put in for 220. Both saws are 120/220 which works for me.

Is there really no difference between 1 3/4 and 2 HP?

5
- for more insight into #4, see #3

Both these saws are designed for the big-box stores to sell "at a price" in custom configurations designed to not alienate their specialist stores.

You can get a better view of the features/pricing landscape by going to a specialist tool/machine store.

BTW -
- you mention RONA
- what city are you in
- if you're in/near Toronto, I can recommend a store with great customer service, a uniformly knowledgeable staff and that stocks both brands




Howard
I live in Calgary. I have been to all of the stores that I can think of that have a table saw selection. The thing that made the General at Rona stand out was it was $200 cheaper than what House of Tools for what looks like the same saw (50-225 vs 50-220).

Thanks for insight!

Tim

[Mike Cutler]

Tim.

I have the General International 50-220 hybrid saw. Here are my answers to Howards questions.

1. The fence on my 50-220 has started to slip. All of the parts are there. The slippage is due to the design of the metal wings that ride inside, and that have the adjustments on them. I have to back the fence with a board and clamps to keep it from moving. The fence will be replaced very shortly.

2. I like the controls layout, especially the Stop bar. The door is a slight pain to get into, but that is because I mounted a Jess-Em Mast-R-Slide to the saw.

3. I have been pushing 8/4 wenge, and 4/4 brazillian cherry through the saw lately with no problems. It's currently wired to 110. I have been too lazy to change it over.

4. The General is a 2HP saw, theoretically. My Jet is a 1 3/4" saw. The Jet is wired for 220. Both saws are about the same feel power wise. My two TS's sit back to back.

One design issue that rears it ugly head very quicly with the General is the throat plate. It is very thin, and flexible. Making a ZCI for it will be a real challenge due to the lack of depth of recess on the table top.

A hobbiest can get by with much less saw than a production enviorment would require.

[CPeter James]

A friend has the GI contractor saw. All in all it seems like a nice machine, but.......there is play in the trunnions that we can not get out. We replaced the rear trunnion and that did not help. It will not cut without leaving tooth marks. We have aligned it with a dial indicator and it moves .006"-.010" after getting it set up. The torque from the motor seems to change something.

IMHO, be patient and get a good used cabinet saw. A General made in Canada would be my first choice. Second would be the American made PM66 (I have this-paid $1,000 US). After that, any of the others would be OK. There really is a big difference between a true cabinet saw and the wannabes. Wait and get what you want. I find that if you are looking too hard, you won't find anything, but just keep you eyes and ears open and things show up. I have a shop full of big tools that I paid 40% of new or less. Just buy when the opportunity arises.

CPeter

[Jeff Monson]

I think you've gotten good responses on the looking for a good used cabinet saw, I own a delta contractor saw and after only 10 months I REALLY wish I would have waited and bought a better saw with a better fence and more power. Either that or wait a couple months and save some more for a new cabinet saw, My local WW stores sell very nice jet and delta cabinet saws with beis. fences for around 1300.00 you can get a really nice saw.

[Art Mulder]

So I think I have it down to two saws. Rona has a General 50-225 (which I believe is the same as the 50-220 except cheaper) for $848 Canadian. Home Depot has the Delta 36-655 for $899 Cnd. They are generall pretty equal except the Delta is only 1 3/4 hp while the General is 2 Hp.

Tim,

The saw at Rona is probably a GI Star Shop, and not a straight GI. General makes the "Star Shop" line of GI tools specifically for Rona. That is why it is $200 cheaper than what you find at House of Tools -- it ain't the same thing! (The website lists the star shop line and gives specs also)

I, personally, have a GI 50-185 contractors saw, and I really like it. It comes with the General T fence, which is basically identical to Biesemeyer. It is an awesome fence and I would really really think twice about buying any model of GI that does NOT come with the General T fence.

[Randy Gillard]

If your reason for upgrading is as you say, to cut 2" maple, then you should consider a cabinet saw. I had a GI Contractors for 4 years, and it would cut 2" maple with a thin kerf blade, but I had alignment issues with it.

I have replaced it with a General 350 cabinet saw (built in 1965) that I got at auction for $600, BUT by the time I bought a new motor, added a fence, new bearings, etc. I had close to $1500 CDN after tax sunk into the saw, plus a lot of blood sweat and tears.

If you don't want to fuss with a used one but are ona tight budget, get either the Craftex cabinet saw ($1200) or the King ($1500). Both would serve you a lifetime and are miles ahead of a contractors saw for power and accuracy.

Just my $0.02.

[Art Mulder]

TIm,

I was in Rona yesterday morning, and I stopped for a moment and looked at the GI Star Shop saw that you are considering...

Now, I have to emphasize that I only stopped for a moment, did not do a detailed inspection, but I was not impressed with the fence. Seemed light, did not move easily, and looked to me like it would be irritating. I don't care for fences that clamp at the back either.

Let us know how things turn out for you!

[Tim Dorcas]

I ended up getting the General 50-225 from Rona.

How did I end up there?

Over the past few days, I have looked at a ton of table saws. I looked for a good used one. There were none to be had. The contenders included the Ridgid TS3560, Delta 36-655, and a late comer by King (I went to the Black Forest Wood Company and saw a good saw in my price range).

Ridgid TS3560 - $799

When I first started thinking about getting a new table saw, this came to mind. It's reasonably priced. Has gotten a ton of good press. I have a few Ridgid tools and like them quite well. I like the built in Mobile base (which means I don't have to shell out another $60-$100 to get one. I also liked the fence. The two primary things that stopped me from getting it: 1) It's only 1.5 hp. 2) Dust collection sucks.

Delta 36-655 -- $899

This fell out pretty quick. It's underpowered. It's right tilt versus the left tilt. The innards looked pretty standard but it cost more. I did like the fence.

King 10" Contractor Saw - $799-$849

I stumbled on this one today while searching for wood. While I was not familiar with King as a brand, the table saw had most of the features I was looking for and then some. The fence was the best fence of any saw in this price range. And you could get it with a 50" fence for $50 more. The things going against it? It was right tilt. The engineering was similiar to the Delta which I see as being average for the group. And while it was a 2 HP saw it would have required me to add a new electrical line sooner than I was ready for. If my garage supported the electrial requirements, I probably would have purchased this. It really looks like bargain of the bunch.

General 50-225 - $848

This is what I purchased. Since it was suggested that it was not at all like the General 50-220, I looked at both machines in as much depth as I could. With the exception of the Fence, everything else looks to be the same. The dust collection looks the best of any saw in this price range. It is a left tilt, 2 HP saw. It can run on 110 until I put in a new circuit for 220. The weakest thing is definitely the fence. It is not the same quality as the 50-220 or any of the other fences in this category. I can always upgrade the fence later when I hit the lottery. Everything else about this saw I like including the fact that it fits my budget.

Thanks everyone for handing out your advice!

Tim

[Corey Hallagan]

Congrats Tim on the new saw, I hope it serves you well. Watch the forums etc. for someone updating fences etc. and you might get a good deal. I have a Delta contractors saw that is about 2 years old now. I do mostly 3/4 and less work on my table saw so I have no problems but I know it is underpowered for larger work. What I like alot is the T-2 fence. It is a great fence. Lots of good ones out there! Again, enjoy the saw.

Corey

[Vaughn McMillan]

Congrats on making the decision. TS purchases tend to be major milestones in setting up a shop, so the decision on which one to buy is usually a tough one. Sounds like you did your homework and got the one that will fit your needs and budget best. Have fun!

[Tim Dorcas]

Thanks Corey and Vaughn! It definitely was a big decision. Honestly, any one of those would have been an improvement over what I have already.

[scott spencer]

Congrats Tim! Nothing like the feeling of picking up your first nice TS! You may that the fence suits you just fine after a while....if not, like you said...you could always sell it off and upgrade it.

Get that thing aligned and put on a really nice blade...you'll be standing in dust in no time!

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Congrats on the new saw. I'm still not sure how you came to the conclusion that 1.75 HP is "underpowered," but it sounds like you'll enjoy your choice. Work safe!