Router biscuit joints?

[Laurie Brown]

Has anyone used a router (table mount or otherwise) to do biscuit joining rather than using a biscuit joiner? What are the pros and cons, and how was it done? I am looking into this as an alternative since I already own a nice router and table and would rather pay $40 for a cutting blade than $200+ for a decent biscuit joiner that I may not use that much.

[tod evans]

laurie, when biscuit joiners first hit the market i just had to have one, bought the best lamello had to offer at the time........sold it a year or so later. personally i see absolutely no need for biscuits other than possibly a fast way to spline window casings at the miter......
to answer your question though; yes you can use a router and slotcutter for biscuits but the set-up is a major pain in the patooty for any type of endgrain or mitered work.....02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

I had one several years ago.

It worked ok on long grain.
End grain, be very careful.
Need stops on both sides of the cut so the material won't get away.

[Matt Day]

FWIW, I bought the Dewalt biscuit jointer for under $150, and have been happy with it.

[Paul Engle]

ah likes mine with sausage gravy :D .... I have been making 40 inch plus plaques for taxidermists for 15 years and quit using biscuts after the first year and have never had one come back ( over 1000 made) if it were a structial application I might go for it. I have used em for joining counter top pieces in stead of the bar and clamp. will sell you my biscut cutter cheap if you really need one, but the router with slot cutter works well and is way cheaper.

[John Fry]

I use mine for alignment purposes at glueup time. BUT, not for straight edge, long grain, gluing as in multiple board, flat panels. I rarely ever use biscuits for flat edge gluing.

I use biscuits mostly for aligning mitered corner carcase work during glue up and clamping. They are extremely helpful when the assembly of two sides, a top and bottom of a "case" all come together with mitered ends. It would seem to me that the setup for cutting slots in 45 degree, mitered end grain would be much more difficult on a router table. The built in adjustable fences on plate joiners make this pretty simple.

So depending on what you will be using the biscuits for, should tell you if you need to buy the extra tool.

My 2 cents.

[Ken Werner]

I'm going to stick my neck [way] out and disagree with Tod for a minute. I think biscuits are very useful for a variety of applications, not exactly fine woodworking, but of good utility. The problem with the 5/32 slot cutting bit is that it is really only useful for edge or end slots, and really doesn't work well for 90 degree joints, which is when biscuits are most useful. I'd say don't spend anything on the slot cutter and just go with the biscuit jointer. They are far superior. And as my friend Tod would say, just my .02
Ken

[Laurie Brown]

I want to use it for some cabinets that I am making. I was going to use them to mount the face frame on the cabinet and to help in alignment of the carcass parts. I just couldn't see justifying spending that amount of money for a tool I might only use for one project and not use again. Also, my budget is tight right now and I'd rather be spending my money on the wood than on more tools. ;)

[Blaine Harrison]

I have both a biscuit joiner and a pocket hole jig (Kreg). For what you are talking about, the pocket joinery is probably a lot better than biscuits anyway. It's certainly a lot easier and you can use the pocket jig for a lot of applications including most of those where biscuits are traditionally used. I've made a few face framed cabinets and bookcases. With one exception (the first one), I have used pocket screws as it's a lot easier to clamp the face frame in place before screwing it into place than to "hope" the biscuit slots are all in the right place, then get them all to line up at once come glue-up time.

That said, I do use my biscuit joiner on long grain glue-ups for alignment only. If I were doing something that was truly "fine" furniture (like John Fry's work), I would avoid using biscuits because they can leave you with indentations or bulges (can't remember which) as they dry.

Blaine

[Larry Fox]

I have done quite a bit of it with a router. All you need is a 5/32 slot cutter and you are off to the races. As Steve mentions, it is nice to have something so the work does not get away from you.

Myself, I like biscuts but I like / use splines more but that is just personal preference.

[John Stevens]

Has anyone used a router (table mount or otherwise) to do biscuit joining rather than using a biscuit joiner?

I've used both a router and a Lamello biscuit joiner. The router will work with standard biscuits as long as you use a bit that cuts a 4mm (5/32") slot. It will just take about ten times as long as it would with a good biscuit joiner like a Lamello.

I've also used the router to make spline joints with 1/4" spline material and a 1/4" diameter straight bit. Again, it takes about ten times as long as it would to join the pieces with a good biscuit joiner.

I can't say whether it would be worth it to you to buy a less-expensive biscuit joiner, but I have never heard anyone complain about poor alignment or reliability when using a Lamello.

I put off buying a biscuit joiner for two years, for the same reasons you mention. In addition, I had a prejudice against biscuit joints because they're not the type of "fine craftsmanship" that I was aspiring to. Now that I've gotten over it and bought a Lamello, it has more than earned its keep by saving so much time in the shop. Personally, I find it very hard to justify other methods of joining wood, but to each his own--it's all about what you as a woodworker value more under the circumstances: aesthetics (dovetails, pinned M&T, a through M&T) or your time.

When it comes to the strength of a biscuit joint, I'm in a small minority here (okay, I'm the only person) who will say that biscuit joints can be adequately strong for just about any task as long as the joint won't be subjected to outdoor weather conditions. It's the design that makes the difference:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=31971
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40464

Flame away, guys. ;)

[tod evans]

I'm going to stick my neck [way] out and disagree with Tod for a minute. I think biscuits are very useful for a variety of applications, not exactly fine woodworking, but of good utility. The problem with the 5/32 slot cutting bit is that it is really only useful for edge or end slots, and really doesn't work well for 90 degree joints, which is when biscuits are most useful. I'd say don't spend anything on the slot cutter and just go with the biscuit jointer. They are far superior. And as my friend Tod would say, just my .02
Ken


awww come on ken, we all know there`s 100 different ways to skin a cat and as long as the durn thing`s skint` that`s what really matters.....lotsa folks like and use biscuits with very good results, i`m just not one of `em:) ...02 tod

[Ken Werner]

fair enough Tod. no offense intended
Ken

[tod evans]

fair enough Tod. no offense intended
Ken

none taken......all is well:)

[Al Killian]

If biscuits are so evil as most consider them, why does see master woodworkers like Norm using them? I have seen them used by custom cabinet shops all the time. So they can not be that bad.I know that if using them in plywood they have speacil ones that do not expand as much. Me thinks that most are so use to usein M&T and floating tenons that it takes them out of their comfort zone as with any new technology.As for me I will use them untill someone can prove proof positive that they are not worth using.:)

[Greg Sznajdruk]

Laurie:

If you think that you may only use the Biscuit Joiner for this project and then only infrequently. ( Which is what I do). Look at the Robyi at Hopeless Depot. It is not much more that what a slot cutter sells for. It is not even close to a good Biscuit Joiner, but it is easy to use and if you take care you can get good results.

Greg

[Laurie Brown]

I have a Kreg pocket hole jig, and considered using that, but I don't have any clamps big enough to hold the face frame in place while I drive the screws (I am making a large cabinet 24" deep). For the price of the clamps I'd have to buy, I thought I might be better off with a biscuit joiner or a router bit, which would help align the pieces better. That's one thing I noticed about the pocket hole jig, it's not easy to keep the pieces properly aligned while driving the screws.

[Jerry Olexa]

I'm in the minority here, but I have a PC biscuit jointer and I love it!!! I use it a lot primarily in glue ups of large solid wood panels. Used it also recently with corner glueups on bracket feet as well as face frames. Handles alignment like a charm..and its fast. Just mho. Works for me but not for everyone!!:) Its like my Kreg pocket hole kit. I'm still discovering new uses for it too and also love it!!

[Keith Outten]

Laurie,

I have used a slotcutting bit in a router to cut splines for edge joints. One consideration is the safety aspect of a large diameter cutter spinning very fast without any type of shielding in a hand held router. There is a considerable peace of mind that comes with using a biscut cutter since they are much safer than the first technique.

There is another option that is cheap and effective. Before biscut cutters and Kreg jigs we used to use wooden dowels. With our without a fancy dowel jig you can get the job done inexpensively and accurately if you are carefull with your layout.

Just a thought :)

.

[Scott Thornton]

I have to agree with Tod. I bought a biscuit jointer...I bought a Porter Cable, really wanted the Lamello...it's the most unused tool I have...

If you want to use a router though, it can be done. I would suggest going to Woodhaven.com and looking at their jig to use your router...I've heard it makes it extremely simple.