choosing a hollowing tool

[Mark Pruitt]

I've started looking at choices for a hollowing tool, and would appreciate some guidance/advice.

There are two tools in particular that I'm looking at. One is the Sorby Multi Tip Hollowing Tool and the other is the Hollowmaster. The Sorby Catalog says of the former, "Recommended first hollowing tool" or some paraphrase of that, but it also touts the virtues of the Hollowmaster.

Having watched the videos on the Sorby website, I have these questions.

The swan neck design of the Hollowmaster leads me to think that it is of limited usefulness if working with narrower vessels, while the straight design of the Multi Tip Hollowing Tool would allow such. Am I correct about this?
The most obvious advantage of the Hollowmaster is its length, and resultant capacity for increased cutting depth. Are there other virtues that would make the Hollowmaster the preferred tool?
Some Creekers have talked of difficulties with the Hollowmaster. IIRC, Lee DeRaud even used the phrase "taming the Hollowmaster" in a thread a few months ago. Is it THAT much more difficult of a tool to use than the Multi Tip Hollowing Tool?As always, your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Mark
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[Jim Becker]

Mark, in a sense you need both a straight tool and a curved tool to effectively hollow "hollow" vessels of a variety of size and shape. You always want to work with the straight tool for boring and getting out the material where you can actually reach with it. (hollowing in steps is a good idea, too, so you leave plenty of material below where you are working to reduce vibration and so forth) You then switch to a curved tool to clean out where the straight tool cannot reach. This holds true when you are hollowing manually or with a captive system.

I owned both of the Sorby tools you are considering and did a lot of my early hollowing work with them. They worked fine, but like any hand-held tool, they had/have limitations. What's good about them is that they are very flexible and versatile.

That said, if you think you will be liking hollow forms, consider investing in the modular systems, such as the Kelton, etc., as they are beefier and the business end can later be used with most captive hollowing systems. The heavy/massive handles can often be used with other tooling, such as un-handled bowl gouges from P&N, OneWay, etc. I think these are a better long-term value for a serious turner if you can afford to jump in now. If not, the Sorbys or similar will do a nice job.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Mark
Jim pretty much covered it. I bought both Sorbey tools your talking about and sometimes enjoyed them and other times not. Size of piece you can create is fairly limited. I never mastered sharpening as instructed.

At the AAW Symposium I sat in the front row of the Trent Bosch demo and marched directly from the demo to his booth in the trade show to buy his 5/8" system. Much easier to use and sharpen and more capacity. And as Jim said I am now working to construct a homemade captured system. I'll add a shear scaper to the Bosch set and I'll be a hollow'in into the night.

On the other hand I make an 'openform' which I can consistently make with the Sorbey set. Good time for a picture.

Frank

[Lee DeRaud]

IIRC, Lee DeRaud even used the phrase "taming the Hollowmaster" in a thread a few months ago. Is it THAT much more difficult of a tool to use than the Multi Tip Hollowing Tool?I don't know if it's harder to use than the MultiTip...because I've never used the MultiTip. :p

But life with the HM got a lot easier once I bought one of the teardrop-shaped "bits" shown in your MultiTip picture. If nothing else, it gives you a lot of choices for profile and angle without having to swap it out: just rotate it to a different segment. And it's way easier to sharpen. (There's obviously a limit on how small an opening you can pass it through, but so it goes.)

[Gary DeWitt]

Jim covered the basics very well. Here's a link to part 1 of a 5 part review of hollowing tools, by a respected, published author. The rest of this site provides many hours of interesting reading as well.
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/hollow-1.pdf

[Mark Pruitt]

Mark, in a sense you need both a straight tool and a curved tool....
Jim,
Heads up! My wife is looking for you and she ain't smilin'!:eek: :eek: :eek: :p :p :p Seriously, point taken. I see what you're saying.

Lee, great idea about using the different tip. That never occurred to me.

Gary, my eyes are hurting.:p Seriously, thanks. I'll give that a read.

Frank, great picture! Is that texturing I see at the top near the rim?

About purchasing a system; I'm not ready to put that kind of $$ into it just yet, given the lathe I currently own. I've kind of decided that I need to upgrade to a larger machine and after that begin looking at what's out there in terms of systems. If I could just find that rich relative out there I could probably make it happen a lot earlier....LOL:p

Thanks for the help,
Mark

[Frank Kobilsek]

Mark,
The dark ring are burnt dots with my smallest tip. The burning texture skips over the strong grain lines of the ambrosia. Got the wood when I visited Crafts Supply for class and got the inspiration for the 'skip' from Lane Phillips. Diameter is about 14" and it stood about 3.5 tall. This piece also has brass tucked into the voids and bug holes. It is the highest priced piece I ever sold. Sold by the little gallery/wine shop that seems to like me. I am told it was given to a professional mountain climber in Colorado as a wedding present.

If you want to try hollowing on the cheap make your own tools from allen wrenches and do small things. My wife has requested 50 Christmas ornaments to be gifts for her staff at school/parish. So I made tools last week and tested making some ornaments, which met with her approval and she started rattling off a list of more people I should make them for. I expect that by Christmas she'll need a 100. A lot of turners make tiny little urns and hollowforms 2 to 3 inches tall max with maybe a 3/8 hole in the top. Nobody is going to feel inside of those.

Frank

[Bernie Weishapl]

Mark I got the Kelton system based on some advice from a couple of turners. I got to try them out and really liked them. You can hog a lot of wood and then shear cut with them. I got the 5/16" mini's and the 5/8" by 15" long units. You get three with each set. Pictures attached of the 5/8" ones.

[Andy Hoyt]

I borrowed a friend's Sorby Hollowmisfit, used it for two sessions, and returned it to him vowing to never ever refer to the tool by its given name, much less lay eyes on it again.

I now have a captured hollowing rig and am pleased as punch with it.

The D-Ring was a most welcome gift; and I have about $230 invested in the boring bar, cutters, laser setup, and homemade rear-rest.

[Pete Jordan]

I just got the Oneway system delivered today. It sure is heavy and I can't wait to get started. It will probably have to wait a few weeks though.

[Mark Pruitt]

I borrowed a friend's Sorby Hollowmisfit, used it for two sessions, and returned it to him vowing to never ever refer to the tool by its given name, much less lay eyes on it again.

:eek: Wow. That sounds bad enough. Care to elaborate a bit? I'd like to hear more of what you observed, Andy.

[Andy Hoyt]

Right here, Mark.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29553

[Mark Pruitt]

I was in Richmond today at a day-long conference, and stopped by Woodcraft on my way out. Walked away with this:
47744

It's not October yet, but they gave me the sale price anyway. I did take a look at the Hollowmaster but I figured I would just start with this one. Someday hopefully I can afford a hollowing rig. But for now this should at least help me wade into the shallow end.

I had thought about both this tool and the Hollowmaster, but Andy done skeeeered me.:eek:

M

[Frank Fusco]

Right here, Mark.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29553

Wouldn't open for me. Couldn't find it in search. :confused:

[Dennis Peacock]

Wouldn't open for me. Couldn't find it in search. :confused:

Worked for me Frank. You can also copy and paste the link in your web browser to see if that would work.

[Dennis Peacock]

Mark,

I know at least 5 people that have, use and like the Lyle Jamieson style captured hollowing setup. You can even make one as all it takes is some 3/4" cold roll steel and a little welding. The most effort that I've found on the Jamieson setup? Is taking time to sharpen the cutter tip. I'm telling you, this setup is about as effortless as can be. With the captured setup, you have the peace of mind to concentrate on your turning instead of the tool, how your holding it..etc...etc...etc. Oh, did I happen to say that I like the Jamieson style setup for hollowing? :rolleyes: :D

[Frank Fusco]

Worked for me Frank. You can also copy and paste the link in your web browser to see if that would work.

I must have a buggie, couldn't open links from other sources today either. As for the C&P, I'm only 20 years new to this computer stuff, shoulda thunk a that. :o

[Mark Pruitt]

Mark,

I know at least 5 people that have, use and like the Lyle Jamieson style captured hollowing setup. You can even make one as all it takes is some 3/4" cold roll steel and a little welding.

Dennis,

I tried my hand at welding when I was about 19 or 20, and I sucked so badly at it that I decided welding is far better left in the hands of others. Maybe I'd be brave enough to try again if I was around that kind of equipment regularly, but the closest I ever come to a welder is when I take my truck for servicing.:rolleyes: I have though learned to never say never.;)

I do appreciate your mentioning the Lyle Jamieson system. I googled it and bookmarked it for reference.

Mark

[Frank Fusco]

I am getting ready to order my first hollowing tools. My questions about what to buy are exactly as stated by Mark in post #1.
I read all the responses, including Andy's relative unhappiness with the swan neck, but kept coming back to what Jim said in post #2.
Most importantly, he said he did a "lot" of hollow turning with the two designs in question. That was significant. If they had been bad choices, methinks he would not have accomplished a "lot" with them.
He did qualify that there are other, more sophisiticated systems available. And, of course, I have seen them in the catalogs. I always seems that to get what you (we/I) want simply means spending more money. :rolleyes:
Bottom line, I'm ordering the 24" Sorby swan and the Sorby multi-tip from Grizzly.
Thanks, y'all.

[Mark Pruitt]

Frank,
What I went with was the Multi-tip hollowing tool alone. Rather than also purchasing a Hollowmaster or other swan neck tool, I decided to wait and someday purchase the system that Dennis was recommending. It's been a month now, and the tool I bought has proven sufficient.
Mark

[Mark Cothren]

I started out with the Sorby SwanNeck... I liked it so much that I gave it away...:rolleyes:

Working with a captive system (as I had been told over and over again) has proven to be so much more effective - consistent wall thickness, rare instances of a catch happening (and that's only when I'm acting dumb), and so much less wear and tear on the arms/joints. IMO you can't beat it.

[Frank Fusco]

I went through all my catalogs today looking for the best prices on the Sorby's. Grizzly wins.
But, I discovered something. All the previous references to the "Hollowmaster" had me slightly confused.
The swan neck Sorby's shown in the Griz catalog are not called "Hollowmasters". But other suppliers have them.
The swan necks in the Griz catalog use teardrop shaped scrapers/cutters. The "Hollowmaster" uses straight cutters similar to the multi-tip tool.
I'll be going with the bullet/ball/teardrop thingys on the swan neck.

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

Hey Mark! Did you look into Don Pencils setup? You can buy his blems @ half off! Been very happy with it. I'm gonna weld myself a captured setup and use his attachment this weekend I hope. I'll make sure to post something up. I don't know Don,just happy with his tools.
http://www.donpencil.com/

P.S. Here's another link for $'s off I just found.
http://www.donpencil.com/WSSPECIALS.htm

[Frank Kobilsek]

Guys,
One note I might add consider shaft size before you buy. I bought the Bosch system at AAW Symposium. I like it much better than the Hollowmasters. What I did not buy was something to use as the smoothing scaper. Our buddy Keith here has me talked into two things 1) buy a Don Pencil bar and scaper and build my own captured system. Now Bosch is 5/8 and Pencil is 3/4 so I guess I'll be talking the brother in law into welding up a captured handle for both sizes. I little foresight on my part might have avoided the problem.
Frank

[Lee DeRaud]

Now Bosch is 5/8 and Pencil is 3/4 so I guess I'll be talking the brother in law into welding up a captured handle for both sizes.Can't you just make a sleeve for the smaller one out of some copper tubing?

[Frank Kobilsek]

Lee,
Seven years of college ... I should have thought of that.
Thanks
Frank

[Frank Fusco]

Hey Mark! Did you look into Don Pencils setup? You can buy his blems @ half off! Been very happy with it. I'm gonna weld myself a captured setup and use his attachment this weekend I hope. I'll make sure to post something up. I don't know Don,just happy with his tools.
http://www.donpencil.com/

P.S. Here's another link for $'s off I just found.
http://www.donpencil.com/WSSPECIALS.htm

I checked it out, looks very good. When my tool buying cookie jar is ready I'm going to buy his big set.
Don't tell anyone else about this. ;)

[Dario Octaviano]

Frank,

I've seen Don Pencil's blems for years now...and planning on getting a set for myself too (as soon as my finances permit :D)

[Howard Kay]

Mark,
I have been using the David Ellsworth tools - the straight boring rod and the straight one with the offset cutter. They work great and will save you some money.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

As a segmented turner, I don't have to do very much deep hollowing. Once in a while, I have to deep-hollow a stave constructed vessel. A new tool called "The Eliminator" is without a doubt, the easiest to use hollowing tool that I've have tried. It comes in two sizes (a third larger size is forth-coming) and it's only available through Parkard. For what it's worth, I highly recommend it.

[Jim Bell]

I bought the complete Jamieson system and am way more than happy. Very easy to use and maintain. As stated above it just allows you to totally focus on the task at hand. I have used sevaral and I like the Jamieson best. Also use a Sorby on occassion for small ornaments , ect.