Vacuum Veneer Pressing Setup-Which One?

[Phil Winn]

A week ago, I posted a picture and some questions for my current project; I am thinking that a Vacuum Veneer Pressing Setup may make my life much easier….and I am thinking that I will also use this setup for many other projects. I would rather buy than build, unless building one myself will result in a much better system (I assembled a Clearvue Cyclone because I thought it was better than the prebuilt Oneida product.) I want to buy a Vacuum Veneer Pressing System once and not have to upgrade later…I am retired, and have too short a time for regrets! While price is important, I would rather pay more and buy from a place with great customer support and service. Any suggestions on which make/brand, model #/name, etc.? Been looking at the following:
1. Vacuum Pressing Systems; www.vacupress.com (http://www.vacupress.com/)
Either the Industrial HiFlo Vacupress Cycling Pump 10 CFM Oil-less Rotary Vane, or
the Standard Professional Vacupress Cycling Pump 5 CFM Oil-less Rotary Vane.
(Compact100)
2. Joewoodworker; www.joewoodworker.com
I have no clue ????
3. Woodcraft; www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5086 (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5086)
4. Veneer Systems INC; www.veneersystems.com/vps.html (http://www.veneersystems.com/vps.html)
5. Some other supplier?
6a. Are the Polyurethane Bags worth the increase in price?
6b. 30mm worthwhile upgrade from 20mm?
6c. For larger pieces of furniture, would a 4’ by 8’ bag be plenty large enough or ?
Thanks so much,
Phil

[John Fry]

Phil,

So you're going to take the plunge, huh? Good for you.

Here are some answers and info,

1) IMHO, Darryl Keil is one of the greatest and most inovative veneering artists of our time. He not only does exceptional woodworking, he makes great veneering equipment and stands behind it.

I have the Industrial HiFlo Vacupress Cycling Pump 10 CFM Oil-less Rotary Vane, but it gets used a lot in a professional setting. Proir to that, I built and sold a bunch of veneered furniture on their little Vacupress 100 that I bought from Rockler. I just eventually burned up the little pump and then I bought the big one.


2) Joe Woodworker is one of the best and most knowledgable sites about veneering, especially if you want to build your own set up. (I'm like you though, I build furniture, and I BUY my tools) ;) Joe can provide most of the supplies you'll ever need too.

3) ??

4) EDIT: These appear to be Darryl Keil's systems. Unless they are much cheaper I'd buy direct from Darryl.

5) ??

6a) Yes! In my opinion poly will last much longer, is less apt to get torn or punctered, and holds and returns to shape better than vinyl. I have used both and now just use poly for my everyday stuff. I do have a roll of vinyl that I bought to make a big honkin' bag once, still hav the bag and the rest of the roll.


6b) Absolutely

6c) This all depends on the work you do, I would sure think so. Most of the time I use a 4' X 4', I also have a 4' X 10', and I have a 5' X 8' (the big honkin' bag referred to above and used it once)



HTH

[tod evans]

phil, i use a system made by qualityvak, it`s a venturi system that will easily handle a 6x16, 2- 4x8`s and a 24' stair bag at the same time. for a good all around bag i`d suggest 20 mil polyurethane. if all you intend to do is flat work a 30 mil will give you longer life. i`ve found that i use vacuum for plain `ol clamping just as much as for veneer, and the ability to use vacuum fixtures is also very handy. spend time on the "phone" talking to the various distributors of vacuum products before you cut a check, if you`ve never used vacuum there`s quite a bit to learn and it`s lots faster and cheaper to do it by phone than by cutting checks......here`s a couple shots of what i use.....02 tod

47649

47650

47651

[Richard Wolf]

I use the Vacupress Standard Professional (5cfm) for my stair building and railing work. It has work great from 5 years. The long bags get expensive and take a beating in the field but should not be a problem for you in the shop.
I never could see a reason to go to the larger 10 cfm, it will suck the bag out quicker, but a minute or two extra is not the problem.

Richard

[Neil Lamens]

Hi Phil:

Vacupress - Standard Professional.....Customer Service exceptional, system is 9 years old without a problem. Have the assessory that enables 3 bags to be run, because I fealt I was not using my UniBond 800 economically.

As for the Poly or vinyl bag,(inderstand I treat them with much care) my approach was for the smaller 4'x4's bags; I purchased vinyl because I fealt I could handle the size of the substrates going into that bag easily and over their use, I have altered the location in the bag of the panels being pressed. The vinyl definitely has more memory than the poly. Very careful to round edges of platens.

For larger panels (ie: bookcase ends and above) purchased the poly bag based on more wear and tear in set-up just from working with bigger panels. Also, if I load up numerous, drawer fronts, doors, or curved work, etc, I go to the poly.

[John Huber]

I have used the Woodcraft vacuum press for about six projects and like it a lot. I use slow-setting adhesive and have let the pump run overnight several times with no significant heating. Like you, I am more interested in getting a system that works reliably than saving the last dollar. In that theme, here are a few things that I learned:

1. Get the best bag. You don't want to be clamping down on a project that you've invested many hours in and then find you have punctured it and the leak spoils the pressure while the glue sets up on you.

2. Be aware that big projects are HEAVY! If you use the thick bearers that are recommended, the sandwich can be unweildly, especially if you don't have a helper. Also big bags take up shop space; mine doesn't want to fold up nice and small.

Welcome to the wonderful world of veneering! John

[Paul Canaris]

Joe Woodworker; nice kit systems at a reasonable price and you can buy your choice of pump off #-bay for a reasonable price; I purchased a Gast. To build the JWW setup takes the better aprt of a day. He's good to deal with as well. The pump recycle time on my set-up is very low (several hours at least), so the pump should last a while as well.

Buy your own vinyl at the local cloth store, it is a fration of the cost. Get other supplies from Joe.

Yes the Polyeurethane is much nicer, but unless I used it at least monthly I would persoanlly not bother.

[John Gregory]

I have the Woodcraft one you showed. Works well for me. My wife and I have a hobbist shop. Other than different bag sizes once in a while, I don't see me needing anything more than what I have. When I purchased it, I had a one day, 25% off any one item coupon. That saved us a grundle.

[Martin Lutz]

I use a VacuPress. Great product, Great Service. IMHO

[Chris Mann]

I've used the Vacupress system and have built the joe woodworker pump. As John said Darryl is one of the best in the biz. If you can afford his system, I'd highly recommend it. I could not, which is why I ended up with the self-built system, which works fine.

I would recommend buying bags from Darryl though. I built my own and have problems with it leaking, mainly thru the clamping end. Vacupress' bags have an easy to use clamp at both ends (it's basically a flexible rod with a slightly bigger sleeve that slips over it.). Having the bag open at both ends makes loading the bag for multiple glue ups really easy.

Also, you can also use the standard pump to run multiple bags, it just takes a bit longer to evacuate the air.

[Ben Abate]

Phil,
Daryl was in Atanta in August at the IWF, he had a show special on almost all his products I believe. I am also interested purchasing one but, I was going to wait a while. If he would be interested in doing a bulk rate possibly if a few guys here want to go in and do a group buy we could all benefit. You could put another post up to see how many of the Creekers were interested in purchasing a system. I have his videos and he sure does a nice job of demostrating the procedure.

If you do a group thing let me know I maybe interested.

Thanks
Ben

[Mitchell Andrus]

I made a Joe woodworker setup for my shop. Works great. Dumpster-dove the motor and pump a decade ago, the mid-50's Gast runs great.

See: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=42474


Mitch

[Joe Jensen]

Here is a link to a suitable pump for $89. I will require you to add a filter and maybe a muffler.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006092815534620&item=4-1540&catname=air

This pump is powerful enough, and rated for continuous service, so you don't need the complex dump valve setup. You can let this run at full vacuum for days at a time.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I tried a continuous duty pump once - just once. It ran fine and made a great vacuum for about 20 minutes then it overheated. Vacuum was gone til the thing cooled off about 30 minutes later. Of course, the workpiece was ruined.

It's so easy to put a 'mac' valve and auto sensor switch in the piping, why not do it right and be sure the motor won't trip off?

Mitch