Needing Bit Set for Rail & Stile with Glass doors........

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

....OK the Wine shelves are done, they just need to get out of my workshop!

Next is the Cigar Display Humidor, think China cabinet with glass doors. I need a rail and stile kind of set for making these..........

I see this set from MLCS............

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/orderstatus/html/smarthtml/graphics3/rsglass56.jpg

$69.00...........??


2 flute, carbide tipped. Easily create great looking glass doors with the same profile on the inside and outside of the glass with our matched 2 bit set. The special design allows you to make a matching profile glass bead retaining strip when used with a 1/8” straight bit or 1/8” saw blade. Use for curio cabinets, entertainment centers, and kitchen cabinet doors.
Anyone have any exp with this bit or can you steer me to a similar kind of thing?

usually $118, on sale for $69..........

Cheers!

[tod evans]

stu, i`ve found that without reinforcing the cope joint with either dowells or tennons or even gluing the glass in place that the doors joined using this type of bit are not very strong. for a high traffic aplication like a public humidor i`d go with standard mortise-n-tennon construction and either miter the sticking cut or apply loose sticking......02 tod

[Bob Reda]

Stu,

I've use the CMT glass door bits with the rubber like glass hold down. I've made glass doors for China cupboards that are 4" tall and don't have any problem. But like Todd says, this is not a commerical application and I think I would re-enforce the joints somehow.

Bob

[tod evans]

here ya` go stu, just remove the panel and install glass.....tod

47500

47501

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, so you just put the glass in there like a panel, but what happens if the glass is ever broken?

This will be in my L shop, so the public has access to it, therefore, I think it is good to plan for that kind of thing....?

Cheer!

[tod evans]

after assembly remove the back side of the sticking creating a rabbit instead of a dado. then install the glass using loose sticking and brads...tod

[Art Mulder]

Stu...

Why not just put a rabbet along the inside of the door opening, and hold the glass in with clips?

That is what I did with the door on my stereo stand, 10 years ago when I was just getting started. Sure it ain't the finest of fine ww'ing, but it does the job.

Here, I took a snapshot:
47502

I'd also be concerned about public access. If glass was mandatory, I'd be sure that it was tempered glass. If not, I'd go with a clear plexiglass (or similar) panel.

[Joe Unni]

Stu...
Why not just put a rabbet along the inside of the door opening, and hold the glass in with clips?


Ditto. This is what I have done and it works fine.

Good luck,
-joe

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu...

Why not just put a rabbet along the inside of the door opening, and hold the glass in with clips?

That is what I did with the door on my stereo stand, 10 years ago when I was just getting started. Sure it ain't the finest of fine ww'ing, but it does the job.

Here, I took a snapshot:
47502

I'd also be concerned about public access. If glass was mandatory, I'd be sure that it was tempered glass. If not, I'd go with a clear plexiglass (or similar) panel.

No disrespect meant, but that does not look finished enough for this project.

When the customer is standing there while I select their cigars, I don't want then looking at plastic clips holding in the glass.

I'm going to spring for Cherry or some other NICE wood and do the best job I can on this unit.

http://www.cheaphumidors.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/HUM-50001.gif
Think something like this, but double wide, with some drawers dividing the base storage area from the top display area.

I want it to look really snazzy :D

Again, no disrespect meant, and thanks for the input.

Cheers!

[Art Mulder]

No disrespect meant, but that does not look finished enough for this project.

When the customer is standing there while I select their cigars, I don't want then looking at plastic clips holding in the glass.

...

I want it to look really snazzy


No disrespect is taken, Stu. But I gotta say, you should have expected this. The last project that you built for the store was basic wooden shelves - you didn't even finish them! And you tell us the customers like the raw wood look. So who would expect that your next piece for the liquor shop was going to be so.... french provincial with federal influences? :rolleyes:

And really, Tod's comments about securing a wooden strip with brads is basically the same thing that I suggested, just using a wooden tack strip instead of clips. ;) Th glass is still, basically, sitting in a rabbet.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey, who said I was consistant? ;)

The wine shelves are just that, but a large cigar display humidor is much more, it has to be a controled constant enviorment for the cigars, when you are paying anywhere from $5 to $100 a smoke, the have to be taken care of, then there is the whole image for the customer, got to look nice.

Thanks again for the input!

Cheers!

[tod evans]

stu, look at mahogany for your show wood, it deals well with the humidity variations of a humidor and is a classy wood. of course spanish cedar for the lining.. also be sure to research your weatherstripping(seals) before you build the doors so you know what you`re dealing with instead of having to retrofit later.....02 tod

[Al Killian]

Stu, I have seen brass hold downs that you could use to hold the glass in place or they have the clear which wouldnt stick out much at all. Good luck with your project.

[Brent Harral]

Stu, being this thing is going in your L shop, I'd rout the rabbet in the back so if it is ever broken, it would be an easier fix. Mill a backer strip - you could even put a little profile on it of the same wood and then pin into place to secure the glass.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu, being this thing is going in your L shop, I'd rout the rabbet in the back so if it is ever broken, it would be an easier fix. Mill a backer strip - you could even put a little profile on it of the same wood and then pin into place to secure the glass.
Hi ya Brent :D

yeah, that is the idea, I'm going to try to make it work with the set I have now, and see what I can come up with, pictures surely to follow! :D

Cheers!

[John Fry]

Stu,

I have used, and like, the Freud "recoverable bead" set. It looks just like the picture of the set you have in your original post.

These sets cut a 1/8" groove for the glass vs. the 1/4" that regular door sets create. The "bead" is the exact same profile as the front/outer bead and when installed, it looks exactly the same on the outside as on the inside. Some folks install the bead with a pin nailer, but I glue it in. I tell my clients that if the glass ever breaks, they will have to send the door back to me for repair, (or whole cabinet if the the sides are glass too). I would remove the broken the glass, rout and chisel out the glued in bead, use the bit set to cut another bead, re-install, refinish, and then charge them more money.;)

It makes a very classy and high quality looking rail and stile with glass.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the info John.

I very much like the idea of the inside looking as nice as the outside for this display humidor, as it will have the doors open when a customer is selecting cigars.

I'll look for the Freud set as well.

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

John, I think I found the set, this one............??

http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/rep/router_bits/Router_Bits/Cabinet_Door/346_RECBEADGLASS_A.jpg

there are three profiles, this is one of them.

Cheers!

[Rich Torino]

Stu,
I've made several sets of glass doors and have used the finished tack strip to hold the glass in. Gives a finished look to the project. Since I don't have a pin nailer and have used brads I found out (the hard way) that if you pre drill the tack strip with a pin drill it makes tapping the brads in a lot easier and less uneventfull...

[John Fry]

John, I think I found the set, this one............??

http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/rep/router_bits/Router_Bits/Cabinet_Door/346_RECBEADGLASS_A.jpg

there are three profiles, this is one of them.

Cheers!

That's it Stu, In fact that's the profile I have. The picture of the MLCS set may be their "version" of the Freud set and you could save some money, but I only have experience with the Freud.

[Randal Stevenson]

Might I ask a stupid question? I don't know what are your regulations since you are over there, but here in my state, in a public place, they would require safety glass. Which should hold up to a bit more abuse, although can be a different thickness.
Have you called around to check on it?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Might I ask a stupid question? I don't know what are your regulations since you are over there, but here in my state, in a public place, they would require safety glass. Which should hold up to a bit more abuse, although can be a different thickness.
Have you called around to check on it?

Yes Randal, the glass could not be just plain old window glass, but we don't see much of that anyways, as we have a LOT of earthquakes :eek:

The glass I would get is that standard around here, it is tempered with a VERY thin, invisible coating that in the event of breakage, the glass stays in one sheet. We also have that on windows for anti-theft, you can hit this stuff with a hammer, and while it breaks, or shatters, it does not fall into pieces so the thief cannot get their hand in to open a window, for example.

Rich, thanks for the tip, and John F. thanks for the confirmation, I think I may go for the Freud set, as I have these doors to make, and a bunch of others too for another looming project............. man, am I EVER going to get to turn some stuff on my lathe again....? ;) :D

[Paul Engle]

Hi Stu,
I did a solid cherry display for a taxidermy out fit and used wood strips 1/4 round on the out side set in a shouldered dado just over the width of the glass with small brass screws to hold the strip, mitre the ends , it looked great with the brass furniture/ hinges etc.

[Ken Consaul]

I've done doors as shown but ran the stile across the full length of the bottom, then countersunk for small diameter brass screws to fasten the bottom stile on. If the glass breaks, you remove the screws and stile to replace. If the countersunk holes are objectionable, you could put tapered plugs in them.

[Matt Warfield]

I've done doors as shown but ran the stile across the full length of the bottom, then countersunk for small diameter brass screws to fasten the bottom stile on. If the glass breaks, you remove the screws and stile to replace. If the countersunk holes are objectionable, you could put tapered plugs in them.

Just curious, but what if the hinged rail were removeable and the hinge screws were extra long to securing the adjoining stiles? Not sure what size of screws your hinges would take but it would be invisible to anyone. Relying on screws for that joint probably isn't very high on the stable list as it's going into end grain. Hmmm, nevermind. :D

[Ken Consaul]

Look for the 99-264 in the Freud. Its a chamfered profile, less busy, and can be used with several different styles of furniture. Using a classic or Ogee doesn't fit with A&C or Modern styles. Just my opinion but it gets you a more versatile profile without buying multiple sets at a C-note a whack.
Also, earlier comment regarding using screws through the stiles to the rails. I think this would work for the doors as the joint isn't going to get much work. Essentially it will be the weight of the glass. Long doors as pictured aren't going to be gripped by the bottom. While and end grain joint screwed together isn't the best solution it does solve the problem of making the glass replaceable.