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Bruce Volden
09-23-2006, 9:19 PM
I have to relate this story as I was thinking it over AGAIN. Back in 1995 about 5 months after I bought my first machine I was approached by a gunstock mfgr. They sent me 3-4 stocks to engrave, along with the logo.
I burned them and sent them back. About 2 weeks later I got a call from them and they wanted to know if I could engrave 300,000 of them and get them turned around in 4 months!!!! So, I feel I can brag about the fact that I turned down a $2,100,000.00 job!!! Has anyone else out there had to turn down a BIG job????


I now have 3 machines. I still could not output that kind of order!


Bruce

David Sabot
09-24-2006, 12:15 AM
Bruce,

That is an awesome order. While I have never turned down something so large, if that opportunity came across my desk I would have figured out some way to make it work. For example, you might have been able to send the order overseas to have it done or perhaps purchased or leased several more machines and staff to finish the order. The amount of money you are talking about would have made me figure out something creative.

Mike Hood
09-24-2006, 12:42 AM
That's 120 days... 25,000 a day... can't see it happening.

:)

Harry Radaza
09-24-2006, 3:08 AM
tough one.

for my part, I recently had an order for 3,000 plaque awards. I had 2 machines at that time and lots of other orders for the job shop. I took the order and was given 30 days to do it. We had to go 24 hours for a month. I jobbed out my other jobshop orders to my dealers who gave me a low price ( enough to still mark up ).

be creative....

Al Mutairi
09-24-2006, 7:51 AM
That's 120 days... 25,000 a day... can't see it happening.

:)

Correction ..... 2,500 a day. 2500 x120 = 300,000

Bruce Volden
09-24-2006, 4:05 PM
Bruce,

That is an awesome order. While I have never turned down something so large, if that opportunity came across my desk I would have figured out some way to make it work. For example, you might have been able to send the order overseas to have it done or perhaps purchased or leased several more machines and staff to finish the order. The amount of money you are talking about would have made me figure out something creative.


Has anyone (I haven't) contracted overseas? I would feel quite nervous with quality control, turn around, language etc...

I did contact my laser mfgr. and had them run down what would be necessary to accomplish something like this~turns out it would have been fairly easy (their words). They could build me a "galvo" system and I could have done 3 at a time in about 20 seconds (they said, again) cost of system?

$180,000~build time, 4 months!!


Bruce

Dave Chase
09-24-2006, 5:37 PM
That's a lot of stocks. What did they want you to engrave? I used to work in the firearms industry and the only thing that would reqiure that volume is the checkering which was diamond cut using a 4-axis router. Typically engraved stocks are one-of-a-kinds. Just out of curiosity, who was the gunstock manufacturer?

Bruce Volden
09-24-2006, 9:54 PM
That's a lot of stocks. What did they want you to engrave? I used to work in the firearms industry and the only thing that would reqiure that volume is the checkering which was diamond cut using a 4-axis router. Typically engraved stocks are one-of-a-kinds. Just out of curiosity, who was the gunstock manufacturer?


Boyds gunstocks, Mitchell SD. Red Ryder BB guns!!!


Bruce

Barbara Buhse
09-25-2006, 1:48 PM
Thats a huge order, i definitely would have found a way (or tried to!)
If I ever get something that big, I guess I would spread it around this forum... :)
Barbara

Mike Hood
09-25-2006, 2:51 PM
Most large jobs require "performance bonds" from smaller companies. You might be looking at $20,000 up front just to accept the deal. Those are non-refundable at that. :)

Lots of reasons not to bite off more than you can chew. 300,000 pieces would require a LOT of logistics as well (shipping, demurage, warehousing, packing materials & facilities) not to mention the lasers and production efforts.

300,000 is a BIG job... no matter how you look at it.

Joe Pelonio
09-25-2006, 3:10 PM
Performance bonds are common in the building industry and for public agencies, including signage.

I will not bid a job requiring one. There's no use spending time bidding on something that you may or may not be able handle. Things happen. I have a backup plotter, but still have no control over things like power failures or illness. Then too you risk losing other customers that you cannot serve while doing that one job. With laser work you have even more risk since a malfunction or operator error can ruin someone else's material.

I wonder if they would have written you a check for $1,050,000 for the 50% in advance.

Dave Jones
09-25-2006, 4:56 PM
LOL.

Probably would be lucky to get them to make the first payment 120 days down the line.

Bruce Volden
09-25-2006, 5:58 PM
Mike, Joe, Dave,


You guys are talking way over my head!!:) I'm just a one horse operation out here on the plains. Why, it would cost me big bucks talking to a lawyer just to interpret what you said! I know, I know, I was the fella that always thought he was a little bit brighter just cuz I had 6 years of high school:)


Bruce

Joe Pelonio
09-25-2006, 6:23 PM
Bruce,
I know you're kidding, but count your blessings. I'm in Bellevue, east of Seattle, where the population is not much over 100,000 but it's a real hot spot for business growth, new skyscrapers, malls and multi story condo complexes being built like crazy. Some of our potential customers have teams of lawyers to go over contracts and a department of purchasing people to put handle bidding. We also have to provide copies of insurance certificates and somethimes even have our credit checked to be a provider.

It's hard for someone like me when there are many other sign shops with 50+ employees and people on staff just to respond to bid requests. Be glad you can make a living without those headaches.

Mike Hood
09-25-2006, 9:48 PM
I can vouch for that Joe. I just took a job cutting some Rosewood panels for a local guitar maker up here and I was shocked at how low other laser shops were willing to go to get his business. It was a pretty cool design, so I took the work, but definitely not getting rich. :)

What would you typically charge fo vector cutting 3/8" hardwoods like Rosewood?

Joe Pelonio
09-26-2006, 8:48 AM
I can vouch for that Joe. I just took a job cutting some Rosewood panels for a local guitar maker up here and I was shocked at how low other laser shops were willing to go to get his business. It was a pretty cool design, so I took the work, but definitely not getting rich. :)

What would you typically charge for vector cutting 3/8" hardwoods like Rosewood?
I pretty much charge $60/hour labor and $1/minute laser time for most things. If someone says they can get it done for less somewhere else I don't play that game, I'll tell them to go ahead then. For 3/8" hardwood which is barely within the power range of my machine I think I'd bump it up to $1.50/minute. Yesterday I turned a guy down for a job that was 3/8" ABS. Really stinky stuff and tough to do with 45 watts.

Mike Hood
09-26-2006, 10:40 AM
He was using Terene in Mukilteo, but they were treating him like such a small fish, he needed better service. He showed me the invoice for the last they did for hime, but you're right. 3/8" Rosewood is slow going on my machine. Coming in at $1.50 / minute will be about right I suspect. I can wizz through in 6:16 minutes and still make it worth my time.

It's good to see someone relatively nearby on here. :)

Joe Pelonio
09-26-2006, 12:08 PM
He was using Terene in Mukilteo, but they were treating him like such a small fish, he needed better service. He showed me the invoice for the last they did for hime, but you're right. 3/8" Rosewood is slow going on my machine. Coming in at $1.50 / minute will be about right I suspect. I can wizz through in 6:16 minutes and still make it worth my time.

It's good to see someone relatively nearby on here. :)
What size is your machine? I recently turned someone away because he had material 20x30 and 12x32 to engrave and my Legend is 12x24.