12 foot Wenge dining table

[Mark Singer]

I have been working on this 12' long wenge dining table. The wood is beautiful! Real nasty to work with though...:rolleyes:

Most of the work I have done on the table is pretty typical. So I will only mention a few points...

For joining boards this size it is better to straight line with a router and a straight edge or a guided saw...I used the Festool saw and I only have 2 - 4 foot rails so I had to move them and align them.. Picking up the boards and running them through a jointer is not an option.....too heavy and too long....a jointer plane and a power hand planer using an 8 foot aluminium straight edge and reading the edge. When joining clamp tap together....clamp in another spot ...tap together....etc...the better job you do the less work latter....I don't have a machine that will plane or drum sand a 12 foot x 18" wenge plank....so hand work is a requirement and if you are careful will yeild a much better job....

The legs are doubled 8/4 so essentially 16/4 . I didn't want to see the seam so I mitered out a 3/8" dado and filled with a solid wenge fascia on the rip miter. This is real handy to know and most woods are not available in 16/4 especially exotics like wenge. This solution is invisible and pretty easy to do. Trim the fascias on a jointer with the fence at 45 degrees...I haven't seen this one in books and I have found it a valuable trick for many years...The oak coffee table I made used similar details...

I recently bought the set of Lie Neilsen hand scrapers....they are terrific! Better than Sandvik never thought I woud say that... The steel is really good! They come jointed and have a mini burr right from the maker! Really a great tool and as good as their planes ..!


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=34542&highlight=coffee+table

[Dennis Peacock]

Thanks Mark. I was wondering about the difference in the scrapers from LN vs the Sandvik that I have now. May have to give those a try. ;)

It's going to be a nice table. Can't say it's one of my favorite woods to work with, but beautiful still the same.

[jonathan snyder]

Mark,

That looks like a useful trick to hide the gluelines on the legs, but I'm not following how you cut the mitered 3/8" dado? Would you please elaborate?

By the way, thanks for taking the time to share your wealth of knowledge us!!

Jonathan

[Mark Singer]

Mark,

That looks like a useful trick to hide the gluelines on the legs, but I'm not following how you cut the mitered 3/8" dado? Would you please elaborate?

By the way, thanks for taking the time to share your wealth of knowledge us!!

Jonathan

Jonathan,
Before the 2, 8/4 boards are face laminated , I rip miter right on the edge about 3/8" deep. Then remove the 3/8 thick piece to the miter cut you just made. Now when they are laminated it leaves a mitered dado chanel. This end right on the corner of the board...see photo... Now I cut solid pieces to fill the void and hide the lamination....they are glued in place and held with clamps...other photo. Then sand or plane the corners...see the link to the dining table that was all 4/4 and it looks like 16/4 with continuous grain... I use a digital caliper to set depths on the table saw and try the cuts on a scrap first....The table saw is a great tool if you really get into it...not physically though:confused:

[jonathan snyder]

Mark,

I understand. That is a great idea. I will try it. One of the disadvanteges to being a woodworker in Alaska is that lumber is expensive and not readily available. We have one store here in Anchorage which sells hardwood, but mostly has 4/4 stuff. Sometimes they have 6/4 in certain species. You trick will come in handy.

Thanks
Again

[Mike Cutler]

You're shop floor looks like mine right now with all of the wenge "hairs" on the floor.
That's going to be a beautiful table if all of the wenge boards are that clear in grain Mark. That's some nice material.

[Alan Turner]

Mark,
Neat trick on the legs. I have not seen that before, but will file it away for future reference.

[Richard Wolf]

Nice work, nice wood. I bet that scraper got some heat building up on it!

Richard

[Kelly C. Hanna]

That's a fantastic solution to a big problem you have there Mark. I love the idea. Can't wait to see the table finished!

[Doug Shepard]

...
Trim the fascias on a jointer with the fence at 45 degrees......


Mark - cool trick, but is there a secret to keeping the edges parallel when doing this on the jointer? Are you just roughing the 45 on the jointer then sneaking up on the seamless fit with handplanes or is your jointer and technique just way better than mine?

That's going to be a great looking table but I'm sure glad I won't have to lift it.

[Mark Singer]

Mark - cool trick, but is there a secret to keeping the edges parallel when doing this on the jointer? Are you just roughing the 45 on the jointer then sneaking up on the seamless fit with handplanes or is your jointer and technique just way better than mine?

That's going to be a great looking table but I'm sure glad I won't have to lift it.

Doug,
First of all care needs to be taken to make sure the legs and fascias are square in both directions. Then on the table saw with a Board Buddy front and back to apply downward pressure, I cut the rip miters . If your table saw technique is good the fit off the tablesaw is real good to start with. I left them a bit fat so I could trim them to fit at the jointer. I make the Fascias about 1/16 thicker also. This allows you to roundover down to the miter useing a scraper slightly inclined . At the jointer use 2 push blocks , one front and one back and push into the 45 ...so the pressure is down and also against the fence. When you hear the cut move the push blocks on the second pass....try it in a leg ...until you have a good fit. Since I resawed these from the same stock I can match the grain patterns on each leg....this is a big advantage over solid stock...just look at any of Krenov's door pairs....the bookmatching is from " real veneer" resawn from the same piece...It is a detail that elevates the quality to the next level.....and on a 3 1/2" by 6" leg pair it is not an obvious solution as with door pairs. You can use hand planes on the miters and there is enough surface to support the plane or you can rip a pair of MDF runners at a 45 and shoot the edges with a plane....the jointer works fine and the grain of this coarse wood is an advantage here.

[Martin Lutz]

I love the technique for the legs. Wish I would have thought of it. thanks for sharing.

[Don Baer]

Always the teacher, Mark. Thats for shareing. Thats going to be a great table.

[Ed Kowaski]

Neat trick on the legs Mark, hopefully filled away for a rainy day, thanks!

Though it's a little labor intensive. I'd probably take the easy way and resaw matching veneers to cover the join instead. One could run that over a jointer or planer if needed to get the required thinness. Once the edge is broken the joint would dissappear. I'm sure I would have better luck getting a tight seam that way but then I'm a miter hater from way back. ;)

[Mark Singer]

Ed,
The mitered fascias are essentially like corks going in a bottle. As long as all the angles are 45 degrees then the surfaces at the joint are in contact. Then you can plane or sand or round slightly to remove the excess and make a perfect joint. It reall is pretty easy...and you don't have to be carefull in dealing with a delicate veneer

[Roy Wall]

Ed,
The mitered fascias are essentially like corks going in a bottle. As long as all the angles are 45 degrees then the surfaces at the joint are in contact. Then you can plane or sand or round slightly to remove the excess and make a perfect joint. It reall is pretty easy...and you don't have to be carefull in dealing with a delicate veneer

Mark -

Did you rip the facias on the BS, then face plane, then rip the 45* miters?

[Mark Singer]

Mark -

Did you rip the facias on the BS, then face plane, then rip the 45* miters?

Roy they were first ripped with square edges on the table saw....then edge jointed...run through the drum sander to thickness...a little fat....then rip on the tablesaw to 45 degrees....the bandsaw is not as accurate and the blade...even the trimaster leaves a saw texture...I used a 24 tooth Mastercut rip blade The Board buddies insure the wood is on the table surface and the cut is accurate...if the piece moves up and down you made garbage:rolleyes:

[Doug Shepard]

Thanks for adding the details. I mistakenly thought from your first post that the entire miter was being done on the jointer instead of just retouching the edge. It all makes more sense now.

[Jim Becker]

And I learn yet another thing from one of the masters! Thanks for that leg "trick" Mark!!

[Mark Singer]

And I learn yet another thing from one of the masters! Thanks for that leg "trick" Mark!!

Jim, the leg trick will work for any other components that require lamination and the desire is for a solid continuous grain piece.

Careful table saw layout, measuring, blade height and making trial samples of profiles on scrap will reduce further machine and hand work....a caliper is terrific for this ....using the blade extension to transfer measurements....that is the thin part that projects out of the tail ...a sample on scrap insures the profile...

[Ed Kowaski]

Well one thing for sure Mark, no matter how you do it these are the details that seperate the very good from the pretty good. I don't think most civilians or for that matter most woodworkers conciously notice this type of detail but I strongly believe they feel it. The piece makes you relaxed and happy, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)

[lou sansone]

hi mark
good tip on the leg...I would not have thought of making the mitered dado ahead of time before the glue up. looking forward to the rest of the story
lou

[Mark Singer]

The attached plan shows the structure so you have an idea of the joinery...the top will appear to "float" over the legs as in trays I have made...The second drawing shows a "cut list" base on boards i have. Withe the cost of wenge waste is a factor and I like to maximize the use of the stock...a sketch of each board and how it will break down into parts is real helpful

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9543&highlight=tray

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9642&highlight=tray

[Mark Singer]

I roughed out the legs . I set up a quick great bandsaw table for cross cutting large thick components...too big for my tablesaw and chop saw.. It has a full miter slot and cutts real square. I shaped the legs in pairs after cutting curve on bandsaw. Then I made the mortices on the MM slot mortiser and set up the base dry to check everything.. I tried with a chair and moved the long stretchers (beams) in for knee clearance. These mortises are cut with the Festool router a spiral and a nice set-up using the guide rail ....seting 2 stretchers together ...squaring the guide rail and moving the router back and forth lowering each pass a bit. The yellow tape sets the limits...Top of the leg shows the nice fit got on the fascia infill pieces...the grain almost continues...

[Mark Singer]

Take a look please:rolleyes:

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Wow, even looking right at that end grain, I had to crane to see the joint lines....very nicely done Mark.

[Mike Cutler]

Nice work. Very, very nice work.

How is that guided rail system on the router for speed, accuracy, and repeatability? I've been considering one to release me from the tedium of making full size templates unnecessarily.

Once again Mark. Very nice work.

[Mark Singer]

Nice work. Very, very nice work.

How is that guided rail system on the router for speed, accuracy, and repeatability? I've been considering one to release me from the tedium of making full size templates unnecessarily.

Once again Mark. Very nice work.


Mike I have the MM slot mortiser on my Elite S and that handles most situations . The Festool router with the guide rail is very good . It depends how well uou set it up of course. I find it more accuarate then most templates i have made....and I have made many and still do for many things. If things are a touch off , I sand or rasp te tenon then number them and put an arrow on for up....that way the sets are matched and you know at glue up everything fits just right,,,,

[John Miliunas]

Good grief, Mark! Every time I look at one of your new projects, you always seem to be taking it to the "next level"! :) Fantastic! I love the "fills" on the legs and that BS table extension is neat! BTW, how do you actually have it attached to the BS? I think some details of that setup itself would be of great use to many! :) Keep those progress pics coming. As always, great job, my friend! :D :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,
The only short coming of my Aggazzani Band saw is the shallow miter slot and like most bandsaws sometimes the table is not big enough....short for cross cutting with no leading table forward of the blade. The table extension adds 8" in front and 24" on the right. Which gives a lot of support when added to the existing table. 2 calmps secure it.....it really only taks a couple of minutes to install and less to remove. There is a built up edge that drops into the gap between the fence rail and the table and another on the side...a clamp secures the droped edge to the cast iron table . My outfeed stand levels the edge to the right

Thanks for your nice coments... I am just using things I learned mostly by doing and once in a while I come up with a new thing that actually works....keep in mind the thousands of things that don't work mever get posted:rolleyes:

[John Miliunas]

John,
The only short coming of my Aggazzani Band saw is the shallow miter slot and like most bandsaws sometimes the table is not big enough....short for cross cutting with no leading table forward of the blade. The table extension adds 8" in front and 24" on the right. Which gives a lot of support when added to the existing table. 2 calmps secure it.....it really only taks a couple of minutes to install and less to remove. There is a built up edge that drops into the gap between the fence rail and the table and another on the side...a clamp secures the droped edge to the cast iron table . My outfeed stand levels the edge to the right

Thanks for your nice coments... I am just using things I learned mostly by doing and once in a while I come up with a new thing that actually works....keep in mind the thousands of things that don't work mever get posted:rolleyes:

Simple, yet quite effective, by the looks of it! Thanks for the super idea. I can see one of those in my future. :) :cool:

[Chris Mire]

Mark,

The table is looking great, I absolutely love the design. very clean and very inventive. The top appears to be in two sections with a small gap between. Is there a reason for this other than a design aspect of the piece.

Your attention to detail is top notch. Thanks for sharing your techniques and the great pics with us. keep up the great work.

chris

[Mark Singer]

Mark,

The table is looking great, I absolutely love the design. very clean and very inventive. The top appears to be in two sections with a small gap between. Is there a reason for this other than a design aspect of the piece.

Your attention to detail is top notch. Thanks for sharing your techniques and the great pics with us. keep up the great work.

chris

Chris,
The reveal and actual 2 piece top is for several design reasons. It reduces the lateral wood movement in half. In makes the size and weight more manageable. Each half weighs 180 pounds! Wenge weighs 60 lbs per cubic foot which is 10 lbs per sf of 2" thick material. This way 2 people can carry half and it is easier to build. The other design aspct is the split defines the seating layout....there are 5 people on each side ...each one has approx 29" of 18" wide area ....see my previous table and chair link....the table was similar , only 10 ft long...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5430&highlight=wenge+table

[Chris Mire]

WOW!

I had no idea it was so heavy. That makes total sense then. I also like your reason of defining each persons space, very well thought out.

Can't wait to see more pics

Thanks
Chris

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Mark,
See, we do read your how-to posts, even without pics of Selma.

I read your thread on inserting a mitered dado over laminations with interest and, I have to confess, some skepticism - at least of my own ability to make it work.

Well, I tried it on poplar and it came out pretty darn good. Next step, dining table legs out of 8/4 walnut.

Thanks for your posts, they are very helpful!

[Mark Singer]

Hey Mark,
See, we do read your how-to posts, even without pics of Selma.

I read your thread on inserting a mitered dado over laminations with interest and, I have to confess, some skepticism - at least of my own ability to make it work.

Well, I tried it on poplar and it came out pretty darn good. Next step, dining table legs out of 8/4 walnut.

Thanks for your posts, they are very helpful!

Jesse ,
excellent work on the tablesaw! As you can see the bottom dimension of te dado is most important!

[Joe Blankshain]

Mark,

Just ran accross this thread and all I can say is thanks for some more great instruction/sharing of your wisdom. These threads are why more folks should spend time in the Creek.

[Mark Singer]

Mark,

Just ran accross this thread and all I can say is thanks for some more great instruction/sharing of your wisdom. These threads are why more folks should spend time in the Creek.

Joe,
Thanks! I enjoy posting techniques and little tricks I have learned....things things make woodworking fun and many are very easy.....the best thing for me is the reward of seeing someone use the techniques in making a piece, like Jesse!

[Scott Thornton]

Mark:

Is there any downside to using your trick and putting different woods in the middle? i.e. a cheaper wood?

[Mark Singer]

Mark:

Is there any downside to using your trick and putting different woods in the middle? i.e. a cheaper wood?

That is ok too! You are just veneering the exteriror then with a miter

[Mark Singer]

I have been making some progress. I am using General Finishes on the top for durability...Arm R Seal satin. The base is finished with Daly's Ben Matte and once I wax it , it will matt the sheen a little. I intentionally coopered the top about 1/8" to soften the appearance. A single screw to the frame can remove about half of that. Convex is a much better look then concave and under span tops tend to go concave. It was risky to try to get the 2 halves equal in camber...but it came out good . It is vey subtle and unconventional...but adds character. We always try to get tops flat, I know;)

The boards were planned by hand since they were too big to run through the jointer. The top hand scraped and sanded to 320...then #0000 steel wool between coats. I limited the Arm R Seal to about 1lin foot of top and then rubbed out with a seperate rag ....it dries fast! I still think Daly's is easier...this is my 3rd piece with Arm R Seal and I am learning to deal with it a little.

[Jim Becker]

That looks great, Mark! I see you may have gone a little darker with this one...am I remembering things clearly?

[Mark Singer]

That looks great, Mark! I see you may have gone a little darker with this one...am I remembering things clearly?


Jim,
The sunlight really lightens Wenge ....there is no stain in what your seeing just clear. A couple of months in the dining room under the skylight and it will change a lot!

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Mark. I've never worked with this species, so it's properties are not familiar to me.

[Mark Singer]

Here is a pic of the old one....the character and figure is enhanced with ultraviolet

http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3568&d=1071772879

[Dave Shively]

Mark,

Great idea with the legs! Never would have thought of that. Can't wait to see the finished table.

Dave.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Lookin' good Mark!

[Brett Baldwin]

I really enjoy the understated character of your pieces. Thanks for sharing both your work and your techniques.

[Dan Gill]

This is a prime example of why I love the Creek. Great examples of beautiful work and useful tips/techniques. Also nice design and good feedback from everyone. Keep Creeking!

[Mark Singer]

This is a prime example of why I love the Creek. Great examples of beautiful work and useful tips/techniques. Also nice design and good feedback from everyone. Keep Creeking!

Dan,
Thanks....I enjoy the tutorial threads and the finished work threads a great deal. For one thing they are not that controversial....on tools I have gotten a lot of great tips from fellow members and all can be discussed if done in a nice civil tone....we all know that the skill and technique is far more important than the brand of tool....so I think learning is the most powerful thing we can share....that is really what has built SMC!

[John Schreiber]

I intentionally coopered the top about 1/8" to soften the appearance. A single screw to the frame can remove about half of that. Convex is a much better look then concave and under span tops tend to go concave.
Your project, like all your work is beautiful.

What do you mean by coopered? My only understanding of that would be barrel shaped in some way. Are you saying that length-ways on the table, it's an eighth taller in the middle, so that if it sags later it will be level? Or is it arched like a bridge in compression to keep it from sagging? Or am I misunderstanding?

Love to learn from what you are doing.

[Mark Singer]

John,
The table is comprised of 2 -18" wide planks that will have a 3/8" gap between them. In the 18" cross section I developed a slight crown,,,,or rasied center of about 1/8". A couple of reasons. ... sometimes the bottom tends to absorb more moisture from the air and iit will expand making it concave. Also under span it will tend to go concave. Cocave on the top has a bad feeling....it is hard and unwelcoming....if it is slightly convex , it will flatten over time and looks soft and when 2 of these "pillow like" planks are side by side...it looks intentional and hand wrought....you don't send it through a wide belt sander and end up coopered....it is only done by hane and careful attention in the glue up and hand planning stages. If I clamp and tighten the center set of screws most of the cooper will flatten....as the wood expands it will flatten also.

[J.R. Rutter]

I like your leg gluing method!

I did a table a while ago in tiger maple and we did a similar, but different leg glue-up. We ripped riftsawn 8/4 stock at 45 degrees to make a couple of triangular cross section parts, then glued them together so that the wide bases were face-to-face. Then some careful cleanup gave corner seams that could be shaped with a template so that the seam still ran in the corner even with the curved outside faces. The disadvantage for square or rectangualr legs is that you can't go as thick overall this way.

Great table, thanks for sharing the process pics.

[Walt Caza]

The legs are doubled 8/4 so essentially 16/4 . I didn't want to see the seam so I mitered out a 3/8" dado and filled with a solid wenge fascia on the rip miter. This is real handy to know and most woods are not available in 16/4 especially exotics like wenge. This solution is invisible and pretty easy to do. Trim the fascias on a jointer with the fence at 45 degrees...I haven't seen this one in books and I have found it a valuable trick for many years...The oak coffee table I made used similar details...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=34542&highlight=coffee+table

Congratulations Mr. Singer,
I just read this thread over again. I have not seen it in quite a while.
But it shined for me in a way I will not forget. Just top shelf stuff.

Sorry to notice that whilst I have referred to this method elsewhere on the Creek,
I had never actually responded here. Inspiring work in nasty wood.
Definitely worth bumping for the benefit of new viewers.(more than 7 years later)

Nifty approach to jumbo 16/4" legs in gorgeous wood not readily available so darn thick.
This is probably my all-time favourite Creek posted photo. worth 1000 words to be sure!
I took the liberty of sprucing it up a bit for a re-post, hope you do not mind.

We build furniture and furniture needs legs.
You gave us big value with this sharing.279648
Thanks so much showing us the way,
Walt

ps keep raising the bar to impress us mere woodworking mortals!
:)

[Leigh Betsch]

I don't see mark post much any longer. His posts are among the best. I wish he'd post more again. I'm mostly a lurker and understand that it takes a lot of time to post these projects so I understand if it gets to be too much extra work.