A plane dumb question

[Ken Garlock]

I have looked and read some, but I can not determine the rule for placing a plane iron bevel up or bevel down. I was starting to think it was bevel down, except when specified otherwise, as in a bevel up low angle jointer, or jack.
Then I saw somewhere that a low angle block plane uses a bevel up iron, but what about a regular angle block plane.

So what determines the up side of a plane iron?:confused: I need to know before the 'plane police' come knocking on my door.:eek:

[Andrew Homan]

Hi Ken,
If it's a "standard"-angle block plane, the blade is still "bevel up." Block planes are all, as far as I know, bevel-up, unless there is some obscure exception to the rule.

The "low angle" vs. "standard angle" refers to the angle of the bed the blade rests upon. At 12 or 12.5 degrees, the block plane is "low angle". At 20 degrees, the bed is "standard angle." Add the bevel angle to the bed angle to get the cutting angle. (The cutting angle of a bench plane, where the bevel is facing down, is simply the angle of the frog -- i.e. the bed angle.)

Give it a try and let us know how it goes. My guess -- if you are talking about a block plane -- is "bevel-up"!
-Andy

[Ken Garlock]

Thank you, Andrew. OK, bevel up on all block planes, sounds good to me.:) So the rule stands at block planes up, others down except when specified up. That is not too hard to remember. I had already figured out that the standard plane like a #4, #5, etc, were bevel down, but the bevel up was in question in my pointy head.

I fall in that group of 'instructions, who needs instructions?' Note to Ken, look at the plane iron before removing it. ;)

Also, welcome to the creek, Andrew.

[Andrew Homan]

Thanks for the welcome, Ken!
If it's any consolation I once took my scrub plane's blade out for honing. When I put it back in the plane, I dropped it in "bevel-up". Needless to say, what followed gave me quite a lesson!
-Andy

[Eddie Darby]

A very intelligent question!

As you get more and more experienced with planes you will realize that you match the "angle of attack" of the plane to the intended victim, the wood in this case.

Low angle block planes (all Block planes are based on the bevel-up blade ) with a low angle built into the plane body ( around 12 degrees usually ), and a low beveled plane iron/blade ( around 20 degrees usually ), for instance excell at cutting end-grain cuts, since the blade's "angle of attack" is very very low ( 12 + 20 = 32 degrees angle of attack), which leads to exploiting the victims weaknesses through the use of a more shearing cut. Skewing the plane, pushing it forward with the plane body at an angle to the direction of the thrust, sorta like a car skidding sideways in wet, slippery conditions, helps to make the cut even more lower/shearing.

This low angle cannot be achieved with a bench plane ( a Bench plane has a chip-breaker and so the chipbreaker is on top and the bevel is down below on the underside ). Most bench planes have a standard 45 degrees built into the plane body,and the bevel is in the down position so it does not contribute to the "angle of attack". The difference between the two "angles of attack" is that the bench plane is 45 - 32 = 13 degrees steeper.

Steeper "angles of attack" can be helpful when you are exploiting the weaknesses of curly grains or wild variable/changing grains, where a steeper "angle of attack" needs to be much steeper so as to approach the "angles of attack" that scraper planes and hand scrapers give you, which is close to/around the area of 90 degrees.

I hope you can see now WHY the bevel is up or down for the type of plane, which will help a lot in the long run.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Eddie. Thank you for an explanation that even I can understand.;) I hadn't thought through the reasoning as you explained it, and it makes good sense. It is nice to know the reason for something being the way it is.

Happy Saw Dust.

[Dennis Peacock]

Oh...for heavens sake..!!!!!! I'm very confused now. :confused: :confused:

I have all my plane irons bevel down so the chip breaker fits nicely on the blade. So....if what I'm reading is correct....then I have my blade in my blockplane in BACKWARDS!!!! I took it out, sharpened it, and put it back in like it was when I took it out. Standard Stanley blockplane...cheap but at least is nearly razor sharp.

Maybe I just need to take the blade out and use it for a veneer knife. :rolleyes:

[Steve Clardy]

Oh...for heavens sake..!!!!!! I'm very confused now. :confused: :confused:

I have all my plane irons bevel down so the chip breaker fits nicely on the blade. So....if what I'm reading is correct....then I have my blade in my blockplane in BACKWARDS!!!! I took it out, sharpened it, and put it back in like it was when I took it out. Standard Stanley blockplane...cheap but at least is nearly razor sharp.

Maybe I just need to take the blade out and use it for a veneer knife. :rolleyes:


Well now you done it Dennis:eek: :confused: :eek:

Steve. Running out checking my 5-6 block planes to see which way is up or down, or down or up:confused: or----------------:rolleyes: :)

[Frank Desaulniers]

Hi guys,
Another way of looking at it:
For metal planes: with a frog=bevel down; no frog=bevel up
For wooden planes: bevel down
For infills: low angle bed (12-25°) = bevel up; high angle bed (45-60°) = bevel down

[Ken Garlock]

Maybe we need a PIA(plane iron anonymous,) instead of an AA.:rolleyes:

We could start a meeting with: My name is Ken, and I have my bevel up.:eek:

And, then end the meeting with the Possum Lodge prayer: I am a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.:D

[Eddie Darby]

I have all my plane irons bevel down so the chip breaker fits nicely on the blade. So....if what I'm reading is correct....then I have my blade in my blockplane in BACKWARDS!!!! I took it out, sharpened it, and put it back in like it was when I took it out. Standard Stanley blockplane...cheap but at least is nearly razor sharp.


I think the confusion is with the term chipbreaker. This is an extra piece of iron that is adjustable, so it can be place very close to the cutting edge, usually 1/64" to 1/32", and it's roll is to help break the wood chip. The Standard Stanley blockplane does not have a chipbreaker, it has a Lever Cap, whose function is to lock the blade in place and to providea nice surface for you pal,m to rest on.

This webpage shows the parts of bench and block planes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(tool)

[Jim Hinze]

I think the confusion is with the term chipbreaker. This is an extra piece of iron that is adjustable, so it can be place very close to the cutting edge, usually 1/64" to 1/32", and it's roll is to help break the wood chip. The Standard Stanley blockplane does not have a chipbreaker, it has a Lever Cap, whose function is to lock the blade in place and to providea nice surface for you pal,m to rest on.

This webpage shows the parts of bench and block planes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(tool)

Wow... great Wikipedia entry... been reading the pages all morning. Thanks for the link!

[Hank Knight]

I may be wrong (standard discalimer), but my understanding is that the bevel on a bevel up plane breaks the chip and performs the same function as a chipbreaker in a bevel down plane. If your plane doesn't have a chipbreaker (not to be confused with a lever cap), it's a bevel up plane. If it has a separate chipbreaker, it's a bevel down plane. This doesn't hold true for scrub planes which have no chipbreaker and are used bevel down, and it assumes you haven't lost the chipbreaker for your bench plane.

My $.02

Hank

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hank is right with one small exception. Many of the wooden planes like Clark & Williams, Knight Toolworks, and over half of the antiques, use a singe piece iron and do not use a chipbreaker at all. This not true however for the transitional planes which are neither fish nor fowl.

[Eddie Darby]

This begs the question: Why even have a chipbreaker?

Found this nice webpage on chipbreaker/double irons vs. single irons.

http://www.planemaker.com/articles/dblirn.html

One of the things that impressed me about Lie-Nielsen Tools is the fact that they actually care about how a tool performs, and they look back in history to find that out. ie. They were the first to Re-introduce the correct tooth pattern saw for dovetails, which is an old design, and then everyone and their uncle jumped on the band wagon.

It would seem that the ignorance of plane makers is what lead to the success of re-placement blade companies such as Hock. Who in their right mind would buy a brand new car, and then replace the motor right away because the original motor didn't work. :eek: