Guitar Progress...and thanks to Vaughn McMillan (pics)

[scott spencer]

I don't normally post progress pics, but this one has been a slow go partly b/c I've been in way over my head, so I thought I'd take a minute to celebrate the latest progress. I started this last fall but didn't finish it before winter closed the shop for the season. Many thanks to Vaughn McMillan for his numerous notes about wiring and general strategy.

This is a solid body electric guitar I'm building for my kids...although my 16 year old is the only one who currently plays enough to count! The body is mahogany on the back and curly maple on the front. The pick guard is birsdeye maple, as is the neck...the fret board is rosewood. For those who speak the lingo, this is a hardtail and we'll be using two single Strat pickups and a double humbucker from an OLP "John Petrucci" signature, using a single tone and single volume knob with a 5-way switch.

Right now it's in the middle of the finishing stages, and the pics are just a preview to get a feel for how it'll look. There's still just a bit of finish shaping to remove the stain on the edges, some glueing, many clear coats, fine sanding, screwing, and wiring to go. I'm pleased considering as recently as yesterday I thought I'd ruined the BE maple top. :eek: Some Polyshades "old maple" salvaged what was intended to be a red front (the red was a minor disaster!). As it turns out, the old maple over the hideous red stain matches the color of the tuning knobs perfectly, and gives. :) I think the correction to the boo-boo will prove to be a very class looking stroke of luck.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Projects/000_0305.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Projects/000_0307.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Projects/000_0301.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Projects/000_0298.jpg

p.s the curly maple was donated by my good friend and fellow "Creeker", Tom Pritchard, the mahogany came from a $7 garage sale table, and the BE maple was salvaged from a renovation at work then sliced on Tom's MM16.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, great project!!! That's a nice instrument and an heirloom all rolled up in to one!

[Al Willits]

Very nice, be fun to try when its done....if I can remember how to play after all these years.:)
Hopefully the kids appreciate all the work that goes into something like this.

Only thing I might suggest is to maybe look into wiring some of the pick ups in a series/ parallel set up, that will really open up the sounds it'll make.

Keep them pictures coming...:)

Al

[Corey Hallagan]

Scott that is fantastic! I can't wait to see it all finished. What a cool Dad! Party On Scott! :)

corey

[Doug Shepard]

Nice job so far. Keep up the good work. And put some strap locks on that thing. There's nothing worse than having your guitar crash to the floor - DAMHIKT.

[Vaughn McMillan]

That thing is looking sweet, Scott. Glad to see you're making some progress.

- Vaughn (crossing his fingers hoping his foggy memory and ancient wiring experience pointed you in the right direction. ;) )

[Alan DuBoff]

Nice project, I've made messes of guitars and basses, and previously in a past life used to barter vintage guitars with the Japanese and often for boxes of guitar parts that I used to sell in the states.

It looks like you bought the neck, or did you make it as well?

Brian May and his Dad ain't got nothin' on you and your son! ;) If you didn't know, he used to play a guitar that him and his Dad built, and he played it on tour, in the studio, everywhere.

Once you get it together, set the intonation and you're off to the races...remember there is no such thing as perfect intonation, but it will get close enough for rock 'n roll...:D

[scott spencer]

Hi Alan - Thanks for the intro to Brian May...(I wouldn't have had a clue :o ).

The neck was purchased used from a local guitar shop (Stutzman's)....it's a "MightyMite" licensed by Fender. Maybe some day I'll build my own neck, but for the first time through I'm already sufficiently challenged! :rolleyes:

[Alan DuBoff]

Hi Alan - Thanks for the intro to Brian May...(I wouldn't have had a clue :o ).

The neck was purchased used from a local guitar shop (Stutzman's)....it's a "MightyMite" licensed by Fender. Maybe some day I'll build my own neck, but for the first time through I'm already sufficiently challenged! :rolleyes:Ah, I don't believe you're challenged, you just need to open your mind up to the way music works. The commonality between music and woodworking is math. <LOL!>

But it all breaks down to numbers, a string vibrates 440 times a second to produce the A note, or as folks refer to it as A-440. Mathmatically if you shorten that string to exactly half the length, you will have the same tone, but one octave higher (open string vs. 12th fret on the guitar). Split the string again and you'll be another octave higher. Eventually you run out of frets, or position in the case of the violin.

These electric guitars are really quite basic, and once you get the neck bolted in, you can set the bridge to aprox twice the length of the 12th fret. To intonate the guitar is dialing in the bridge to make it as close to twice the length, but because of the various strings and overtones, they will not all adjust the same. This of this as you would to calibrate your table saw, for instance. Same difference for a guitar player. Actually you average both the open strong, the 12th fret, and the harmonics to come up with the best overall average for all notes. Each string is different due to size.

Violins are marked with notches on the scrolls, and that is to align the bridge in the right spot. In the old days, one needed a Conn or Pedersen strobe to intonate your guitar (or similar), so most would have a shop do it as they didn't have the strobes. I've had both over the years. Nowdays any electronic tuner will allow you to do that.

If the strings don't lie flat after you put the neck on, you can shim the neck between the body. The neck has a truss rod which will allow you to dial it in pretty good, and typically only older necks that have bowed would need to be shim'd, or in the worst case the frets pulled and the fingerboard planed or replaced, etc...the convenience of the Fender style guitars (bolt on neck) as yours is that you can get a new neck and replace a bad one. If a Les Paul gets a bowed neck, there's sometimes not much you can do unless you love the guitar, and then you can dump some $$$s into having someone fix it for you.

PS EDIT: BTW, that pick guard kicks tushy! That's way nicer than that plastic crap that comes on most of them.

PPS EDIT: How's the weight? That will be critical. Many players prefer a lighter guitar (fender crowd), opposed to the heavier one (gibson through body). With sunburst Les Pauls from the 50s, you literally pay for the amount of flame on the top. The higher flamed tops fetch the most outrageous prices. That's why your pickguard is so kewl...I think someone could make a nice chunk of change stamping out pickguards out of nice wood like you've done. I don't know if the math would work out to a nice enough price, but it seems you could about 6 veneers out of 1 bf, if you sold them for $25, I think a lot of folks would buy them over the web. They would have to be exotic hardwoods of course.

[scott spencer]

Wow....that's alot of info Alan! Thanks....much to think about. You may have just invited a question or two! :D

The guitar seems fairly heavy so far, but it is what it is. I don't play so I have no way of knowing if it's a hindrance other to than from my son's feedback. Weight training is possible if it's a problem! :D

Thanks again...that's really useful (and impressive) info!

[Alan DuBoff]

Wow....that's alot of info Alan! Thanks....much to think about. You may have just invited a question or two! :DFeel free to ask away, I'm sure the stuff I can't answer someone else will.

The guitar seems fairly heavy so far, but it is what it is. I don't play so I have no way of knowing if it's a hindrance other to than from my son's feedback. Weight training is possible if it's a problem! :D There are ways to lighten it up, one is to make the entire body thinner, providing you have enough to work with and get the cavities deep enough for the electronics. Have you routed out the pickups and/or cavities and channels for wires?

You could take some off on the bandsaw to make it lighter.

Here's a little Fender history for 'ya...the electric guitar as we know it was first created in 1949 by Leo Fender, it was a Broadcaster. Because Gretch had a guitar named the Broadcaster also, and that it pre-dated Leo's guitar, he changed the name to Telecaster. But the original was a Broadcaster.

The 50s was the first era of electric guitars, and most were made of alder, it was pretty light. But Fender used ash for the see-through finish, such as the see-through blonde. Those guitars were often heavy, so a lot of people that wanted them to play didn't like those and wanted light guitars. Some of the ash bodies were light also, and swamp ash is light.

Also, Fender used color paint from the auto industry, so all of the colors matched the auto paint at the time, candy apple red, sea foam green, coral, white, black, etc...but sunburst was a kind of standard. Painted bodies didn't need nice wood, and the alder was sometimes pieced together, or seamed in odd places, but that couldn't be seen as the paint covered it up.

Gibson was completely different and often heavy, beautiful pieces of wood for the sunburst, and similar lesser pieces for the painted bodies. Some guitars during the 60s were made of plastic, and they were kinda cool in their own right, some shaped like the united states (Nationals and Airlines). I once had a plastic Goto bass that was pretty cool, neck and body...sold it to one of the gals in the Bangles, a band that was popular in the 80s. The bass was really light and nice to play on stage. Not for everyone though. Some folks just had to have a Fender bass.;-)

A heavy guitar is not always bad, some folks prefer them, and Les Pauls are heavy, solid pieces of wood. It's all preference.

Thanks again...that's really useful (and impressive) info!Ah, take it with a grain of large salt, I know little...just ask some of the more knowedgable woodwrokers around here and they'll most likely tell you so.

[Vaughn McMillan]

To expand on one of Alan's points, some guitarists prefer heavier guitars, with the opinion that heavier guitars have better sustain characteristics. (Many guitarists consider "sustain" to be desirable.) I've seen evidence there's truth to that, but I've seen lighter weight guitars that had sustain out the wazoo. (That's a technical guitar term, BTW. :) ) I've got a lightweight B.C. Rich with the neck all the way through the body, and it's very "sustainy". Another theory regarding sustain has to do with neck attachment, with the opinion that bolt-on necks offer less sustain than those that are glued on (or continuous through the body). In my experience, I've seen some evidence of this also being true, but I've got a bolt-on neck Ibanez with great sustain.

I think the elusive "sustain beast" that many guitarists are after is a broad combination of mass, continuity of vibration throughout the entire string footprint (from the headstock to the bridge, through the strings and the neck), and the type and shape of the materials. I'm sure it also has something to do with desirable resonant frequencies, but I couldn't tell you which ones are the good ones, or how to ensure your guitar hits them.

All that said, your guitar has a bolt on neck (sounds like a good one, too), so if it were mine, I'd opt to leave the body as heavy and solid as possible, in hopes of getting as much sustain as possible. Keep in mind that I would rather play a ligher weight guitar if I were still playing on stage every night, but nowadays for my purposes (sitting down playing at home), heavy guitars are not a problem. If your son's playing it on stage (or playing standing up while jamming with his pals) a heavier guitar will maybe keep him from practicing his Pete Townshend flying scissor kick jumps off the drum riser. (DAMHIKT ;) )

I'd also do my best to have as much contact as possible between the body and the neck at the joint where they are connected to each other. Any gaps will potentially affect the sound.

[Alan DuBoff]

Vaughn,

Yeah, I have heard many a musician talk about the heavy bodies having better sustain, and that is true in some cases as you point out. I think it all gets down to preference though. You gotta play what you like, same with woodworking.

If you change pickups in a guitar, it will often sound very different. Same wood, same strings, but pickups will change the tone completely. Some pickups are good and others are not. I have only one electric bass left, neck and parts are from a '59 P-Bass, but the body is a beat to heck '63 that has about half of the original sunburst finish on it. The neck has no finish on it. The pickups sound great, it's a player's bass. BTW, the body is alder if that matters. I think it's the pickups that make it sound the way it does, but it's the wood that makes it feel the way it does.

I have watched a period where musicians would buy old danelectro and sears guitars (one and the same) and rape them for the pickups. However, all lipstick pickups were not equal, and certain ones sounded better. Stevie Ray Vaughn played them in his famous SRV strat. David Lindley used to buy tons of those guitars and find the good pickups, sell the rest. The point is that this really has more effect on the sound and sustain than anything else. I'm not saying that wood doesn't have some effect, but it's not like an old acoustic martin, the physics are quite a bit different when you add amplification. Also, the amp itself has a lot of effect on the sound as well.

But certainly the wood does have some effect. The very reason folks don't know why the old strad violins are so good. More than 300 years later and they still can't reproduce them at the same quality. But this is an acoustic instrument, so it's a bit different. Wood does have some effect on an electric guitar though, no question.

Music is a lot like woodworking. It's not the instruments as much as it is the players.;)

Scott's guitar looks wonderful, and it's made by him and/or his son. Wether it's heavy or not if certainly not a problem. It's the kids that start swapping their pickups, changing strings, and trying different things that learn to play the best, IMO.

The next thing you know, Scott's son will be talking to the neighbor's brother-in-law, who knows a person up the street from where he lives, who has a cousin with a girlfriend who's uncle owns a recording studio that will give them studio time at half price to "cut an alblum"...never heard a guitar player tell me a story like that...:rolleyes:

[Vaughn McMillan]

The next thing you know, Scott's son will be talking to the neighbor's brother-in-law, who knows a person up the street from where he lives, who has a cousin with a girlfriend who's uncle owns a recording studio that will give them studio time at half price to "cut an alblum"...
Wow, you know him too? He's my uncle's girlfriend's cousin. He used to work for Adam Ant's roadie's band. :p

I agree with you Alan on the pickup thing. They're definitely another piece in the whole puzzle.



Scott's guitar looks wonderful, and it's made by him and/or his son. Wether it's heavy or not if certainly not a problem. It's the kids that start swapping their pickups, changing strings, and trying different things that learn to play the best, IMO.

Absolutely right on all counts.

[Doug Shepard]

Leaving the sustain properties aside, on the aspect of weight, IMHO weight isn't so much the issue as much as how well it's balanced. A balanced heavier guitar will be easier (more comfortable) to play than an unbalanced lighter guitar. The bodies made of lighter wood can sometimes be a real pain if the neck is always wanting to fall downwards due it's own weight. A couple of hours of constantly hitching the neck upwards will make your neck muscles pretty sore. The reverse case isn't quite as much of a problem as there's a natural tendency to want the neck tilted up a bit anyway. The worst guitar I ever played belonged to a friend who owned a Gibson Les Paul Custom (the 3 pickup job). The whole thing was extremely heavy but oddly seemed more neck-heavy than body-heavy. It sounded great but really called for some physical therapy after playing it for any length of time.
Shaping the back for a body contour also has a lot to do with how comfortable it is to "wear" a guitar for long periods.
Just my $0.02.

[scott spencer]

You guys amaze with your knowledge and experiences. I remember the Bangles BTW....Manic Monday?....

Your insights on the subtleties of a guitar remind me of my speaker building days of the late 80's and early 90s. I was amazed at how sensitive a good system could be and how much of a difference the most obscure factor could make. Cabinet size, shape, construction/ driver selection, driving spacing/ and of course the infinite crossover combinations and compoenents all make big audible differences. Apparently guitars have some parallels to those aspects. Let's hope this doesn't unleash the sleeping monster in me! :eek: :rolleyes:

My kids as a group (6 of 'em) are typically pretty rough on stuff. This particular 16 year old tends to have the patience to take better care of things than the others, and I suspect he'll be playing this guitar mainly in his bedroom sitting down, so I doubt the weight will be a big problem. He can take his China Strat out of the house to play with his buddie's band! Now if we can only keep the 19 year old away from it...he'd be the one smash on stage in the "heat of the moment"! :mad:

All these insights are much appreciated...I'm sure I"ll have more questions as I start tuning the thing. Thanks much!

[Al Willits]

Gibsons 325 and 335/345 were light compared to a Les Paul and those who liked blues/fusion used them quite a bit, while your on pick ups, don't forget different wirings will make a ton of difference, used to play a 325 Gibson with one dimarzio (sp?) and one dual sound, wired in both series and paralell, also a Gretch solid body with stock pick ups done pretty much the same way, wiring will really wake up a basic axe.
Maybe try it, ya can always wire it "stock" again.. :)

You guys talking about older axes are sure bringing back memories..:)


Al who remembers dragging a Vox Super Beatle up three flights of stairs to play a wedding once....then went back to his twin reverb....:D

[Vaughn McMillan]

I dunno Al...my ES-335 sure felt almost as heavy as my Les Paul. A bit lighter, but deceptively heavy. That solid block of maple inside had some heft. (Alas, both were stolen from me years ago.)

The mentioning of the wiring possibilities brings us back full circle...that's what started me talking to Scott about this guitar months ago. ;)

[john whittaker]

Hi Scott,
Your guitar is looking real good....cool project with a connection to your son. And all you guys talking about guitars is making me hungry.

In researching guitar building I found many web sites that were helpful. I slant more towards acoustic but this site has tons of links with mostly lectric stuff....check out projectguitarsdotcom and you will find many helpful sites.

Thanks for posting the progress pics. Now get out there and get it finished. And one last bit of advice....Seek other opinions.....If you just listen to an old hippie like Vaughn no tellin what yer geter will sound like:D

[Al Willits]

Not sure, but I think the 325 might have been a bit lighter than the 335, but both seemed to be well balanced, to me anyway.
Worse axe I ever owned for playing had to be the Vox Mark 6 I had for a bit, that teardrop shape made it impossible to sit and play, kept sliding off your lap, didn't think to much of the sound either.
Most favorite stock guitar I liked was probably the 175D, that was a sweet axe imho.

Learning to play a couple of cords on the guitar is something I've never regretted, the hours, heck years I spent learning were well worth it.
The excitement of first time we played a for real gig, plus the years of enjoyment after that, are something I'll remember to the day I die, I only hope your kids appreciate what your doing and get a chance to really enjoy music

Congrats on a job well done, both the guitar and the involvement with your kids.

Al

[Jim Becker]

In the "heavy" department is my Kramer 6-string solid-body with the aluminum horseshoe neck...major heavy! Interestingly enough, however...I traded a much, much heavier Fender Rhodes stage piano for it. ;) I could barely lift that puppy to move it around the apartment I lived in at the time!

[Alan DuBoff]

Scott, they did have a hit called Manic Monday, and it seems like they had another called Walk Like an Egyptian.

On the weight, I've owned and sold hundreds of guitars, and more like thousands. I used to sell 100-120 guitars at a time to Japan. I probably sold 2000 vintage guitars to Japan alone when I lived there during the 80s. What I can say is this...some guitars are light, some are heavy. It's just like the wood we work in our projects, the same species varies that much.

Some of the 335s are heavy, some are light. Same with strats, some are light, some are heavy, even the same species like alder. Same with the ash bodies, some are light and some are heavy. Most all Les Pauls are heavy though...:p

Reading about Al replacing his pickups reminds me of a great friend, unfortunately now a late friend...Ted Greene, he used to play 335s and the likes when he came out with a famous book titled "Chord Chemistry". Later took a liking to 50s telecasters. I hope he died with a guitar in his hands, he literally would play most waking moments that he wasn't teaching. What a player.

Vaughn is spot on, if you're not playing on stage, weight is less important. But get up on stage for a nights work and you'll appreciate a light guitar. OTOH, many claim the sustain as Vaughn pointed out. I have a client in German with a large guitar store in Hamberg. He created a stretch strap that would allow a heavy guitar (i.e., read as Les Paul) to kinda bounce and absorb the shock. The bottom line is that even folks that claim a heavy guitar has more sustain don't even like having a heavy guitar! :D

Some of the heaviest guitars I've owned were bought from a bass player, Glenn Kornick (sp?) who had played in Jethro Tull. The guitars were from England, and I think I bought a guitar and a bass from Glenn. They were Bison guitars, big horns on the cutouts, I think to resemble a bison or something...really heavy guitars...I think they were made in the 60s.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread though, a lot has to do with dialing in the guitar, getting it tuned up, using the pickups that sound good, etc...if the guitar is made out of beautiful wood, all that much better, IMO. (light or heavy) Take a lesson from Brian May of Queen. He made a guitar with his father and made it sound good. If that ain't paying your Dad some gratitude, I don't know what is...:)

[Greg Peterson]

Great work Scott. Looking good!

Where is the jack going to go?

I'm building a electric slide guitar right now. The body shape is similar to a Les Paul, only without the cut away. It's a neck through body setup made out of alder. I'm using a graphic bar to stabilize the short neck and will be installing a rosewood fretboard with medium sized frets. The frets are simply position markers.

Since I used alder, I'm thinking about using a curly or tiger stripped maple veneer to dress it up a little with binding to conceal the veneer.

What kind of stain/finish did you use on this guitar you're building? It is pretty much the type of finish I want to use.

Keep up the great work.

[George Franklis]

Cool guitar, Scott. I keep telling myself I'll make one someday, but then don't.

[scott spencer]

The output jack is going to go on the bottom...probably a couple of inches from the neck strap peg.

The finish started out to be red, but was looking pretty lousy Saturday morning. I sanded it back a bit and used to aged maple poly shades to get the result in the pics. I've since added a few coats of Waterlox Original high gloss and it's really added alot of depth to both the maple and the mahogany.

[Alan DuBoff]

Scott,

Can you post your wiring question here? I think Vaughn or Al might be able to help as they may have a guitar to compare to.

[scott spencer]

Scott,

Can you post your wiring question here? I think Vaughn or Al might be able to help as they may have a guitar to compare to.

Good idea...never know what info might come forth: (...thanks)

The hot lead on the output jack has a shielding wire that's not indicated in my wiring diagram and I'm wondering what the best thing to do with it is. It's been suggested to ground one end of it, which is the direction I'm currently leaning towards.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Slide2.jpg

[Greg Peterson]

Scott, what pickup are you putting in?

I see you are bypassing the tone pot (which, IMO, is just fine. I never use 'em anyway)

I just ground the shielding wire.

Guitar Nuts (http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.php)
(http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/index.php)

[Russ Massery]

Scott, My son and I put a kit strat together last winter. After he took all my other equipment.:( (my prized 4001 Rickenbacker stays with me for now). Here's a link to a website I found helpful. http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-4000.html (http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-4000.html)
I owned several guitars over the years. never thought much of building one.Till he talked me into this kit. Good luck with yours.

[scott spencer]

Greg - We're not really bypassing the tone pot...just left off any extraneous wiring from that pic to single out the wire I had a question on. The pickups will be an S/S/HH setup using two singles from a Strat, and a humbucker from an OLP John Petrucci.

Thanks Russ...I'll check out Stewmac.