chain saw question

[Jim Hill]

I've got several smaller trees to cut down and am looking at a new gas chain saw. I have used an electric with 14 inch bar in the past; finally the smoke escaped from the motor. From my research, it appears that Huskies and Stihls are the most preferred. I talked to a Stihl dealer today and he suggested model MS250. I can buy the saw with either a 16 inch or 18 inch bar ($10 more). The 16 will be plenty big for what I'm doing now. No, I don't have any visions of cutting down trees for a living. I think the 16 will be easier to manage, but I'm also wondering if down the road I'll regret not getting the 18. Can anyone with experience give me any thoughts here? Also, the dealer said that I would most likely be more satisfied if I bought the upgraded model that has the Easystart system, and the Quickchain adjuster ($40 more). Thanks, Jim

[Marion Rood]

I have 16" bar, easy start and fastchain adjuster. Good saw. I don't miss longer bar. Easy start is nice. My saw is two years old now and still going strong.

[Steve Clardy]

For a $10.00 up charge, I would go with the 18" bar. You won't notice a weight difference.
I run Jonsered saws.
22 and 24" bars. Very handy.
Yes, heavier. More teeth to sharpen.
But less bending over.

[Robert Mickley]

Echo, stihl, huskie. And persoanly I'm not impressed with the huskies.
Cousin has one, keeps it in his heated basement,mine is in an unheated storage building. We go to the woods, he's still pulling the rope and I'm on the second cut before he gets his huskie to stay running. I'll keep keep my echos.

As for bars, my 500 has a 16, my 750 has a 24 and the .075 has a 32
The 500 gets used the most, the .075 gets used the least.

[Jason Roehl]

But less bending over.

I'm 6'0", and a 20" bar will eventually cause some back discomfort (it takes several hours), but not near as much as a 16" or 18" bar will--those don't take very long at all. I wouldn't hesitate to even use a 24" (don't have one, but I have an as-yet-untested 32" bar), as weight becomes less of a factor when you can hold it in a MUCH more comfortable position.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yes'sir-ree........I've researched this and read up on chainsaws for a long time before I made the jump. I have gone through 1 homelite, 2 Poulan's, and a hatchet ;) and I settled on a Stihl and I'm more than extremely happy with my choice.

Go with the 18" bar. The only immediately noticed difference will be a few more teeth to sharpen. The MS250 is a good saw. Get it with the quick chain adjuster and East-2 Start. It's the MS 250 C-BE is the exact model number as per the Stihl catalog. Also, make sure you use a Bar/Chain oil that has the anti-sling additive in it. Stihl markets their brand and works much better than the BB store brand of Bar/Chain oil (looks and feels a lot like 30 weight motor oil to me). The Bar/Chain oil IS the life of the Bar & Chain. I learned this lesson the hard way by costing me more money in replacement bars and chains. :o

I have never met a person yet that has opted for a Stihl saw and regretted their decision. :)

Happy MS 361 owner here. :D

[Randy Meijer]

Jim: This question comes up all of the time and the responses are always the same. Buy the "Ferrari".....you will be able to get the kids to school much faster!! There is no doubt that the Stihl MS250 is a wonderful saw; but at over $400 it may be more saw than you really need. If you have a lot in town and intend to cut down 3 or 4 6" trees and then never use the thing again except for light prunning, a 14" Poulan or McCulloch will suit you just fine for about $125. On the other hand, if you have a few acres in the country and tree cutting of larger(12"+) trees is going to be an ongoing activity, definitely go for the Stihl or a comparable saw. I have had a 14" McCulloch for about 5 years now and it is still going strong and has met all of my needs except once. Had a 30" red oak in my front yard that needed to come down and the Little Mac was not up to the job so I borrowed a work saw from my neighbor ......Stihl 250(16").....predecessor to the MS250. The difference was night and day; but at 3x the price one would have expected nothing less.

Take a good hard look at exactly how much use you will be giving the saw and decide accordingly. doesn't do much good to have a Ferrari parked in the garage if you never use it or only drive it to the grocery store??

As to the bar length, unless you are running a saw for more that 4 hours 5 days a week, I don't think it really makes a big deal of difference for most folks. If you have big trees buy a lonl bar, if you have small trees, buy a short bar.

[Jon Eckels]

Echo fan here, happy with the quality, and they're one of the easiest ones to get parts for if you need them.

[Jim Becker]

I upgraded to an 18" bar when I bought my .029 Farm Boss and honestly, there are times when I wish it was a 20"-er. I'd go for the extra two inches, especially since the price differential is so little.

Oh, and I did buy a less expensive saw when I moved to this property. It lasted for two trees and was a bugger to start. Had I invested in the better tool the first time around, my total outlay would have been much, much less.

[Larry Reimer]

If all you need to cut is some small trees on a rare basis, why not go back with the electric chain saw? I've had a Milwaukee electric with 16" bar for a lot of years already and would recommend it for whatever you're doing where an extension cord will reach.

[John W. Willis]

I have a Poulan "wild thing" with an 18" bar and I have used the hound out of it. I originally bought it to cut up a downed tree from a storm. It was a huge pine. It started easily, ran great, that was 6 years ago and it still runs just as good as new. I originally bought it because of price thinking that it would be a one use deal. I normally used my Brother's stihl but I couldn't get hold of him so I thought I need one for my use.

I've used both and the poulan gets my nod.

[Jay Knepper]

I have the Stihl that you're looking at, and it's a great saw. I have 6 acres with quite a few trees, and the 16" bar has worked fine for me, but I'm sure the 18" model would be fine as well. With the longer bar there's the extra two inches to worry about keeping away from dirt, barbed wire, rocks, and personal parts. My inlaws have much larger saws and they really like the power:weight ratio of the Stihl 250.

I don't have the ez adjust or the ez start features, and I don't regret it. Stihls start well if you remember that to take the choke off the first sign of a cough when firing it up.

[Dick Brown]

Worked in the big timber country of the NW- Go Husky or Stihl. Have a small place in the edge of town- I still run a Stihl w/ 18" bar and Echo w/ 14" bar. Both work fine but Echo is cheaper to buy and you get what you pay for. Use just once in a while, go Echo or some other BB brand- Get serious, go Stihl or Husky. Number of teeth on a chain doesn't matter as each tooth cuts a certain amount so if you don't hit a rock or "Ground" it, you will get a proportionate amount of cutting to the bar length before sharpening. The one thing you REALY need to do is never store your saw for any length of time with fuel in the tank or you will be taking it to the shop for a clean out. There are fuel conditioners out there that will help but the best is to run them dry before storing.
Dick

[Robert Mickley]

Use just once in a while, go Echo or some other BB brand- Get serious, go Stihl or Husky.
Dick

One thing about echo, There isn't a Big Box line. Unlike any of the others. Echo makes one line and doesn't realy on their name to sell their the BB lines.

I'll put echo up against stihl or husky any day of the week.
My brother has a whole collection of echos that have cut all of his firewood for the last 13 or 14 years. He has a750evl that he bought new 8 or 9 years ago and its never had anything go wrong with it and it gets some serious abuse. I don't get my 750EVL out very often but when I do its running on the third pul. Same as my 500VL. My stihl .075, 8 or 9 pulls even if has just sat overnight.

His CS440 gets used a lot too and its never been in the shop.either.
And my brother is not easy on things. IF you want to know if a tool will last give it to him. If he can't break it no one can

[Steve Clardy]

Did I hear an Echo in here:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

My jonsereds were bought new in 1983
Still running strong;)
I don't use them like to used too now.
I'll probably never have to replace them.:)

[Rob Littleton]

All we use at work (work for the city) is Stihl.

I do my best to get the easy adjust saws if I am cutting limbs all day. I arry about 5 or 6 chains and use them through the day. That easy adjust saves my butt when I have to change a blade. Dont have to walk back to the truck to get the wrench. When I carry the wrench on the off days, it hurts digging in my pocket all day.

I personally have the stihl farm boss and love it.

You wont regret the extra dollars for the easy start and easy adjust.

if you go for stihl, go for the upgrades.

my 2cents

["Gary Brewer"]

Around 1980 I bought a Stihl 031. It lasted a little over 20 years and survived a drop from about 13 feet off the ground ( about year 5 ). It landed upright and continued to run. I climed down from the ladder and was shocked that it was still running. I examined it for damage. Nothing was broken or out of wack. I couldn't believe it. I used it for many years after that. When I did replace it I decided to to cheap and got a McCullock cheapie. What a piece of junk. I replaced the McCullock after a few years with a new stihl m260 pro. What a wonderful saw. It is lighter that the beast ( stihl 031 ) and works great. I opted for the smaller 16 inch blade and haven't regretted it. I wanted something lighter but powerful and durable. Nothing can beat a stihl as yet. I have cut down trees with a diameter much bigger than 16 inches with it. You just cut both sides. But when delimbing a tree you'll appreciate the smaller blade and most likely have anarrower kerf chain . This is easier on the motor and much less fatigue for me. For me the convenience of a smaller bar has been better. You will have to decide for your individual situation. If I really needed a bigger bar I could always buy it and a chain. The smaller blade is less work for the motor to push and I believe makes for more power when cutting. A blade on the large side for a motor bogs it down easier.

[Tom Andersen]

Stihl or Husky. Jonsered is essentially identical to Husky with most parts directly replaceable. Much more info at http://www.arboristsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9.

[Martin Lutz]

I run two Stihl saws; an 025 with and 18" bar, and an 065 with a 24" and 36" bar. Love them both. I would definetely go with an 18" bar for the price. I upgraded my small saw from the 16 to the 18. I am not sure what the new systems are for starting and tensioning but the old way works just fine.

[Frank Fusco]

Stihl is dedicated to good customer service and demands the same from their dealers. As Jay pointed out, with the longer bar there is a safety/danger element. My 16" bars have always been adequate and easier to handle. BTW, I have had Stihl equipment that just would not run using anything other than Stihl oil. Dunnowhy.

[Jason Roehl]

Frank, I disagree--a longer bar has a much greater moment of inertia, so even if that dangerous upper quarter of the tip hits something, a longer bar tends not to rotate as far as a smaller one. In addition to that, the bar will be heavier in relation to the powerhead. Small saws with short bars tend to be "back-heavy" because the powerhead is much heavier than the bar. I find 20" saws are generally almost evenly balanced (depending on the saw), and longer bars than that can be to the point where if you pick up the saw by the top handle, the tip of the bar may stay on the ground.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

........................ I don't get my 750EVL out very often but when I do its running on the third pull. Same as my 500VL. My stihl .075, 8 or 9 pulls even if has just sat overnight.

Well Robert, my vintage 1976 Husky would start on the third pull every time I used it, once I rebuilt the carb and such, and that 85cc saw has no decomp valve, so that first pull was not fun :rolleyes: :D

Getting back to the OP question, I've said this before, go to the local dealer(s) see what they are like, how do they treat you, do they work on saws or send them out.........?

Find a good dealer, the saw, either Husky, Stihl or Echo is not so important, IMHO, buy a good saw from a good dealer, that is more important.

Also a good dealer may very well have a few good used saws around, this could really save you money and get you into a better range of saws than you could have afforded at the new price.

Learn to sharpen your chain, wear chaps, boots, gloves, hearing and eye protection.

Good luck, we expect pics when you make a choice :D

Cheers!

[Robert Mickley]

Well Robert, my vintage 1976 Husky would start on the third pull every time I used it, once I rebuilt the carb and such, and that 85cc saw has no decomp valve, so that first pull was not fun :rolleyes: :D

Cheers!

I'll bet it wasn't!!! I've made the mistake of not pushing the comp release on the .075. I can tell without a doubt it smarts when it jerks the handle back through your fingers :D

[Jim Hill]

Thanks for all the replies. I expect to make a decision by the end of the week.

Jim

[Al Killian]

I second jonsereds, they run strong and they last for a really long time. As far as bar size goes, go and pick up a few different ones and hold them for a few minutes and see which oneworks out for you. If it says it runs a 18" bar doesnt mean you cant run a smaller bar.It is nice to have enough power when needed to use the larges chain. When you do find the right one pick up a few extra chains just in case.

[Ian Abraham]

I'll bet it wasn't!!! I've made the mistake of not pushing the comp release on the .075. I can tell without a doubt it smarts when it jerks the handle back through your fingers :D

Thats a mistake you only make once with an 090 (135cc) :D

To Jim

Stihl make good saws, expensive, but good. Sounds like your dealer has given you good advice. Personally I wouldn't bother with the easystart / auto chain tensions stuff, but it will make life easier for an occasional user. Dont worry too much about the bar size, that 16" bar is prefectly capable of taking down a 30" tree. Technically you could take down a 48" tree with it, but thats not in the beginners manual ;)

Like the others have said, there are other brands that are worth considering too, but that depends on what your local dealer support is like. I have a couple of Stihls, and like them, but my last purchase was a Dolmar, another good German brand. Husky, Jonsered, Echo, Shindaiwa, Oleo-Mac all make some good machines.

Make sure you get the safety gear too, and a sharpening kit. Doesn't matter how good the saw is, if the chain is blunt it's going to cut like a dog. Get your dealer to give you the 5min course in chain sharpening, sharpen as soon as the cutting slows up. That way it's 2 swipes on each cutter and it's back to 100% again.

Cheers

Ian

[Al Weber]

I'd go with an 18" bar on any of the top three brands. I use a Farmboss with an 18" bar to maintain 90+ acres of woodland in NH and while I have often wanted a longer bar, I've never wanted a smaller one. I alos have a small Stihl with a 14" bar that is used only for brush cutting and limbing downed logs. I wouldn't get suckered into the cheaper brands. I've did that once and had to replace it after one year of light work. Which ever quality unit you buy, it will be cheaper in the long term than the bargain brand.

[Frank Fusco]

Frank, I disagree--a longer bar has a much greater moment of inertia, so even if that dangerous upper quarter of the tip hits something, a longer bar tends not to rotate as far as a smaller one. In addition to that, the bar will be heavier in relation to the powerhead. Small saws with short bars tend to be "back-heavy" because the powerhead is much heavier than the bar. I find 20" saws are generally almost evenly balanced (depending on the saw), and longer bars than that can be to the point where if you pick up the saw by the top handle, the tip of the bar may stay on the ground.

That's why we are all issued an unlimited number of opinions. :rolleyes: Disagreement permited. Personally, unless really big cutting is expected, I think the 18 incher is just right. :p

[Jason Roehl]

I only disagreed based on personal experience and coming up with a mechanical physics concept to justify it. :D I've actually had a few chainsaw incidents: several pushbacks (one smarted a bit when the handle hit next to the groin), chains have come off (been hit in the pants leg a couple times, no wounds), and a few kickbacks, but they have never engaged the chain brake nor flipped the tip of the bar up more than maybe 6" or so. Oh, and I put a small notch in an aluminum ladder once. Praise God, I'm fully intact after many hours behind a chainsaw, but I've definitely learned a lot by trial and error.

[Todd Woodward]

Jim, I've used that saw with a 16 inch and an 18 inch bar and believe it or not, it can't pull 18 inches buried in the wood. It'll pull a 16 with a really really sharp chain, but it just doesn't have the muscle. That's fine as long as you don't intend to put all the bar into the wood. It is a homeowners model of stihl, so don't expext to keep up with it's cousin the 240 or 260, they are pro grade machines and they perform like it as well.

[Boyd Gathwright]

.... I tend to agree with Jason's experiences. One day I was running a heavier saw, HUSKY (18 to 20” bar) and switched to a much lighter saw for trim work, McCullough (about 14 to 16” bar). If I hadn't had the death grip on the smaller saw that I normally have on the larger saw the kickback I experienced would have gotten me. By-the-way, I prefer the HUSQVARNA over the STIHL – less moving parts.


;)


Frank, I disagree--a longer bar has a much greater moment of inertia, so even if that dangerous upper quarter of the tip hits something, a longer bar tends not to rotate as far as a smaller one. In addition to that, the bar will be heavier in relation to the powerhead. Small saws with short bars tend to be "back-heavy" because the powerhead is much heavier than the bar. I find 20" saws are generally almost evenly balanced (depending on the saw), and longer bars than that can be to the point where if you pick up the saw by the top handle, the tip of the bar may stay on the ground.