FINE HOMEBUILDING: Can a CS replace TS?

[Phil Winn]

In the current Oct/November 2006 FINE HOMEBUILDING Magazine,
"Can a Circular-Saw Edge Guide Replace Your Tablesaw? Best Value goes to the Red-Line Cutting Guide (Hartville Tool); Best Overall goes to Festool, with EZ Smart a close runner-up. Festool is a man set out to play among the boys; too bad it's priced accordingly. Ez Smart is well-conceived; as with the Festool, someone set down all the questions and tried (quite successfully) to answer them." page 96.
"Choosing between Festool and EZ Smart is like choosing between Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid..." "I think EZ Smart's antisplinting provision is the best of the lot." page 94.

I am not trying to start any battles, I just thought it was nice that they liked both.
Phil
PS: I do not own either...

[Don Baer]

OK Phil,
You may not have inteded to start it but I'll be willing to be it turn into one. I don't own either so I'll sit on the side lines.

[Steve Clardy]

Ok. I'm in.
I have Dino's system;) :)

[Gary Herrmann]

I've got an EZ Smart. I like it a lot. I'll probably buy more stuff from Dino. If I had money to burn, I'd pick up that new Festool CS with the big vac. But that would run me about a grand.

I'm pretty happy with what I have. I just need to figure out a way to make dust collection work with my Milwaukee.

[Vaughn McMillan]

I agree with Phil. I think it's great that both were equally praised. I have neither, but if I were to buy a system, it'd likely be the least expensive of the two. They seem to have comparable capabilities in most regards.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have the Festool TS55 and rails, I love it, but the main reason I bought it was for the saw, I needed a new CS and the dust control issue for me was paramount. Nothing agains the EZ system.

Will it replace a TS, maybe, depends on what you are doing.

I think with my SCMS and the Festool, it has almost replaced my TS, the TS is not for sale......... yet :D

Cheers!

[Mike Cutler]

I don't think that any of them can "replace" the tablesaw completely. They can all augment, and compliment a tablesaw.

I'm not picking any sides. I use a straight edge of MDF with an aluminium length of "L" channel fixed to one edge, and clamp it in place. I know, low tech.;)

[Tyler Howell]

"Man playing among the boys" OK I admit it. I won't grow up:o .
I'm a Festool tool snob. and glad of it.:D :D

[Bart Leetch]

Well Stu if I could remove my table-saw from its stand & easily put it somewhere on a shelf I wouldn't get rid of it anyway/either.:eek: :D However remembering that yours & my shop are the same size or close enough to the same size that it doesn't matter if I had to get rid of my table-saw because having room became the most important thing I think a set of guided rails with all the associated goodies for both CS & router as well as saber/jig-saw (to me hand held is a saber-saw & table model is a Jig-saw) I believe could replace my table-saw.

If he hasn't already I think one of the things Dino could & should address is dust collection by making a dust chute that can be installed on most saws by mounting with screws or some other means of attachment.

I use a commercial $20 guide system with masonite fastened to it so the ripped edge is my rip line indicator.

I have a friend that has both the EZ & FT systems so I have seen both. But I have not decided to spend the money on either system. I my never spend my money on either system. I think they are goth quite expensive considering that I use my tools mainly for hobby woodworking & have both a cabinet-saw & a Dewalt Panel-saw as well as guide rails for my CS these tools pretty much cover all my needs. Besides that if I really needed to I could probable borrow either system from my friend.:D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey Tyler............ Grow Up.... ;) :D

Bart, yeah, space is always a concern, you should see my Dungeon right now with those three wine shelves in the way, man, I need to get skinny to get around my shop right now! :D

The main thing that I use my TS for is the Dado stack, now I know a lot of that you can do on the router table, but, router bits, do not last very long, and they cannot be shimmed out for that "perfect" fit.

My TS, in the spot it is, I cannot handle full sheets of plywood (even the Japanese 3' x 6' sheets) with out moving a bunch of stuff around, so the Festool does a better job, for me, your mileage may vary.......;)

BTW, if you are interested in a TS free shop, John Lucas at woodshopdemos.com is doing just that..........

Woodshopdemos.com Festool pages (http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm)

Now if you go look at all the stuff they do with just the Festool system, and you take a look at all the stuff Dino does, well, maybe the TS, for an at home hobbyist is getting old hat...?

Time will tell.

Cheers!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'd say no.
However. while in college I had lent my TS to a friend who was biulding his house.

I wanted a big bed. I wanted a King size water bed with 12 drawers and a big massive headboard with leaded glass windows and a big mirror .
I had a Millers Falls Circular saw, a black and decker jig saw, a Craftsman router, a couple screwdrivers, a black and decker drill, a black and decker sander, a craftsman track sander, a couple of hand planes, two chisels, and a hammer, and a Volkswagen Hatchback.

I built the bed. It stayed with me for almost 10 years till all the evil gods ganged upagainst me and - - well anyway the bed was great. I didn't dovetail but the drawers worked flawlessly the thing was massive and it did have the headboard I envisioned.

So I guess you can get along without a TS if you have to.

I just don't have to.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

remember those polular mechanics articles about making your own TS with a sheet of plywood and a CS?

[Michael Adelong]

Hmmm... Me and my $19 two piece aluminum cutting guide with 10 year old hand me down C-Man circular saw are starting to feel pretty inadequate right about now.

Naaa... It works great, and has very minimal tearout when I install the good plywood blade. Dust collection? Excellent. It puts all of the sawdust in a nice 4 foot radius patch on the floor, where it is nice and easy to pick up with some flex hose on the ole HF DC. Replace my TS? No way. Can't set my beer on the CS while I'm cleaning up. Maybe a bigger base plate? :rolleyes:

Michael

[Frank Pellow]

A Guided Tool System with a Circular Saw and a Router can replace a table saw. I do that with my Festool system for a couple of months each summer at Pellow's Camp as well as with various off-site projects. But, I am still glad to get back to my (General 650) table saw when I get back to my shop in Toronto

[Jon Eckels]

A Guided Tool System with a Circular Saw and a Router can replace a table saw.

I'm almost in agreement, but let me take it one step further. A Guided Tool System with a Circular Saw and a Router Table can replace a table saw.

Like I've said in previous threads, I've virtually replaced my Table saw with the EZ. I've really had no use for the Table saw since I bought the EZ. I won't get rid of it "just in case", but at this time i can see no forseeable reason that I would need it.

I install a lot Screen doors and custom wood window panels, and the EZ is indespensible for trimming them down at jobsites. The festool would have been an excellent choice for this task as well - but the EZ had more features that made it a better choice in my case. Heavier rails allow me to build better jigs in the shop for one... and the much lower price is another.

In the end whether a user chooses a festool or an EZ, it's safer for their digits, and that's a good thing.

[Don Baer]

Can they, maybe, I got by for many,mnay ,many years but it is so much easier with a TS.

[Frank Pellow]

Can they, maybe, I got by for many,mnay ,many years but it is so much easier with a TS.
Some things are easier (and safer) with a a GTS (guided tool system), some things are easier with a table saw.

[Jim Becker]

I was just reading the mag this morning...and I'm glad to see the press acknowledging that the guided systems have a place in and out of the workshop. I happen to agree that a guided system will not totally replace the TS (both for some functions and just because a good TS can be enjoyable to use), they certainly make life easier for a lot of things, especially when dealing with sheet goods and you don't have a sliding saw. Mine will forever be a part of my shop arsenal! (Although I may upgrade to the larger saw because I work with thick slabs more than sheet goods)

[JayStPeter]

My "temporary" cutting table that I use for the Festool system hasn't been taken down in a couple years now. I'll eventually build a permanent version as it also acts as an assembly table.
That said, I use my Unisaw more than the Festool. I agree with Frank above. Even with a number of jigs, there are things that are just easier and significantly faster on the table saw. Yes, I have a guided router and large router table ... still not ready to lose the table saw. If I could rip a piece ready for glue off my bandsaw, then maybe I would consider life without the table saw ... but probably not.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The table saw and the guided CS systems each have their own areas of extremely useful capabilites! I have both and use which ever is the most practical and safe for the given project.

[Peter Pedisich]

"Saw" the article and agreed with much of it.

I've got some of both systems and love them both, they even play together well.

What they have allowed me to do is use my table saw much less thereby reducing my risk of tablesaw injury quite a bit.

But for quick ripping, the TS is great.

Pete

[Per Swenson]

Folks,

I don't think there is a yes or no answer to such a blanket

question/statement. You know I hold a GCSS in high regard.

It has replaced my jobsite tablesaw.

But guys I am not in this to putz around, no offense.

I'm in this for the shekel's , maximum production and time is

accomplished on a table saw. Period.

And, I think Ken is right on the money.

[Robert Mickley]

I'm poor, so I get buy with an 8 foot piece of hardboard with a piece of 1/2 inch ply screwed to it for an edge guide, :D

[Chris McDowell]

I do a fair amount of solid surface fabrication and find the Festool guide and saw to be extremely useful in certain situations. I joked to my dad the other day it is my table saw in the field. But in the shop the TS still reighs supreme.

[Dino Makropoulos]

[QUOTE=Phil Winn]In the current Oct/November 2006 FINE HOMEBUILDING Magazine,
"Can a Circular-Saw Edge Guide Replace Your Tablesaw?Phil

Phil.
25% of our customers are buying the ez smart instead of a table saw.
25% to get rid of it.
The rest to supplement all their tools, including the table saw.

I think the answer is: Yes. If you like to.

PS
Not trying to start anything either.



Dino
Eurekazone (ez smart)

[Robert Mickley]

Phil.
25% of our customers are buying the ez smart instead of a table saw.
25% to get rid of it.
The rest to supplement all their tools, including the table saw.

I think the answer is: Yes. If you like to.

PS
Not trying to start anything either.
Dino
Eurekazone (ez smart)

Personaly, I feel buying any guide system to elimante or instead of a table saw is a mistake. Don't take me wrong Dino. I watched your system at hartville tool once and yes it is slick. BUT. If you have 40 boards say 4 feet long 6 inches wide that need to be ripped to be ripped to 5 5/8. I'll bet you it can be done faster on the table saw.

Your's and festools systems have their place. IF you can't afford both a tablesaw and a straight line rip system, either the ez or the festool make a great starting place.

What do you do if you want to cut 3 inch thick stock and don't have a bandsaw? Can you cut Dados as deep as an 8 inch stacked dado can?
You can't shim a router bit for a tight dado. yeah you can make two passes at differant setting to get a tight dado but now your defeating the purpose of the guide systems which is speed and ease of setup.

It is a GREAT supplement tool, but thats is what it is. Theres is no one absolute way to cut things. Persoanly I think they supplement each other.

[Jon Eckels]

I'll bet you it can be done faster on the table saw.


Oh I'll bet you it can't. I wish I lived closer to Ohio, we could have a contest. oh what fun it would be. :)

I could very quickly and easily screw two boards to a piece of ply to have a fence, anchor the guide rail (any guide rail) to the top, and cut each piece in seconds. It would be faster than the TS, and more importantly much safer.

I understand that you're giving a simple "for instance". But even if I had to take more time to make a cut (or many cuts) with a guided rail system - unless it was prohibitively time consuming, I'd prefer to do it with a guided rail system, simply because of the safety factor. I've worked with table saws for years, and thankfully I still have all my digits. I know how to properly use a table saw, I understand table saw safety, and yet material will still inevitably kick. It's inherent in the design of the tool. Why should I or anyone else put themselves in such danger? There are far smarter ways to work. Obviously it's just my opinion. But it's an opinion I've given a lot of thought to.

[Burt Waddell]

Personaly, I feel buying any guide system to elimante or instead of a table saw is a mistake. BUT. If you have 40 boards say 4 feet long 6 inches wide that need to be ripped to be ripped to 5 5/8. I'll bet you it can be done faster on the table saw.

Your's and festools systems have their place.

What do you do if you want to cut 3 inch thick stock and don't have a bandsaw?

It is a GREAT supplement tool, but thats is what it is. Theres is no one absolute way to cut things. Persoanly I think they supplement each other.

Robert,

I invite you to go to the EZ Forum here on Sawmill Creek and read the thread on replacing your table saw with an EZ Smart. I think you will find it enlightening.

Now no one has said that a guided system will do each and every task the same way that a table saw will. Like any new tool, there is a learning curve involved in using the guided systems. I've had one in the shop for just over a year and due to health problems I've only worked with it for about 6 months but it has replaced a saw trax panel saw for cutting plywood and replaced my job site table saw for installation work. On almost a daily basis, it is being incorporated into another task in the shop.

Also keep in mind that some of the systems have different capabilities. For example some of the Festool owners have asked Dino to make versions of the clamping system, repeaters and router system for use with the Festool rails. The EZ system is unique in that the smart clamping system will hold very narrow pieces and the repeaters function like a fence for making several cuts of the same width. In fact they would perform great for the rips you were asking about. I would guess speed to be about the same but safety is much better with the EZ. There are several ways those rips could be made with the EZ.

I bought my EZ System simply for purpose of breaking down plywood but it is already doing much more than that. I've always used it for final cuts. Cut quality is as good if not better than a table saw. In fact I've checked it against my unisaw and the guided system did a better job.

When I bought my system, I would have said that it could not replace a table saw. After using it for a while, I see how it can.

The system performs very well with all the circular saws I have tried - Hilti, Festool, Skil, Makita (3 different models), Boche (2 models), PC (2 models), Milwaukee, and DeWalt. There is little difference in cut quality among the saws I listed above.

To answer the basic question: Yes, the guided systems can replace a table saw - it is happening everyday.

Burt

[Robert Mickley]

To each his own I guess. If your happy with just a guided rail system in your shop thats fine.

I would love to see you cut a couple hundred pieces for a segmented bowl with one. Of course I realize if your not a turner thats not the point. But I stand by my words that they work hand in hand together.

Your most likely never going to see one in myshop. I didn't say never but it not likely.