Need help with a plane

[Jon Eckels]

Hello all. I'm not much of a hand tool expert, so I need some help with this one... I need a plane that can widen a rabbet. You can see the attached picture to see exactly what I'm talking about. It's an example of what I'd like to do. In the picture, for instance, i built a frame with an 11/16th wide rabbet in it, and i'd like to widen the rabbet to 3/4. Or if I need to fine tune a cutout to fit an insert... I think the simplest way would be to use a hand plane specifically for the task, but i don't know enough about hand planes to know if such a thing even exists.

It obviously has to have the blade go all the way to the side of the plane, and the front of the plane to get into corners. It doesn't have to have a particularly wide cut, since the recesses aren't typically any deeper than 1/2".

And I really don't have the money to drop on an expensive plane. This isn't a hobby for me, it's a job and I don't exactly have money to throw around on fancy tools... I've seen some beautiful planes but with prices that make me gasp. I'd like something reasonable for contractor's use.

Can anyone help?

[Mike Wenzloff]

While I work mainly with handtools, I have worked as a finish carpenter and this issue of altering something prebuilt happens a lot.

I had one job where I needed to widen some rabbets on frames that I could not take apart, which is what I assume is the case here.

I always used a router for this and cleaned the corners up with a chisel.

Cheap solution--which you are not going to get by buying a purpose-built plane. And there really is no handtool option which will give you a single tool and clean corners all at once.

The closest will be the Lie-Neilson side-rabbet planes which can have the nose removed to get into a corner. You will need the pair. A router bit is cheaper.

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Jon,

You could always just use a chisel to clean up back to a line.

Do you have a chisel?

If you want to use a plane, you would need some type of shoulder, chisel, or rebate plane. Unfortunately a normal bench plane won't work.

[Jon Eckels]

yeah i could use a router bit, and i could use a chisel, but i was looking for the fastest way to make cleanup cuts to the rabbet, and I still think a plane would be the fastest. after checking out the lie-neilsen site that mike mentioned, i saw the rabbet planes, and saw that they were based on old stanley designs. So i looked on ebay and found some old stanley rabbet planes in good shape. So I'll bid on those. Thanks anyway.

[Jake Darvall]

So, the frames already assembled ? ...you can't take it apart ?

Well, if you can't, then I'd definetly say Mikes idea of routing it out is the easiest. Planes don't like to stop suddenly uno. ;)

Even if you can dissemble it, I'd say, since you want the job done quickly, and your not overly familar with planes, you won't be able to make a confident cut straight off with your newly bought plane. Takes some practise.

You'll also have to think about fixing each part of the frame firmly, so that no clamps or dogs or whatever you use runs foul of the plane. And since the ends are already mitred, that'll even be harder...

sound very negitive don't I :D sorry, but reakon you should take Mikes advice.....still buy them planes, but practise using them on some other project....just an opinion.

[Frank Conway]

Mike's routing idea gets another vote from me. Can't think of a faster way. (Can a newbie get away with saying that in the neander forum?)

[Mike Wenzloff]

yeah i could use a router bit, and i could use a chisel, but i was looking for the fastest way to make cleanup cuts to the rabbet, and I still think a plane would be the fastest. after checking out the lie-neilsen site that mike mentioned, i saw the rabbet planes, and saw that they were based on old stanley designs. So i looked on ebay and found some old stanley rabbet planes in good shape. So I'll bid on those. Thanks anyway.
The vintage side rabbets may well go beyond just plunking down the bucks for the LN versions. Really. Certainly as much except on the rare instance no collector or hardcore vintage tool person wants them. They don't come up that often. Often the price will rise appreciably in the last few minutes.

I have used the side rabbets for your application. But not when in a commercial, on-site or even time-sensitive setting. It will be slower and because of the short registration--the sole's length is rather short--there is the chance you will introduce a non-straight cut to the rabbets.

Also look for the Stanley #79 and the Preston/Sargent types. They have a longer sole. Here's what the #79 is:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm#num79

Kunz makes a new one, but I have no idea of the quality:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7178

They, at least the vintage ones, do work.

Take care, Mike

[Jon Eckels]

The frames that I want to modify are western red cedar, soft wood that would be very easy to trim back with a plane. I'm not doing trimming back on the whole length of the rail, like in the sketchup above, that was just a "for instance" I'm mostly going to be spot trimming. This is not exacting work either, not fine carpentry - these are panels for a screened-in porch that don't need to be perfect, they just need to hold some storm panel inserts that get clipped in with turn buttons. And no, they can't be taken apart.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Jon, then I would recommend the LN pair or the Stanley/Preston/Record/Sargent/Kunz double-end type of side rabbet plane. The Kunz is a reasonable cost and most likely would do what you need.

The L/R pair or the double-end are necessary for being able to go either direction.

fwiw, these are low angled planes and in softwood such as Cedar the cut can split into the main stock, so set for a light cut and have at it.

Take care, Mike

[tod evans]

jon, i think a 90 series stanley would suit your purpose, all have removable noses so they can be used as a chisel plane. or if you want to up the ante look at the record 311 it too can be used as a chisel plane...02 tod

[Alan DuBoff]

Kunz makes a new one, but I have no idea of the quality:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7178

They, at least the vintage ones, do work.Mike,

I have one of these, Hardwicks in Seattle sells it for $40.

Not a bad little plane, but needs to be fettled some out of the shrink-wrap.

For the amount that I'll use that type of plane, I was fine getting the Kunz. It's all about how well you sharpen the knives on that one. My $0.02

BTW, if anyone does go to Hardwicks (you can order by phone with them they told me but they don't normally handle that), they have some small Japanese scraper blades that is so handy, it was only $5, I use it all the time. I continually grab it to scrape glue off, clean paint off metal, it has a poker on the other end that is very handy, a very handy tool. I'm gonna get a few of them next time I'm there or order from them. It can be honed back up also to put a sharp edge on it.

[Pam Niedermayer]

There are also some excellent wooden side cutting rebate planes, much lower price than the 98/99 combo. The western versions you can purchase from Tony Murland and/or Andy Stephens. The Japanese version at any one of several vendors, Hida for example ( http://www.hidatool.com/woodpage/plane/narrowside.html ).

Pam

[Jon Eckels]

You true neanderthal woodworkers are going to kick me... lol

...but I found a plane that does exactly what I needed for about 8 bucks!

Grantes it's a modern stanley POJ with disposable blades, but it still curls the cedar really well, nice and clean, and gets perfectly into those corners that i needed to get into. Granted it's not for fine woodworking, but I was just looking to get this job done and what a luck it was to find these.

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=PRODUCT&CATEGORY=PLANES&PARTNUMBER=12-105

I'm still looking at the rabbet planes for future actual "woodworking" use (i.e. not rough construction), but this plane, for what it's worth, saved me a LOT of money and they got the job done.

[James Mittlefehldt]

You true neanderthal woodworkers are going to kick me... lol

...but I found a plane that does exactly what I needed for about 8 bucks!

Grantes it's a modern stanley POJ with disposable blades, but it still curls the cedar really well, nice and clean, and gets perfectly into those corners that i needed to get into. Granted it's not for fine woodworking, but I was just looking to get this job done and what a luck it was to find these.

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=PRODUCT&CATEGORY=PLANES&PARTNUMBER=12-105

I'm still looking at the rabbet planes for future actual "woodworking" use (i.e. not rough construction), but this plane, for what it's worth, saved me a LOT of money and they got the job done.


Then that's the bottom line isn't it, it did the job did not cost you much and everyone is happy. I have never seen those before but it looks like it might very well have a number of trimming uses.

[Gene DiNardo]

Hi Jon,
If you are set on going the neander route and want something economical
"Lee Valley/Veritas" has a neat little rabbet plane that uses a bench chisel
as the cutter. (you supply the chisel). There is a slight learning curve but for
toolbox/job site work it is quite handy,especially for one off tasks like you describe.
Gene D