bladegard on tablesaw

[Mario Lucchesi]

I am begining my search for a cabinet saw and just can't justify the extra money for a sawstop saw. I was wondering how many of you have been Saved injury by the blade guard of your tablesaw? I know that it is not the same but I was just wondering. I may just get the sawstop as my young son works in the shop with me I would feel horible if he were to be injured while using the saw, if I could have purchased a saw that would have prevented it.

[Charlie Plesums]

The sawstop is expensive, but a lot of that is because it is an exceptionally good cabinet saw. A cheaper contractor saw version of the sawstop is in the works. With a young woodworking partner, one of those may be a wise investment.

To answer your question, though... for many years my "only" saw was a radial arm saw - an old one that cannot be fitted with a blade-covering guard. This makes you very vigilant about exactly where your body parts are in relation to the blade. Personally I feel safer knowing exactly where the blade is, rather than the complacency that comes with a blade largely hidden by a guard.

[Tom Jones III]

I've got a lot of neighborhood kids that like to work in my shop and I've forbidden all power tools. I can't imagine letting anyone kid or adult work in my shop without the guards in place. The problem with the kids is they are so unpredictable, the most reliable and careful will suddenly do the worst imaginable thing at the worst time. I would rather they do that with a hand saw.

I recently got an overheard guard for my TS partly for DC put also so that I could use the guard for almost every cut that I make with the saw. When I bought my TS, the sawstop was just coming out. I wish that it had been out a little longer and I might have bought one. I would really be happy if sawstop would start selling an aftermarket add-on so I could incorporate it onto my PM 66.

[Ian Barley]

I replace the guard cover on my saw about every year where the plastic that it is made of isn't there anymore because it has come into contact with a fast spinning steel blade. Now in most of those instances the guard has been moved by the end of my push stick and not by my hand but I still work faster and happier because the guard is there. I know where the blade is without having to be able to see it. It's there, under the guard, spinning fast and making noise.

I hope that there has never been an instance in which the guard has saved me from an injury but I cannot honestly confirm one way or the other. There are several layers of protection in place (posture, positioning,riving knife, sliding carriage, pushstick) before the guard comes into play and I take each one of them as seriously as all the others. That said I like to know that they are all in place for every cut. Just like driving. I want brakes steering, alertness etc for every trip. In my view omitting any one weakens my defenses.

Much has been said on Sawstop and I don't intend to rehash but I consider that a good quality, useable blade guard, whether original or aftermarket, is an essential part of any tablesaw, including Sawstop.

Others will say that they have been using a TS since Noah was a lad without using a guard and that is their choice. I would never want to be responsible for advising anybody else to take that course of action.

[Rick Doyle]

I use the Sharkguard on my table saw. I don't know if it has 'saved' me from injury as I'm usually pretty careful around the TS - but, it makes me feel a bit safer for sure. There are a few times when I've had to stop myself from 'reaching' to pick up a cut-off piece - or pushing a rip piece and not using a push stick - not a good idea for a guy like me!!

One of the side benefits of my Sharkguard is dust collection - I have my DC connected to both the top of the saw and to the back - it works just great at keeping sawdust to a minimum.

[Jim Becker]

I cannot say that the Excalibur guard I have has ever prevented any injury--for me, it's more for the dust collection as I treat my cutting routine the same with or without the guard in use. I will say that the vast majority of OEM guards are largely unusable because they are inconvenient install and remove (some cuts just don't work due to the splitter and guard being one and the same) and once they come off, many folks "forget" to put them back on once a cut that cannot be made with the guard in place is completed. And most don't make the investment (or take the time to build) and aftermarket overarm guard.

[Chris Barton]

The Saw Stop is a great insurance policy for stupidity but, my own rule is that my piggies aren't ever allowed to come closer than 8" to moving steel and I always use push blocks and sticks as well as featherboards when applicable. Just my thoughts...

[Allen Bookout]

After working in commerical aviation for well over thirty years I know that a good mechanical system, such as a good blade guard, works every time. Does a good electrical system? Not exactly. My point is that a back up electrical system is fine but the first line of defense is anything that will keep your body away from the blade. Do not let all of the uproar about the sawstop stop you from using a good table/cabinet saw.

I have never been saved by a guard on a tablesaw but have had a few real bouts with a radial arm saw. Like Charlie, may be it was because I learned to stay away from the blade from my experiences over the years with the old radial arm saw that has prevented any accidents with the cabinet saw.

I think that in your case, it depends on how cautious your son is by nature and maybe to some extent how old he is. If you can afford the sawstop, go for it. If not there are other ways to remain safe.

[Tom Jones III]

Good response Allen.

A better question might be has anyone ever touched their blade guard while the saw was running? There is an argument to be made that this could count as a "save".

[Don Baer]

When I got my Jet TS I tried working with the cover in place as well as the splitter and pauls. I found that for me it was far more dangerous then the way I had been taught and that was with no guard in place. Mine is now stored soem where. Like Chris, I don't let my hands get near the blade, I always stand out of the line of fire. Whenever anyone who is not trained in how to safely operate the equiptment comes into my shop, I stop working and the machinery gets turned off and unplugged, unless I am teaching them how to safely operate the machinery.

[Dino Makropoulos]

The Saw Stop is a great insurance policy for stupidity but, my own rule is that my piggies aren't ever allowed to come closer than 8" to moving steel and I always use push blocks and sticks as well as featherboards when applicable. Just my thoughts...


Safe tools aren't made as an insurance policy to stupidity.
Safe tools are made prevent accidents.

If I have all my fingers is that make me smarter than others with less then 10 fingers?

Or...I should feel smarter because of so many accidents?

Luckier? Yes!

[Larry Fox]

...my piggies aren't ever allowed to come closer than 8" to moving steel...

Aren't piggies toes? :)

Sorry Chris, just having a little fun on a rainy Tuesday.

[Al Willits]

I may not unplug my equipt when someone comes in, but I do stop what I'm doing and deal with the visitor, not my power tools.
I'm new to woodworking, but been using power tools for many years, it only takes that brief moment of distraction to cause an injury.

Personally this stuff scares me a bit, and I intend to keep it that way, when I find I'm thinking of the next cut or step while I'm running a power tool, I'll stop and take a break, may sound dramatic, but I think you need a 100% of your attention on what your doing, especially with these kinda tools.

Did have a question on the overhead guards, do you find they work more often the the basic guard that came with most saws?
Seems there enough times that the OEM guard gets in the way that a overhead might work better??

Al

[Dino Makropoulos]

I am begining my search for a cabinet saw and just can't justify the extra money for a sawstop saw. I was wondering how many of you have been Saved injury by the blade guard of your tablesaw? I know that it is not the same but I was just wondering. I may just get the sawstop as my young son works in the shop with me I would feel horible if he were to be injured while using the saw, if I could have purchased a saw that would have prevented it.

Mario.
Don't even think about it.
Not only you're protecting yourself and your son,
from the most dangerous tool ever made
... but you're making woodworking better for future generations.

The push sticks and feather boards can only do so much.
Same with sliding tables and overhead guards.

The fact is that many times you can't use all the jigs and gadgets all the times.

But the sawstop is out of the way ...but always there.

Good luck.

[walter stellwagen]

When I was ten years old my dad made me come and work with him. my job was to turn the saw on and offf while we cut lumber. No guard.
I rested my elbow on the fence and turned the saw on as requested my shirt caught in the blade and my elbow followed.
Missed the major nerve by a small fraction of an inch. A seven inch scar serves as a reminder 67 tears later to use guard.

Walt

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If you were looking at a saw stop I'd suggest you take that same money and go look at a slider.
Thay are monstrously safer than the conventional saws and offer way more functionality tnan a saw stop.

[Mario Lucchesi]

Thank you all for the replies. My son is 15 and loves to be in the shop with me. It may be a while before I can afford a good saw as I am trying to close in the shop bafore the Michigan winter makes it too cold to work, the problem is that the building is 48' x 40' of which 48'X32' is the shop. I will look into sliders as I have not done that yet.

[Tom Andersen]

I have a blade guard but I have taken it off, it mostly seems to be in the way. I use the splitter all of the time though.

[Jay Knoll]

I'm waiting to see what the price etc will be on the contractor version of the sawstop. Did anyone see/learn anything about it at the Atlanta show -- sorry can't remember the appropriate acronym!

If you want more opinions about the saw from a pro search for Per's postings

Jay

[Julio Navarro]

I have an over head blade guard installed that doubles as DC. The DC function prevents me from removing the guard but I have made another guard that still works but keeps out of the way when I use jigs or make cuts that cannot be made with the overhead. I'll post some pics when I can.

I've had many encounters with the blade of my table saw witnessed by all the scars. The latest and probably the worst as I still do not have feeling in the tip of my right hand middle finger was when a plastic push stick made contact with the blade exploding the push stick and basically "blowing" it up. It exploded instantly into shards which laserated my finger rather deeply. Sometimes even the safety equipment is dangerouse.

I only use wood push sticks from now on and almost never remove the blade guard. Like Al said, it scares the beegeesus out of me.

[Al Willits]

Julio, was that one of the push sticks that Woodcraft sells??
I have three of them and ifso, I think I'll keep the rubber handles and replace the plastic..
Thanks for posting that, I'd never have thought they'd explode like that.

Al

[Robert McGowen]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I have a Jet cabinet saw that costs around $2000. The tip of my index finger on my left hand cost me about $1000 (with insurance :eek:) in medical bills, plus a week of down time. (Say a $1000) If I had to do it again, I would save the pain, down time, and permanent numbness and pay the extra money.

Put another way, it is just insurance. If you never use it, it is a waste of money. If you need it, it is worth way more than you paid for it.

Just my opinion. :rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

...the problem is that the building is 48' x 40' of which 48'X32' is the shop.

Umm...that's a problem?? I wish I had that one, too!! :D :D :D


will look into sliders as I have not done that yet.

Just for reference, Cliff's reference to a "slider" refers to a Euro-style slider, not an add-on unit for an American style table saw. Very different animal...and what I want to replace my cabinet saw with someday. Unfortunately, also generally in a price class above the SawStop, too.

[glenn bradley]

Al, my OEM guard was never on. This distressed me quietly in the back of my mind. I would read or hear about a bad saw incident now and then and finally heard enough. For a couple hundred bucks my overarm guard/DC gives me piece of mind. Easily swings out of the way if required, aids in dust collection and has even caught a few errant cut-offs under it's hood as opposed to launching them off the saw table. I feel better having it and it has not lead me to complacency as far as safety goes.

[Alan DuBoff]

Interesting thread. I do use a guard on my current saw, and think I'm going to use one of my replacement when it gets running.

Seems to me that guards are more popular with hobbiest, opposed to professional cabinet makers. I have a couple friends that are cabinet makers, when I mentioned to them, that I bought a machine that has a guard, both commented it would be the first thing coming off in his shop. Coincidence? Do I hang out with foolish derlicks from high school?

Chris, 8" from the blade is being a bit paranoid, but can never be too cautious with your digits. A sled helps some of those stupid pet tricks, in my experience.

With that said, I really need to take a pic of the guard from my Yates-American G89, it's been cut on many occasion by the 16" blade, and the navy had repaired and braised sections in the steel. Looking at it makes one realize that the guard on it is just not safe. I have been planning to get some type of guard, haven't figured out what yet. I do plan to keep the original guard stored off the machine. I can't imagine having shrapnel flying around the shop if the original cover drops on the blade while it's spinning.

[Ian Barley]

...Seems to me that guards are more popular with hobbiest, opposed to professional cabinet makers....

I'm not a cabinet maker but I do make a living at this. I easily make 10,000+ cuts a year on my TS. The total number of them made without a guard in place would be +/- 0 allowing for bounds of experimental accuracy.

[Tom Ruflin]

I have an Excaliber over head guard on my SawStop. I like the dust collection, it's easy to move out of the way when necessary and it keeps my hands away from the blade.

[Paul Kinneberg]

Mario
I just saw the Sawstop at IWF for the first time and had I not purchased a Powermatic 66 in Febuary of this year I would have bought it. Not only for the saftey but also features like the riving knife, dust collection at the blade, and the on off switch. It is a very nice cabinet saw.
Paul

[Chris Barton]

Aren't piggies toes? :)

Sorry Chris, just having a little fun on a rainy Tuesday.

What!?! Don't you use your feet when cutting on the table saw?:p

[Ben Grunow]

Mario- I am a carpenter by day and work in my workshop almost constantly at night and on weekends. I have never made a cut with a guard in place and frankly never gave it a thought until joining this forum this year (Never seen one in use on a jobsite either). I did spend the extra $ on the sawstop after reading about what a great saw it was and realizing that my shop will be used by others at some point. My father is getting older and my son (only 2) will be in the shop some day as well. I worry more about others than myself but I am sure that if I cut off a finger and realized later that it might not have happened for another $1500 I would feel stupid.

Remember, a little knowledge can be dangerous. You might teach your son how to use the saw for one type of cut and he might try another when you are not there.

My final justification for buying the S.S. was (try this)- look at all of your fingers and think about $1500 and try to imagine holding the $ with a hand with 4 fingers. Sounds creepy but its pretty convincing.

Injuries happen when you are not paying attention.

Let us know what you choose. Good luck.

[Alan DuBoff]

I'm not a cabinet maker but I do make a living at this. I easily make 10,000+ cuts a year on my TS. The total number of them made without a guard in place would be +/- 0 allowing for bounds of experimental accuracy.Do you think you're in the minority or majority of professional woodworkers?

Ben reflects the the atypical woodworker, IMO.

[Mike Kelly]

I have a Unisaw with an Excaliber guard and beis splitter. The Sawstop wasn't on the market when I purchased this a few years ago. I saw the quality of it at Woodcraft a few weeks ago and I would not hesitate to buy it. It is far superior as far as fit, finish, and quality design to any comparibly priced machine on the market today. I had to take a file and sandpaper to my offshore OEM piece of cast iron before I could walk around it without being cut on the corners. If I run my finger down the miter slot I will still draw blood every time. The Sawstop is a fine machine well worth the price even without all of the inherent safety features. My 2 cents.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I can't say for sure that I have been saved by a blade gaurd, but I have been hurt by one. When I was teaching school, we were cutting some small pieces on TS. Couldn't find one of the pieces, bent down and piece came flying out from under gaurd, causing me to get a bridge in front of mouth-$4200

[Ian Barley]

Do you think you're in the minority or majority of professional woodworkers?...

I don't give it that much thought. I believe that the presence of the guard makes it possible for me to work safer, faster. If somebody else believes that the absence of the guard lets them work safer, faster then they are welcome to that opinion - just not in my shop.

[Don Baer]

I don't give it that much thought. I believe that the presence of the guard makes it possible for me to work safer, faster. If somebody else believes that the absence of the guard lets them work safer, faster then they are welcome to that opinion - just not in my shop.

I think that this is the essence of the debate. If you are un-confortable with the guard then it is dangerous to the way you work, if you are confortable with it then you are better off without it. The key thing to remember is that the tool can mangle, maime and dismenber so whenever you operate it you should use proper steps to ensure your safety.

[Tom Jones III]

I can't say for sure that I have been saved by a blade gaurd, but I have been hurt by one.

You were not hurt by the blade guard, rather you were hurt because of a different reason.

[Ian Barley]

I can't say for sure that I have been saved by a blade gaurd, but I have been hurt by one. When I was teaching school, we were cutting some small pieces on TS. Couldn't find one of the pieces, bent down and piece came flying out from under gaurd, causing me to get a bridge in front of mouth-$4200
I hate to break it to you Bruce but you were hurt because you went looking for a piece of timber near a piece of spinning energy and put your eyeline (or mouthline) in a place where it should never be. I am not saying that if you had been standing upright you would have come off unscathed but one of the benefits of a guard is that anything propelled off a blade by centrifugal force has a limited window of exit - between the table and the guard. If it does still find its way out it might still find a sensitive body part :eek: but its chances are pretty slim.

In these threads there is always a selection of people who say that they don't need guards because of there use of technique and procedure. They can be completely correct in that if you always use correct technique and perfect procedure then you can indeed work risk all the way down to near zero. But one of the basic principles of technique and procedure ought to be "don't do anything unplanned or unrehearsed while the blade is spinning." What would you have done if you had seen the timber - reached in and dug it out?

Lets at least acknowledge that if something unforseen happens during a cut it is preferable, wherever possible, to stop the blade before we start improvising.

[tod evans]

mario, given that your son will be using the equipment also, installing a usable guard would be prudant..most saws don`t come with guards that are actually usable. i`ve grown accustomed to not using guards on my saws but with a youngster comming up i`m making conscious efforts to place them into service, especially when my son is in the shop. for standard cabinet type saws there are lots of aftermarket guards that work well, don`t hamper your vision of the blade or restrict wood movement past the blade. find one you can tollerate and let your son learn to opperate the saw with the guard...after a few years under his belt he can make his own decisions as to whether or not he wants to continue using a guard. myself, i`ll use `em when my son is around but i`m much more comfortable not using them...02 tod

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I tossed my guard the day I bought my first TS.
I have not installed the guard on my current saw
I don't use the riving knive unless I have a reason.

I did install and do use the guard on my 12" jointer.
I think the difference is the proximity to the cutterhead. It's just so damn close to the hands and arms, one little slip would be a major issue.

The TS doesn't present that same risk.

I am just one of those crazy people who over 36 years has never cut himself on any machinery. Having spent over 15 yrears as a machinist tool maker probably instilled a great deal of safe habits around machines.

Try to live with the guard. If you can then fine if not then try that too.

[Robert Strasser]

I never put my OEM guard on my saw. The PM66 guard looked interesting (the all metal one), but I couldn't see what I was doing with it on. I have an overhead guard and Bies splitter. I've never been hurt by the blade, but I've had a few kick backs. I'm much more concerned about kick backs than cutting myself on the blade. Avoiding both hazzards require 100% attention to what you are doing and proper technique.

[Eddie Darby]

Let me say first that I am the only user of my table saw, so I will not have to concern myself with others using it. If however I did have to let others use my table saw then I would go with SawStop all the way. Peace of Mind is worth every cent. An added bonus is also that the saw itself looks like it is very well made!

I've made jigs, and I do everything within my power to make sure that no accident will happen, but I can't say that others will do the same, and though youth does have it's advantages, generally wisdom is not considered to be at the top of the list. I guess what makes an accident an accident is that it is an accident! If it isn't an accident then what is it? When I talk to people who have been injured, or who know someone who has been injured usually the word "weird" is used. The word "Weird" must be related to the word "Accident" !

The *Only* thing that I know of, that can prevent an accident from reaping it's full wrath, is a *back-up*, *fail-safe mechanism*, which is what precisely the SawStop is. Read that again carefully.

It should not be seen as the first line of defense, but more as a precaution against "weird" things from happening, after taking all the safety precautions one can possibly take.



After getting a SawStop saw, I would say that the next best safety tip I could give to table saw owners is to also own a bandsaw. When I do up-grade my Jet cabinet saw it will be a saw with the SawStop features.

The British have a saying, and that is "Belt and Braces" ( braces also known as suspenders, across the pond in the Americas ). I guess the modern day version would be "Belt and Velcro". A SawStop with a blade guard and all the other safety stuff will keep your pants up. Of course you may look weird wearing them both....

[Jeffrey Makiel]

When I decided to build my overarm dust hood, I did some research on this forum and others. I found that many folks required the overarm guard to be removed for many operations. I've been foolin' around with woodworking for over 20 years, and I had a gut feeling that this was sound advice.

I must admit that I built my overarm hood mainly for dust collection purposes. Not for safety.

My biggest concern with a tablesaw is kickback, and a good splitter or riving knife is the answer in my mind. I do not rely on an overam hood or guard for protection although it does provide some degree of protection from accidentally sweeping my hand across the blade. But, again, it's kickback that scares me.

Now that I've been using one for the past 9 months, I've confirmed that the overarm hood is often removed for operations such as ripping thin strips, tenons and raising panels. But I must admit that I love the dust collection it provides when it is in place. Fortunately, I designed my homemade guard with a quick swing away feature. Pics below.

cheers, Jeff

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/MyGuard1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/MyGuard3.jpg

[Terry Flowers]

Jeff, this is one of the best looking designs for a shop-built overarm guard with dust collection that I have seen. Would you kindly provide some more closeup photos of the construction details? I think it would justify a new thread.

Thanks,
Terry

[Brad Noble]

Pardon me while I study this thing for a while. Looks very VERY nice and well built, well except for the coffee can. :p

Nice job Jeff!


Brad

[Bruce Benjamin]

I really don't understand what the problem that some people have with the stock guard on the TS is? I have a General International 50-185 saw with the stock guard in place. It's not an expensive or fancy saw at all but it gets the job done quite well. I've used the saw with the guard on for most but not quite all cuts since the day I bought it. Rips, cross cuts, usually no problem at all with it getting in the way or somehow making the cut process more dangerous. With the exception of very narrow rips, I don't see any way that it's presence can make performing the cut more dangerous. It doesn't even get in my way except for narrow rips and, of course, for dados. It's very easy to remove and reinstall if I do have to remove it. Probably takes me less than 60 seconds because I keep the necessary wrench handy.

So, could it be that the simple GI blade guard is superior to most others or is it that other people are just looking for an excuse to remove their blade guards? Or do we have different ideas of what, "Inconvenient", and "In the way", and, "unsafe" mean? I suppose that the GI guard is better than some but I haven't seen too many others that are drastically different than mine. I guess if you use your TS in ways I haven't thought of there might be some problems.

I find myself using the EZ Smart for the most of my cuts now, especially for narrow rips on both sheet goods and solid wood, but there are still some cuts I do on my TS. But anything that requires my hand to get near the blade makes me very aware of the potential damage. The only injuries I've ever received from my TS have been from material being kicked back and hitting my hands. I've got a couple of scars to remind me. No matter how safe my technique is on my TS, I realize I can still sneeze at the wrong time, slip while making a cut, or just have a moment of brain fade. At those times, the technique I'm using changes and it's easy to get hurt. The blade guard is there to protect me at those times. Not to stop me from running my hand into the blade when I'm thinking straight.

I remember someone posting on one of the WW forums about his high school shop teacher teaching them to always position themselves on the TS during a cut so that if they sneeze, cough, pass out, have brain fade, whatever, their hand or arm or body won't somehow find it's way to the saw blade. That's some darn good advice but it's not always practical. I don't have any experience with the Saw Stop but I have read most threads on the WW forums that I've come across. I'm just not sold by the silly hotdog stunt. That's fine if you slowly push your finger into the blade like they do with the hotdog. You only get a small cut. But what about the real world of wood working accidents? You slip, the piece kicks back and disappears, whatever, and your hand goes into the blade very quickly. Even the Saw Stop website says that if you push your hand into the blade faster than the hotdog, (paraphrasing) you're likely to suffer a more serious injury than just a nicked finger. Probably less than a saw without the Saw Stop technology but potentially a very serious injury. If I had the money I'd buy the Saw Stop but I'd never use it with the attitude or speak it's praises like using one is the end of serious TS injuries. I see this attitude a lot and I think it's a mistake.

There are so many parallels between attitudes towards using a blade guard and using seat belts. Obviously you don't have to worry about someone else screwing you up while using the TS like you do when driving. But as long as you make no mistakes while driving without belts or cutting on your saw without the guard in place you're fine. Most people get along their whole life without actually needing either one. But most people know of someone who would be alive had they worn their seat belts or would have all of their fingers if they used their blade guard. The people who say the blade guard is dangerous remind me of the people who say that seat belts are dangerous. Brilliant! :rolleyes: But...Do what you like in your own shop or your own car.

Bruce

[Art Mulder]

I really don't understand what the problem that some people have with the stock guard on the TS is? I have a General International 50-185 saw with the stock guard in place.
Bruce,

I also own a GI 50-185 saw. I made my own splitter, and I talk about it
here. (http://www.imaging.robarts.ca/%7Eamulder/wood/j.splitter/)

My reasons for not using the stock guard is I found it to be far too large and cumbersome. One of the most useful jigs that I built for my table saw was a cross cut sled. I used it regularly, and found it to be much more safe and useful than the stock miter guage. But you can't use that jig with the stock guard/splitter. The splitter is too big, it's too much in the way. But neither can you easily or simply remove it. The guard/splitter is bolted into place, which requires a few minutes fiddling with a wrench to mount/unmount. This is not acceptable to me. I require a splitter which either removes quickly or is built such that it doesn't interfere with my sled.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Sorry, did not mean to hijack this thread.

My homemade overarm dust hood was posted here about a year ago.

If anyone is interested in an electronic booklet that describes how I built the overarm hood, just PM me with your email address. The booklet is an Adobe Reader PDF file about 147K in size.

Some more pics...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/OverarmDustHood270x360.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/DSCF0450676x507.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/MyGuard2.jpg

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce,

I also own a GI 50-185 saw. I made my own splitter, and I talk about it
here. (http://www.imaging.robarts.ca/%7Eamulder/wood/j.splitter/)

My reasons for not using the stock guard is I found it to be far too large and cumbersome. One of the most useful jigs that I built for my table saw was a cross cut sled. I used it regularly, and found it to be much more safe and useful than the stock miter gauge. But you can't use that jig with the stock guard/splitter. The splitter is too big, it's too much in the way. But neither can you easily or simply remove it. The guard/splitter is bolted into place, which requires a few minutes fiddling with a wrench to mount/unmount. This is not acceptable to me. I require a splitter which either removes quickly or is built such that it doesn't interfere with my sled.

Art, I appreciate that you can't use the GI guard with a sled but you can't do that with any table-mounted blade guard. There are easy ways to incorporate a guard over the blade on a TS sled. But I don't understand why it's hard for you to remove the guard on your saw. As I said in my post, I can do it in under a minute with ease. No fiddling around on my part. I crank down the blade, loosen the bolt behind the blade, loosen the two bolts at the back of the table and it's off. Putting it back on is just as easy. You'll obviously work however you want in your shop but there isn't much time wasted, (well under a minute) by using the guard. I'm curious what other sort of cuts you make without the sled where the guard is, "far too large and cumbersome". If all you use your TS for is for cross cuts on your sled then I understand. For me the only time it's in the way at all is when ripping really narrow strips or when doing dados. To each their own though.

Bruce

[Alan DuBoff]

Bruce,

Might be time for a couple deep breaths. It's only a guard, and we all get to take care of our own fingers, afterall.

Always good to have an open mind.

When I first brought up how most professionals don't use guards, I don't think that's some new phoenomena, this has been going on for decades. There are 2 camps on this issue and nobody is going to convert the opposite camp. You seem putoff that Art doesn't use a guard on his saw, when you do on the same saw. But no reason to.

I have much respect for Sam Maloof, I have one of his videos, and he talks about the fingers he's lost and accidents he's had in the shop over the years. Here's a guy that crafts some wonderful chairs, and has been doing it for years. He's had all types of accidents, cut fingers off on both hands, jointer accidents, bandsaw accidents, etc...

When I watch him sling his old router around in the video, it scares me, he's just using it to hog off material, but it's the way he does it that it seems almost like careless work habits. But he's been doing it for many years and it works for him. He doesn't have a guard on his table saw, and he often cuts with his bandsaw having 6"-8" of exposed blade. He would tell you as soon as anyone else not to work like he does, in fact he tells folks never to use their bandsaw like he does.

This is to say, we all work differently, some of use a guard, and some don't. FWIW, I do use one and will most likely continue to use another on my next table saw which I'm preparing to replace it. I will not use the stock guard on it, I don't consider it to be safe.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Bruce,

Might be time for a couple deep breaths. It's only a guard, and we all get to take care of our own fingers, afterall.

Always good to have an open mind.

.

Deep breath? Uh, what part of my last sentence, "To each their own though." didn't you get? No problems here. This was a discussion on TS guards. I wasn't, "Put out" at all. I was pointing out that I didn't think it was difficult or time consuming to install or reinstall the guard on my brand of saw. No where in my posts did I try to convince anyone to use their guard. I just don't see where the inconvenience of using the guard is. I was questioning the excuse for not using a blade guard because of inconvenience. Using Sam Maloof, a guy who's lost fingers, as an example in this discussion seems pretty funny to me. The fact that he's had lots of accidents and lost fingers seems to point out that it doesn't really work for him with regards to safety. Well, unless you consider losing fingers, "Working for him". :eek: No doubt that he's a master with wood and I am familiar with his incredible work. But since the OP was asking about TS safety I figure that maybe he might've wanted some options that didn't involve amputations, especially for his kid. I thought I was contributing to the discussion and didn't realize that I was upset. Thanks for setting me straight though.:rolleyes:

Bruce

[Alan DuBoff]

Bruce,

I know I'm certainly having a hard time seeing your view, in the way you express it online. I'm sure others are as well, but in your words, "to each their own though".

For those who use a guard, don't forget to hug it tonight, with the fingers you still have. For those without guards on their table saws, you can still play along if you have fingers, and hug your table with the fingers you still have.

Quite honestly, I think using a table saw with no guard is much safer than living in Japan. Heck, when I was there in the 80s, guys were always getting their fingers cut off...:p (There's some yakuza humor in there for Stu :eek: ).

[Tom Jones III]

Best part of this thread, hands down (maybe that is a bad phrase here) ... anyway the best part of this thread, to paraphrase "all the fingers he has cut off from both hands and all the accidents he has had, but it works for him!"

[Jim Becker]

This guard looks very much like the one that WOOD Magazine featured a number of years ago...

[Chip Olson]

As I think I said last time this issue came around, one of the things I really like about my Craftsman 22114 is that the blade guard can be taken off or put on in 10 seconds. I really hate cutting without the guard and avoid it whenever possible. I need a better place to stow it, though; right now I balance it precariously on top of the case for my router that's under the left extension wing.

[Julio Navarro]

Hi Al, no it was from HF...one more in a series of reasons why I wont buy from them any more.

I'll take a pic of the exploded peice some day and show it to you.