Building a Fence - Tools (TS) and opinions

[Charles Wilson]

Here is the elementary logic - If dog, then fence.

This is what my wife told me. We live on a fairly busy street and have two young children and I would like to get a dog. So the boss told me that a fence was in order. Here is the preliminary plan that I am planning on using -(I have been told that there is construction flaws by other members here and opinions for correcting are appreciated) http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/home_improvement/1276551.html?page=1&c=y

The whole thing is a HUGE positive for me.

1) Kids are safe and happy.
2) Wife is happy.
3) Excuse to buy more tools.
4) We get dog
5) I get shop time.
6) Wife is happy.
7) Wife is happy.
8) Wife is happy.

This is the dilema.

I will have to cut down lumber to get to the approriate dimensions for the fence pickets. I currently have or have access to all kinds of hand power tools and some power tools (miter saw, EZ system, planer).

I can use the EZ system which would handle to task of sizing the pickets. However, as stated before this is an opportunity to acquire more tools. So, I am thinking of picking up a table saw from Grizzly (maybe the repeaters from EZ). I know as stated before that I should get the best that I can afford. I can afford a 3 hp cabinet saw from Grizzly but that doesn't mean that I am going to get one due to my status as a hobbyiest. However, I am looking to make some furniture for our house in the future.

So I am trying to decide as to which model I will get the Grizzly Hybrid (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0478) or one of the Contractor models (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z). BTW - Don't have 220V to the garage but can and probably will get that in the future.

As far as reasoning, I am aware that the Hybrid is able to provide more weight and better dust collection but am not sure if this is going to be worth it b/c my workshop is in an detached garage and driveway. I am not going to be ripping sheet goods on it because I feel that the EZ is the way to go for me.

What is a guy to do?

Attached you'll find pictures of my yard and garage workshop. You can comment using this if you find it helpful.

Regards,
Chuck

[scott spencer]

The G0444Z is a good solid contractor saw with an excellent fence, but it has no advantages over the G0478 hybrid, other than being ~ $140 less expensive. The design of the hybrid's body, drive system, and even trunnions is superior to that of the G0444Z, so between those two, if money's not the deciding factor, it's a no brainer IMO. A cabinet saw has more advantages yet, but cost jumps to over $1k plus requires 220v. While the cab saw would be nice, there should be nothing you can't cut with good alignment and the right blade on the other two choices.

Good luck!

[Greg Koch]

Chuck,

Once the fence is done, what do you want to do as far as woodworking then? In other words, would you be better using the EZ and miter saw to build the fence...with some extra $ of other tools, EZ accessories...or buy the TS?

[Jerry Olexa]

Check your local zoning or code...Hate to say it but it can limit your options on what type fence you can build OR get underground which I have (Oooops then you couldn't get new tools):)

[Charles Wilson]

Jerry,

Underground? Fence is 4 foot high picket. Passes code fine. http://www.cityofbinghamton.com/faq.asp#259 - Under building construction. May need permit though.

Greg,

Furniture.

Scott,

Know anyone who has the Griz hybrid?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Tom Jones III]

Be sure and think about what kind of dog you are going to get, that fence isn't much of a barrier to a motivated dog. For an idea my old Doberman could jump a 6' fence and they are not known for being jumping dogs.

With a picket fence allowing visual stimulation, many large dogs will simply go right through the pickets.

[Chris Padilla]

I had a Black Lab/Irish Setter mix dog growing up...she could scale a 6' fence no problem. We caught her several times and just watched in amazement how a 90 lb dog used the rails in the fence at the corner to help her scamper over it!

[John Kain]

I would think you would have to limit the dog to a very small one. I would think even a cocker spaniel would not have a problem getting over a 4' fence if properly motivated......

[Charles Wilson]

I have decided, I will use the EZ for the fence. I guess it didn't take that long to decide.

However, I am finding that your comments on the fence itself would be quite useful. I am reconsidering fence height already from what you have said. We are looking at a Lab. By making a fence like I have linked to, it will do the following:

1) immediately increase the price on the fence

2) look odd as I have not ever seen a 6 ft picket.

I am using the book The Fence Bible which has been great. But am going to need some suggestions on design.

Let Er' Rip,

Chuck

[John Kain]

Another problem I potentially would consider.....

If the fence is going to be facing the sidewalk and street, it might have quite an adverse effect on your property value as well as your neighbors'. Tall fences by a sidewalk don't really look that good in most circles. I wonder if your neighbors would get upset. Just some more to think about....

[Greg Koch]

I have decided, I will use the EZ for the fence. I guess it didn't take that long to decide.

Chuck

Uh, that was quick! Your decision, or her's? :D :D

So...no TS?

If you get a Lab, that picket fence will be just a decoration...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You can have 220 in the shop without running a 220 line.
If you have teo seperate lines in the shop you are already golden.
If not you simply need to run a couple of 12-2-w/grnd cables from two seperately breakered lines.

For years I ran my 220 TS from two 20 amp lines. Each line was 110 vac and breakered with a 20 amp breaker.

I had one line in already so I simply ran another line into the shop from another 20 amp line to another 110 outlet. I puyt the outlets next to each other.


Then I made up a cable and socket assemply with two conventional 110 style plug and merged them together together into one and that ran to my TS.
It was all of maybe 2 hours work.

The TS motor in question was a 2 HP and ran fine.
I wouldn't run a 4 or 5 HP on a 20 amp line because they need 30 amps

It probably wasn't code but I didn't much care as it wasn't intended to be permanent.

Now that I'm running a couple 4 HP baldors that demand 30 amps, I have had to do it right. Which of course meant a new sub and some expensive cable.

[Chris Padilla]

Another problem I potentially would consider.....

If the fence is going to be facing the sidewalk and street, it might have quite an adverse effect on your property value as well as your neighbors'. Tall fences by a sidewalk don't really look that good in most circles. I wonder if your neighbors would get upset. Just some more to think about....

Agree fully with John...big fences on the front of a house rarely look good unless your house is enormous (re: mansion) and you are set back from it a fair distance (which you are not). It also makes your house less freindly looking. Tall fences are meant for the back yard...not the front...usually. Can you keep the dog in the back and build the light, airy, friendly 3-4' picket fence?

[Charles Wilson]

Can't do it in the backyard as we don't have one. House is set back from the road and only backyard we have is the the size of a dog run then the neighbors driveway.

Sounds like I am going to be between a rock and a hard place.

FYI - The dog will not be left out there alone. The fence primarily to keep the rugrats in.

Wasn't planning on a tall fence for the reasons mentioned.

Perhaps a moat would do. Oh, that's right, Labs like water. :)

Regards,
Chuck

[Tony Falotico]

I would think even a cocker spaniel would not have a problem getting over a 4' fence if properly motivated......

And if they can't get OVER, they will DIG UNDER !!

[Mark Berenbrok]

I purchased a RAS to make my fence many years ago. If I had to do it again, a sled on a TS would probably have been a better way to go. My best advice would be to prime and paint the components before you build the fence. You'll be a lot happier with the finished product.

[Jeremy Gibson]

And if they can't get OVER, they will DIG UNDER !!

That's why my fence (6' high cedar) has 4" of concrete at ground level between each post. It's like a curb, but it's in the ground instead of over it.

[David Briski]

What if you made your decrative 4' Picket fence and put in an underground "Invisible" Fence a couple feet back from the fence so it would be the real fence to keep him in the property but the decorative fence would keep the rugrats in. Unless you want to put a collar on them too ;) J/K.

[Charles Wilson]

Now David, that is a heck of an idea. Why didn't I think of that?

Chuck

[Charles Wilson]

Got a pic or the fence Jeremy?

Regards,
Chuck

[Tom Jones III]

I was also going to suggest the electric fence under the picket fence but you need to get it installed while it is still a puppy. We got our Dobe when she was an adult, the previous owners used to try to contain her with an electric fence used for cows - she would just take the hit and keep on going. If you get it when they are a puppy it should work fine.

[Blaine Harrison]

And if they can't get OVER, they will DIG UNDER !!

Man, you guys gotta train your dogs! If you have a puppy and he's more interested in being with you than running away, you won't have problems. I've had three dogs and the only one I needed to use a leash with when I walked was a golden retriever mix. She just wanted to go see other people so they could pet her (which was the only purpose for a human as far as she was concerned). I spent a lot of time with those dogs when they were puppies and I can tell you that all of them preferred to be with me and the family than running off somewhere else.

Now back to the fence. Sounds like you've made your decision. I don't know enough about the EZ-Smart to give an opinion. I just wanted to talk about dogs. :rolleyes:

Blaine

[Andy Hoyt]

Here's a fence I built a while back on a former home. Were I still there and had to rebuild it, I'd probably go with something different. It might provide you with some inspiration, though.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28921&d=1136439392

[Danny Flynn]

Charles, you may want to look at Jerry's post again. You may be surprised at what you're allowed (and NOT allowed) to do as far as building codes go. There are a lot of odd rules out there in different communities. And just a heads up -in NY they probably want you to have the posts cemented well below the frost line.


I agree with the posts that state that if you do a picket fence it's mostly for decoration. I know you say you'll be out there with the dog, but a dog will need to go out at least 3 times a day, and you're enthusiasm to be out there with him will dwindle. My guess is after awhile you'll end up chaining him anyway. Plus, you'll want to restrict him to a smaller area when he does his job soit will be easier to clean up.

[Jon Eckels]

Charles, you may want to look at Jerry's post again. You may be surprised at what you're allowed (and NOT allowed) to do as far as building codes go. There are a lot of odd rules out there in different communities. And just a heads up -in NY they probably want you to have the posts cemented well below the frost line.

The fence should be alright as long as you're not using it as a fence for around a pool. I'm out in the hamptons, and we have the most restrictive (and ludicrous) building codes in NY State, and we have no restrictions on picket fences. they don't really even have to be cemented in (though it's a darn good idea).

Charles, as far as buying the tools, I've found that I've essentially replaced my table saw with the EZ. I still have two table saws, an old Craftsman shop saw, and a pretty new (last year I bought it) Craftsman Contractor TS. I was thrilled with the purchase of the new TS, but I've found that there's not much I need it for anymore. I do a lot of door and window construction, and I find that the table tool I use most is my router table. I just bought a used/new one from a user here, a Bench Dog contractor table. It's a wonderful portable table, and though I use the EZ for a lot of long router passes, and mortise and tenons, it will never replace a router table for full sized stile and rail work. I also use my router table for edge joining, as I don't have a full sized flatbed joiner. It works wonderfully. Plus you can save the shop space by using the EZ instead of the TS.

If you don't already have one, then the tool to get would be a router table. Obviously in the end it will depend mostly on what you plan to build with your tools in the future, but I think a well built router table is probably the most versatile tool available.

[Ben Grunow]

Looks like a great fence design with the large posts but I never build gates without a diagonal brace to keep them square over time and I would keep that bottom rail at least 3" above the grass so the weed wacker doesnt ruin it on the first pass (maybe the second). I also never put concrete around my fence posts, just a little gravel in the bottom of th hole and tamp the earth back in real tight with the round head of digging bar or a 2x4.

Fences are fun to make and install, good sense of accomplishment. Good luck.

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote=Charles Wilson]Jerry,

Underground? Fence is 4 foot high picket. Passes code fine. http://www.cityofbinghamton.com/faq.asp#259 - Under building construction. May need permit though.


Chuck[/quot

Charles: By underground I mean "invisible fence" or wire buried underground carrying a signal which activates the dog's collar if he strays past the boundary. No physical fence is there. The wire controls are in the garage and on your dog's collar. Not for everone. But allows the dog to roam within your property without a fence. There are DIY kits for these also. I like ours.

[Jim Becker]

The Griz 2hp "Hybrid" requires a 30 amp 120v circuit to operate based on the specification sheet. It's really more suitable for use on 240v and in that case, the 1023 series is the better buy.

[Charles Wilson]

Dan,

Are you serious?

We lost a dog about a two years ago and never "lost interest" in him or just "chained him up outside". In fact, we miss him everyday. I spent a small fortune trying to save him because I thought it was the honorable thing to do for a friend. He was a big part of our family and to treated him like one of our kids.

Thanks,
Chuck