table saw operating question

[Frank Fusco]

On a recent Norm Abrams show he reduced the width of a board on his table saw by placing the wide part inside the blade and rip fence. This surprised me. For whatever reason, when I started making stuff from wood, I always placed (and still do) the narrow part inside the blade/fence. Which is correct? Why? Does it really matter?

[Peter Gavin]

Technically, I believe that Norm was correct. Whenever possible you should have the wide part of the board between the blade and the fence. I have even seen some recomendations that when cutting multiple thin identical strips the thin strip should be outside of the blade and then the fence should be moved for each cut. I consider this overkill, but given a choice I always put the wide part of the board inside the fence.

Peter

[Aaron Beaver]

I don't want to take away from Franks post but this is a similiar deal. What about crosscutting? Does it matter which side the "fall off" is on? Can you put the miter gauge on the right side of the blade?

[Ian Gillis]

Hi

I don't think there's anything wrong with the way you do it, but it's not the way I do it. I learned my tablesaw technique in a professional setting - lots of sheets goods and Biesmeyer fences. It's very natural if you're working off a cutting list to set the width and do it that way. Other saws that haven't got quick accurate ways of setting width will require you to use a measuring tape and then one side is *almost* as good as the other. I say almost because the offcut side is more likely to go crooked on you at the tail end of the cut than the one that keeps contact with the fence.

Cheers

IG

[tod evans]

frank, i put the "keeper" piece between the blade-n-fence regardless if it is the smaller or larger portion of the board.

aaron, on a conventional tablesaw the only way i`ll crosscut is with a sled, i don`t care for miter gages regardless of their cost. most if not all ride in one slot and don`t offer the accuracy of a well made sled. most sliding miter saws can be used to crosscut in excess of 12" and by rolling the board you can gain another 1-2".
.02 tod

[Don Baer]

I was taught the same way Norm does it, but I also was taught before there were accurate fences so I alway to this day measure the distance with a tape between the saw curf anf the fence face.

[Howard Acheson]

In the tablesaw safety classes I taught, the wider piece went between the blade and the fence in most cases. This way there is less chance for the piece to skew and create a kickback.

The way Norm did it is the correct way from a safety point of view.

[glenn bradley]

Now this is an interesting conversation. My father uses the small piece between blade and fence method, I avoid it when possible. Unless I am cutting something off a panel that is too big to fit between the blade and my fence, I always have the keeper between blade and fence. I don't think they make 7 foot rails without intending large panels to be riding between blade and fence, eh? I reality, does it matter? As long as the captured piece is controlled; push block, feather board, whatever. I am totally uncomfortable with any uncontrolled small piece left between blade and fence after a cut . . . think pinball . . . and your face is the target.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I just do whatever works preferring not to have the blade laying off at an angle into the Fence.
Angle cuts tend to present to most issues for pinching the stock.

I wonder if there are stats comparing whether accidents are more common on cuts with the blade off at some angle.

[Jim Becker]

"Big piece to the fence" for me, too. Safer, IMHO, and it also means that the off-cut (waste) is to the left of the blade; the place that if it is caught by the blade it is more likely to head back and to the left, rather than to where I am standing. Obviously, the exception to this is when ripping narrow strips. They stay against the fence and out of necessity, the wider part of the board is outside of the blade...but it gets narrower and narrower... ;)

[Aaron Beaver]

What if you have repeat cuts, wouldn't the keeper (proabably smaller) piece be against the fence so you don't have to keep moving the fence over for your next cut?

Sorry Frank I don't mean to interupt, but I hope these questions are along the same lines.

[George Summers]

'Keeper piece' against the fence. Isn't that what fences are really for, to measure the 'keeper piece'?

George

[Lee Schierer]

For most rip cuts, I keep teh wide piece next to teh fence. However, there are times when I place the narrow piece next to teh fence when I want to make repetative widths, or when dealing with sheet goods and I can't fit the wider piece between the fence and the blade.

For cross cuts, normally the piece I want is on the miter gage. When I have a piece that is long, sometimes, the piece I want is to the other side of the blade.

[glenn bradley]

For repeat, thin cuts I use a stop block clamped to the fence. Unlike a lot of photos of this you see using a piece of 3/4" material, I use a 'stand-off' that will leave adequate room between the blade and fence for the now-free piece to live in without getting pinched or dancing around and getting back to the blade.

[Alan DuBoff]

When I was in high school, my teacher made a point that we never had the small cut-off trap'd between the blade/fence, and the holes on the wall behind the table saw were proof that it was not a good thing to do.

Oh, sure...kids would do it anyway, that's how 'ya learn I 'spose...and that's where those holes came from in some cases! :D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

What if you have repeat cuts, wouldn't the keeper (proabably smaller) piece be against the fence so you don't have to keep moving the fence over for your next cut?

There was a thread not to long ago ( a few days I think) dealing in a method to do this using a little jig on a conventional TS. I can't recall the OPs name. But he posts a fairly large bit on technique and ideas to get stuff done.

On a conventional sas I've used a dedicated pusher to get thin strips through the blade and fence.
I can still do that but now I have a slider on which I can hang a jig that will let me move the work in reliable increments.

If a little piece pinches between the bl;ade and fence the worst thing that will likely happen is splinters in the face. A kick back with a large chunk of wood has some inertia.

[Steve Clardy]

I always have the keeper to the fence.
Even narrow strips.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Cliff said

There was a thread not to long ago ( a few days I think) dealing in a method to do this using a little jig on a conventional TS. I can't recall the OPs name. But he posts a fairly large bit on technique and ideas to get stuff done.

Clif is correct, here is all the post
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=41790

Attached one picture from the post

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/Strips/S6.jpg

[Mike Jory]

Frank, I always keep the save piece between the fence and the blade. I'm a righty, so when I push with my hand, or a stick, I push stright ahead of me, right onto the outfeed table. My left hand takes the cutoff out of the way, or just leave it and walk away from the saw. Also, when standing naturally at the saw ready to cut, the off switch is right below my left hand.
Even on repeated cuts, I like my saw & fence, but I like my safety and body parts more.
Another huge reason is that I'm used to putting one finished, or jointed edge at the fence.
Mike

[Frank Fusco]

It was amazing to see how many responses to my question were posted in short order. I do thankee all. The advice given was a good mix of experience and common sense. My practice will change. I will keep the "keeper" inside the blade/fence. Makes sense as the fence is the guide. Occasional rare exceptions might call to do it another way but for consistent results and safety, it will be keep the keeper inside.

[Julio Navarro]

I cut with the keeper between the saw and fence, for small strips I use a stop block to allow the strip to go free of the saw once cut.

[Corey Hallagan]

I always cut wide part on fence side of the blade. Have for 20. years. Don't know if it is right or not.

Corey

[lou sansone]

the keeper in between the blade and the fence for me as well

lou

[Norman Hitt]

Keeper between the blade & fence even on thin strips where I use a slider board jig for repetitive cuts. For crosscuts, I mostly use a sled, but "IF" I use a mitre guage, it is always on the Right side of the blade, (especially since all my saws are left tilt), but that is where it is most comfortable to me also.

[Matt Warfield]

Keeper between fence and blade for me as well. Unless of course I'm cutting a bevel. The only time I've experienced kick-back was cutting a bevel on a right tilt saw and fence on the right. Caught me right in the hip bone. Bruise was there for five weeks but I was very thankful I don't stand right behind the blade. :eek:

A friend of a friend in town did catch a kick-back right to the groin. His reaction was to double over and put his hand right down on the still spinning blade!! That story prompted me to coach myself on proper procedure during the unexpected. Happy to say for my kick-back experience, my first thought was to shut off the saw.

Matt

[Mike Cutler]

Frank.

If I'm just breaking down a bigger piece of material. the widest section is towards the fence. Cutting to size though, the keeper is between the fence and the blade.

Aaron.

It doesn't matter which side of the blade the miter is on, as long as it is aligned to the blade. On my General I have a Jess-Em Mast-R-Slide to the left and an Incra miter to the right. My General has the fence to the right, but my Jet has the fence to the left of the blade.