Time for a Festool Drill.

[Phil Winn]

I think the time has come for me to finally buy a Festool drill.
Does it make sense to just buy the Festool C12-or what about the
TDK 12 CE, TDK 15.3 CE, or the TDD 12 FX ? Whichever drill, I was thinking about buying the "funky" chucks, and if the C12, which battery-the 1.3aH, 2.4 aH, or the big boy 3.0 aH ? This will be my first real cordless tool!
Thanks,
Phil

[Jim Becker]

Do get the chucks...'best thing since sliced bread. I'm very happy with my TDK 12v. The C12 wasn't available when I bought, but that motor technology is very slick. The more aH your batteries...the longer they are going to drive. If you plan on heavy use, the 3.0aH are probably worth the extra cost.

[David Romasco]

Hi Phil,

I'm been using a C-12 (with the funky chucks) for the last two weeks with the 3.0 AH battery. No beefs so far (other than the cost, but there you are). Shot a lot of tapered holes for 2" #12 wood screws in white oak, and I'm still on the first charge (!). LOTS of torque..... Much more than I expected. The form factor takes some getting used to, but I like it. The chucks offer a lot of versatility for cramped areas.

Just can'y figure out where the port for the dust collector is....

[Bob Marino]

Phil,

The C12 is also smaller and lighter than the TDK's. The TDD's may still be available - at least as of a few weeks ago. The chucks do add versatilty and a new one (sort of like a drywall screw gun) will be available next week. Here's a pic of the new chuck from the Australian site.

C 12 DUO
The first cordless drill and plasterboard screwdriver with accurate depth stop

http://www.festool.de/images/web/gruen-2.gif


EC-TEC by Festool, the high-performance concept:
Brushless motor for maximum service life and maximum battery efficiency
Ultra-light with maximum fastening capacity
Impressive ergonomics make your work easier
CENTROTEC tool system: Rapid bit change and true-running
http://www.festool.de/images/bilder/news/news_03_06/c12duo/img_02.jpg
Drilling with the C 12 cordless drill with CENTROTEC: rapid bit changes, true-running bits and reliable transfer of force make work easier.
http://www.festool.de/images/bilder/news/news_03_06/c12duo/img_03.jpg
C 12 as a screwdriver with depth stop: ensures precise screw depth and consistent results when countersinking screws in wood.
http://www.festool.de/images/bilder/news/news_03_06/c12duo/img_04.jpg
Easily remove screws without changing the depth setting: simply reverse direction and turn the "Quick - out" ring. There's not need to remove the tip.



Bob

[Phil Winn]

Bob M,
I s the C12-Duo:
1. Just a "chuck"?
2. A "C12" with a "Duo" chuck?
3. A "C12" with the regular package and a "Duo" chuck?

Pricing?
Thanks,
Phil

[Bob Marino]

Bob M,
I s the C12-Duo:
1. Just a "chuck"?
2. A "C12" with a "Duo" chuck?
3. A "C12" with the regular package and a "Duo" chuck?

Pricing?
Thanks,
Phil

Phil,

I honestly dunno:o :confused: :o. Myguess is that it's the drill and chuck - as it's sold over there. I was using it at IWF and it looks to be a useful accessory. Pricing - same as the other accessory chucks I think -$88.00.

Bob

[Rick Christopherson]

Phil,

I honestly dunno:o :confused: :o. Myguess is that it's the drill and chuck - as it's sold over there. I was using it at IWF and it looks to be a useful accessory. Pricing - same as the other accessory chucks I think -$88.00.

Bob Bob, I also don't know anything about the duo, but from the picture it looks to be a chuck that will fit any of the Festool drills. However, that doesn't mean that it can be ordered separately. Knowing the way Festool works, it will probably be an accessory package that you can add to any of their drills.

[Niels J. Larsen]

Bob, I also don't know anything about the duo, but from the picture it looks to be a chuck that will fit any of the Festool drills. However, that doesn't mean that it can be ordered separately. Knowing the way Festool works, it will probably be an accessory package that you can add to any of their drills.

It's an accessory and can be bought separately - I bought it for my C12 more than 2 months ago when it got available here in Denmark - around the same time I got the new Domino :D Works absolutely perfectly (both of them).

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi folks,

Niels is right. This depth stop (DD-DC) is an attachment that connects to any Festool Fast Fix drill.
The C 12 Duo is a package that includes: C12 cordless drill, depth stop DD-DC, charger LC 45; CENTROTEC chuck, drill bit D4 CENTROTEC, bit holder CENTROTEC, FastFix chuck 13 mm, Bit PH 2, Bit PZ 2; 2 batteries (1.3 Ah NiCd or 3.0 Ah NiMH), Systainer.

@ Phil: The C12 cordless drill NiCd 1.3 Ah Set (http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/product_detail.html?sid=d66a702c2fe70d839d827c93b8 6b1497&pid=PC1213S) or the C12 cordless drill NiCd 2.4 Ah Set (http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/product_detail.html?sid=d66a702c2fe70d839d827c93b8 6b1497&pid=PC1224S) would be my choice.

Regards,

Christian

[Bob Marino]

Bob, I also don't know anything about the duo, but from the picture it looks to be a chuck that will fit any of the Festool drills. However, that doesn't mean that it can be ordered separately. Knowing the way Festool works, it will probably be an accessory package that you can add to any of their drills.


I am sorry I did not make myself clear. I just didn't know what the "DOU" was. The new chuck will be available here (in about a week) as an accessory that can be ordered seperately.

Bob

[JayStPeter]

Hmmmm, that new chuck looks like it will be useful to me soon.

BTW, I have a TDK and like it. Especially the "funky" chucks. Battery life is good enough that the other battery is always charged by the time the current one is dead. I have tried pretty hard to kill them quicker too :D :cool: .

Jay

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that new chuck is interesting...and could be a nice solution for having to comb the shop for the darn drywall driver when only a few screws need to be driven... ;)

[Scott Coffelt]

Your killing me here, still need to order the angle chuck and now a new one coming out. Love my drill.

[Phil Winn]

Which battery holds a charge longer, NiMH and NiCD ? One of the main reasons why I was resistant to buying a battery powered drill was that sometimes I go a few weeks+ without using a drill. Since the Festools come with two batteries, I was thinking about using one of them, and keeping the second one in "my house" uncharged (actually both the shop and the house are heated/cooled to 70 degrees F year round...). And only using this "spare second battery" when the first one no longer holds a charge-and must be "retired". I don't believe there has been a time in the past half century when I have used a hand held corded drill for more than twenty holes or twenty screws at one time; so the chances of using two batteries....well never! Will both the NiMH and NiCD batteries sit around waiting to be used and be able to be charged and then be "off to the races?" Or will one be better than the other?
Thanks,
Phil

[Hugh Jaskok]

Holy cow! How can you guys justify the cost of those things? Are they really that much better than a Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, etc.?

[Terry Flowers]

Phil, I think that there are different NiCad qualities and technologies, some superior to others. The same mzy apply to NiMH. It is probably safe to assume that Festool uses the best of the breed. My own experience with NiCads is that they tend to lose charge unused much quicker than NiMH, although that experience is with 18v B&D NiCads, which is not a heavy line of tools. Those are a real pain, because the charge dissipates very quickly if unused if not on the charger. My DeWalt 14.4v NiMH batteries, on the other hand, hold the charge off the charger much longer, and the run time is much longer. The run time, however, is no doubt also a function of the battery quality as well as type.

I have read that it is not good to leave any battery idle without charging for long periods, as they do have a shelf life. If you have a tool with an advanced charger that maintains a safe charge level, it is probably better to alternate the batteries on the charger and in use than to keep one in reserve unused, or at least uncharged.

I am interested in other opinions, so battery experts please chime in.

Terry

[Chris Padilla]

The eccentirc chuck available with these drills is bordering on utopia for driving screws. Simply amazing and always saving my butt over the conventional centered drill bits. :D

Now if the eccentric chuck could fit on the right-angle chuck!! Whoa!! :eek:

I have the CDD-12 (old one, no longer available I think??) and the TDK-15 or whatever.

I don't quite get what this new chuck does but maybe I should just not get it...and not get it?! hahaha

[Rick Christopherson]

Because this discussion is duplicated on several discussion forums, I am pasting this answer from my other posting.

As I stated earlier (I think) the benefit to NiMH is that they weigh less for the same amount of power. However, that is the limit of their benefit, and that is why they are not as commonly found in high-draw power tools.

NiCd batteries provide a higher rate power output. This means that when you need to drive a really heavy load (like a big screw) the NiCd will power through it better than NiMH.

NiCd also has a lower rate of self-discharge (your original question). This means they will stay charged while on the shelf longer than a NiMH.

I've heard woodworkers question why tool manufacturers don't "step into the 21st Century" and start using NiMH batteries (or other types) more often. This is a short-sighted observation from people that don't understand how the chemical reaction within batteries occurs. These other batteries are GREAT in low-demand products like cameras, but they do not perform as well in the high-demand applications. Newer chemistry is allowing these batteries to become better, but they still won't equal the performance of the NiCd.

[Frank Pellow]

Because this discussion is duplicated on several discussion forums, I am pasting this answer from my other posting.

As I stated earlier (I think) the benefit to NiMH is that they weigh less for the same amount of power. However, that is the limit of their benefit, and that is why they are not as commonly found in high-draw power tools.

NiCd batteries provide a higher rate power output. This means that when you need to drive a really heavy load (like a big screw) the NiCd will power through it better than NiMH.

NiCd also has a lower rate of self-discharge (your original question). This means they will stay charged while on the shelf longer than a NiMH.

I've heard woodworkers question why tool manufacturers don't "step into the 21st Century" and start using NiMH batteries (or other types) more often. This is a short-sighted observation from people that don't understand how the chemical reaction within batteries occurs. These other batteries are GREAT in low-demand products like cameras, but they do not perform as well in the high-demand applications. Newer chemistry is allowing these batteries to become better, but they still won't equal the performance of the NiCd.
Thanks for that (very useful to me) information Rick.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Holy cow! How can you guys justify the cost of those things? Are they really that much better than a Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, etc.?

Hmmm - I don't think you justify the cost of Festool products. You just agree to pay the price in order to get superior tools.