30" or 50" for fence? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

John Miliunas

10-05-2003, 11:33 PM

Joe Tonich

10-05-2003, 11:50 PM

In the process of figuring what I may be getting in terms of a cabinet TS. I'll have a bigger shop and all, but I'm just not sure about it taking up 7' of space from side to side if I opt for the 50" fence. I've currently got the Excalibur fence and can cut a max of 32 or so inches and can't recall having the need to do more than that. Granted, it's been a small shop, so large projects haven't been the norm. Is it really worth gobbling up all the extra real estate? What are you guys using? :cool:

John,

Right now I have a 32" Unifence. There's been a few times I wish I had a 50" fence. If I ever find one on sale when I have the $ I'm gonna jump on it. I'd put my router in the table to justify the space. Can you imagine having a router table that big? :D

Joe

Don Abele

10-05-2003, 11:57 PM

John, I previously had an old Craftsman upgraded with a Vega fence and shop-made table. Thought that 32" would be fine (and it was). Well, when I upgraded to the Jet CS I went with the 7' rails (better deal). First "real" project is rebuilding a miter saw table and I needed to run some 36" wide ply through. Was great not having to cut it by hand. If you got the room, go for it, you won't regret it. BTW, I have my shop in a "small" 2 car (more like 1 1/2) and it does take up a lot of real estate, but it's already proved it's worth. The mobile base helps if it's in the way.

Be well,

Doc

Todd Burch

10-06-2003, 12:15 AM

Powermatic 66, 5HP motor, 52" fence. Arggg Arrgg Argggg. Love it.

:)

Jim Harsha

10-06-2003, 12:55 AM

John, go for the 50. I have a 12x22 shop with Jet cabinet saw w/50" fence squeezed in and have not regretted the choice. If worse comes to worse and you d0ont like the 50 you could always cut it down!. Good luck with the new shop and house.

Bart Leetch

10-06-2003, 12:59 AM

I have a 30" fence on my table-saw & a 117" panel saw. In a small shop I can't have long rails. But with a panel saw I don't need long rails.

It is easier to lift thick heavy wide material about 6" on edge & slide it into a panel saw than it is to put it up on a table saw anyway. If I already had a table or cabinet saw with 30" or 36" capacity & Dado capacity I would shoot for a panel saw. It doesn't take up the floor space & all of the above mentioned reasons.

I just had to go back & insert a gloat I only paid $100 for this DeWalt Panel-saw frame, then installed an old Black & Decker circular saw in it .

Howard Barlow

10-06-2003, 1:03 AM

My shop is only 20x20. I put the 52" Xacta on my Delta contractor. Luv it.

Lloyd Robins

10-06-2003, 1:22 AM

I have a 30" fence on my table-saw & a 117" panel saw. In a small shop I can't have long rails. But with a panel saw I don't need long rails.

It is easier to lift thick heavy wide material about 6" on edge & slide it into a panel saw than it is to put it up on a table saw anyway. If I already had a table or cabinet saw with 30" or 36" capacity & Dado capacity I would shoot for a panel saw. It doesn't take up the floor space & all of the above mentioned reasons.

Thanks for the idea! I have a 1-1/2 small car garage shop and a Jet contractor saw with a 30" Jetfence. I have occasionaly wanted a bigger fence, but not enough to make me expend the money. I also have a rotten back which makes lifting big panels very hard. This might be the answer to my needs. I will start look for a space for a panel saw.

Bill Grumbine

10-06-2003, 8:06 AM

Hi John

Permit me to express an opinion different from the majority here. I have had a 52" unifence on my Delta unisaw for over five years now. There have been numerous times when I used the extra cutting capacity to cut large sheet goods. However, I am rethinking my procedure.

I have a 20' x 30' shop. It is likely that it will never get any bigger, so I need to optimize the room I have. WhileI do cut large sheet goods from time to time, it is a pain in the rump roast to horse them around and through the saw. So, I have begun a long term plan conversion. I say long term because I have no idea how long it is going to take me to actually implement it. :eek:

I just bought a Festool saw with the rails I need to cut any sheet of sheet goods that finds its way into my shop. This will allow me to reduce the footprint of my TS by about 20" or so, leaving me just around 30"+ of cutting capacity on the TS (and still plenty of room for my router table). Opening up that extra 20" of room is going to be a huge advantage for the way my shop is configured, making more room for a spray booth, assembly, a better bench, etc. Who knows when I will actually make time to shorten up my saw though?

Additionally, I implemented the really long term plan last week as well. I began to prepare SWMBO for the advent of a combo machine (perhaps Hammer) to replace the saw, the jointer, the planer, etc. That won't happen for years yet, but the groundwork needs to be laid now.

Good luck with your decision.

Bill

Bob Marino

10-06-2003, 8:26 AM

In the process of figuring what I may be getting in terms of a cabinet TS. I'll have a bigger shop and all, but I'm just not sure about it taking up 7' of space from side to side if I opt for the 50" fence. I've currently got the Excalibur fence and can cut a max of 32 or so inches and can't recall having the need to do more than that. Granted, it's been a small shop, so large projects haven't been the norm. Is it really worth gobbling up all the extra real estate? What are you guys using? :cool:

John,

I have a Dewalt 746 with the 52" rails and work out of a two car garage, which I share with one of the cars, so space is a premium. The saw is on a mobile base. I have never regretted the longer rails, but more recently went another route (Festool ATF saw and rails) and found that to be a better solution, especially for the larger cuts.
But really the beauty of forums such as these, is that you get a whole lot of opinions and options from helpful, friendly and bright folks. The only "tough" part is siftin' and sortin' through the advice and determining what works best for you!

Bob

Lee Schierer

10-06-2003, 8:34 AM

In this case, bigger is better if you have the room for it. I got the 30" fence and sometimes wish I had the larger one. My choice was limited to shop space available. I couldn't get in the shop if I had the 50" fence so I went witht he 30" one.

Bob Lasley

10-06-2003, 9:10 AM

John,

When I bought my cabinet saw, it had 30 inch rails so I ordered 52" rails for it. Decided I would put them on later when I had the shop better organized to make more room. Shop is still not organized and the rails are still in the box and will likely stay in the box. I use a knock-down cutting grid, straight edge and circular saw to cut sheet goods down to size before making final cuts on the table saw. Much easier and safer for this old cripple to handle sheet goods this way. I haven't needed the long rails. The other down side to long rails is that the extension table becomes a catchall and has to be cleaned off when you do need it! (Note: This does not apply in T. Hatfield's shop!) All that being said, it you have the room, what the hay, go for it.

Bob

Jim Becker

10-06-2003, 9:11 AM

John, I'm glad I have the 50" fence system. It lets me get the fence out of the way when I'm crosscutting (which I do on the table saw rather than the CMS, except for rough cuts when breaking down lumber for milling). I also find that the extra work surface comes in handy from time to time on large projects.

That being said, Bart's solution is sweet...if only the Festool saw could be put on that panel system!! :D

JayStPeter

10-06-2003, 9:41 AM

I like the 50" for 2 reasons. First, you can hack sheet goods down pretty well. Second, you can put stuff there while working. Cabinet saws vibrate so little that things don't vibrate off. I use a rolling cart and the extension wing when I'm working multiple pieces. Put blanks on cart, perform operation, put on extension. Plus, I almost always have a push stick lying over there when I need it.

Dave Avery

10-06-2003, 11:15 AM

John,

I'm in the same situation as Bob Marino (DW746, 50"), without the benefit of the Festool. I couldn't convince the money woman that the Festool was a necessity....... That said, like Bill Grumbine, I find myself avoiding the schlepping of 4X8 material like the proverbial plague. I have 2 main alternatives. First and preferred, many suppliers of sheet goods have panel saws that cut accurately and they'll make cuts for little or no charge. The backup plan is a cordless circular saw with a straight edge to get close, then finish on the TS.

Long winded way of saying that if you have the space, an extra $200, and don't mind heavy sheetgoods, go for the long rails. Otherwise, using a supplier, a panel saw, or a circular saw (Festool would be best) will save you money (in some cases) and space. Dave

Ted Shrader

10-06-2003, 11:21 AM

John -

Built a 50" fence system for a contractors saw. Sold that and bought a PM66 w/ long rails. Glad to have them in both cases.

Ted

John Miliunas

10-06-2003, 11:59 AM

Hey guys. Thanks much for the informative and diverse replies. Both sides have very valid reasoning. On the 30" side, I see several advantages: 1) Less $$. 2) Takes less real estate. 3) Less of a "garbage collector" and I already have a solid 4x8 table for setups, as well as a couple smaller setup tables. (read that as: Already enough area to collect garbage! :rolleyes: ) 4) I too, don't cherish the thought of "tossing" 1/2 or 3/4" sheets around. I've always cut them to rough dimension and then do the final cut on the TS.

On the 50" side: 1) The capacity is there if I need it. 2) I use the Excalibur overarm guard/DC and, with the main overhead arm being further back, I could easier utilize jigs (box joints, splines for corners, etc..)

Hmmmm....Almost looks as though my question may have been answered! I still have some time before I place an order, so me thinks I'll have to deliberate it for a bit longer, but I'm leaning toward the 30"-er, at this point. Thanks again for all your valuable input! :cool:

Ed Falis

10-06-2003, 1:00 PM

... I use a knock-down cutting grid, straight edge and circular saw to cut sheet goods down to size before making final cuts on the table saw. ...
Bob

Bob,

What does that grid look like?

Thanks,

- Ed

ps I have the 50" rails and have no regrets. But I always look for an easier way to do things.

Dan Stuewe

10-06-2003, 2:52 PM

On the 50" side: 1) The capacity is there if I need it. 2) I use the Excalibur overarm guard/DC and, with the main overhead arm being further back, I could easier utilize jigs (box joints, splines for corners, etc..)

John,

I don't understand how the rail length effects the use of your Excalibur when using jigs. I didn't think the Excalibur (or any blade guard for that matter) could even be used with the jigs you mentioned. So isn't the blade guard just moved out of the way?

(read on for insight into the thinking of Dan Stuewe...)

Oh... Maybe the Excalibur telescopes away from the blade, so the shorter rails would mean it can't move as far away? Is that it? Please help me sleep tonight.

On another note, is it really $200 more for the longer rails? Seems to me that's kinda steep. Maybe the long rails with table is $200 more than 30" rails without the table?

Steven Wilson

10-06-2003, 2:57 PM

I had a Jet contractor saw with a 30" fence and one of the reasons I upgraded the saw was the lack of fence (too many times I needed more than 30". I first thought that a 7' span would be too much too. But I then realized that a 30" fence saw still takes up 5' and an extra 2' wasn't all that much. Anyhow, I upgraded to a Powermatic 66 w/ 50" fence. If/when I upgrade to a Felder/Minimax combo machine I'll probably move back down to a 30" capacity because the slider will handle what the 50" fence gives you.

John Miliunas

10-06-2003, 3:03 PM

John,
(read on for insight into the thinking of Dan Stuewe...)

Oh... Maybe the Excalibur telescopes away from the blade, so the shorter rails would mean it can't move as far away? Is that it? Please help me sleep tonight.

On another note, is it really $200 more for the longer rails? Seems to me that's kinda steep. Maybe the long rails with table is $200 more than 30" rails without the table?

Your "insight" is correct. The main part of the tube comes from the extension side of the table, then the rest of it telescopes out from there. On my current 30" (34" actual, I think), it allows me to just telescope it back in enough for easy blade changes and smaller profile jigs. Taking that same main tube and having it start further to the right of the blade, as on a 50" fence, would get it completely out of the way when working with just about any height/width jigs at the blade.

I believe the $200.00 mark is ballpark, though I have seen it right about there when going from a 30" to 50" Powermatic.

As a sidenote, I just spoke to Curt down at Wilke Machinery about their Bridgewood 10LTS. One heckuva' unit and it seems that the consensus "out on the street" is pretty much the same. Reasonable shipping, too. I'm pretty well set, at this point, that once the house deal is closed, I'll be on the phone with him to order one up! It will be, however, the 50" fence. (It doesn't look like they offer the 30" and, if need be, I can always cut it down.) :cool:

Bob Lasley

10-06-2003, 3:08 PM

Bob,

What does that grid look like?

Thanks,

- Ed

ps I have the 50" rails and have no regrets. But I always look for an easier way to do things.

Ed,

It is the one from Nick Engler's book, "Making Jigs and Fixtures". Basically, a couple of knockdown sawhorses with slots cut in the rails for three 2x4's to lay in that are flush with the top of rails. I use 8 foot 2x4's with full sheets and 4 footers with baltic birch. Works well and doesn't take up much room when stored. Hopefully, I will be using this week, if so I'll take and post a pic if you want.

Bob

Jim Becker

10-06-2003, 5:05 PM

As a sidenote, I just spoke to Curt down at Wilke Machinery about their Bridgewood 10LTS. One heckuva' unit and it seems that the consensus "out on the street" is pretty much the same. Reasonable shipping, too. I'm pretty well set, at this point, that once the house deal is closed, I'll be on the phone with him to order one up! It will be, however, the 50" fence. (It doesn't look like they offer the 30" and, if need be, I can always cut it down.)

Good choice. Nice saw. Not too many places actually stock the saws with the 30" fence systems; Grizzly being the exception. And yes, you could always cut it down, but I doubt you will given the Excalibur will be much, much more enjoyable with the ability to slide the guard head farther out of the way. Honestly, I don't use the guard for a lot of cross cutting operations for visibility reasons; not that I recommend the practice.