Anybody know what this moulding planes purpose was ?

[Jake Darvall]

Hello, I'm bit of a moulding plane nut. Which means, I should probably go and buy a book on it....

but till then I was hoping someone could enlighten me on this moulding plane I picked up at the markets.

I sharpened it and ripped out its profile on a bit of scrap.

I know it looks to be a pretty simple design, and what it was used for is probably staring me in the face....but its got me scratching my head a little.

I'm thinking, its not a regular bead plane, cause its got a flat extending from the edge to the start of the bead.

...thinking, it could be for beaded T&G joints for wall paneling or the like, but then the quirk seems too wide. ...and the tongue bit too.

So, where was this profile used......and ultimately how can I use it ! ,, if it all.

Appreciate any thoughts. Ta.

[harry strasil]

The bead looks similar to the bead on some wainscoting which was on the groove side.

And the corners of the framing timbers in old churches etc, were sometimes beaded or chamfered for looks and also to remove any sharp corners that would catch fire easily if a fire occured.

[Jake Darvall]

The bead looks similar to the bead on some wainscoting which was on the groove side.

And the corners of the framing timbers in old churches etc, were sometimes beaded or chamfered for looks and also to remove any sharp corners that would catch fire easily if a fire occured.

Ta Harry.....but whats 'wainscoting' ? ..... a silly question I suppose.

I don't go to church very often either...... take your word for it. :D

Like to try and use it somehow in a pleasing way oneday..... visualising exactly how seems to be the hard part right now.

Anyway, thanks mate.

[Steve Wargo]

Jake,
It's called an astragal. It is nothing more than a raised bead offset from the edge. They are somewhat harder to find than many simple profiles, and quite versatile. Congrats and good find.

[Jake Darvall]

Ta Steve, Astragal..........( astra- gal <- yes ?... like shes my 'gal' ) I write that on the plane.

Have you ever had any use for one ?

Trying to work out a pleasing way of using. Like to see a picture of a piece of furniture where its been used I suppose .

You handy with a moulding plane I guess ? seem to be few and far between Steve.

[Steve Wargo]

Jake,

I have 4 or 5 of them. More usefull to cabinetmakers in the smaller sizes. I've used one many time, there is a picture in this link of a use to decorate the edge of a shelf. The picture is at the bottom of the first page, not the first post.

astragal usage. (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18689)

[Frank Desaulniers]

Up here it's also used in carpentry to cover the gap between two doors or windows, as well as junctions and seams between panels or different materials (wood-plaster for ex.). It's quite a versatile moulding.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hey Jake--I cannot recommend John Whelan's book The Wooden Plane, Its history, Form, and Function enough. In fact, I have your addy--be watching your mail [well, wait a few weeks then start watching <g>].

It would be enough reading and reference material to make you want to hunt down a lot of profiles--but know what they are and how they are used.

The astragal and soft astragal I have used for edging, like Steve did on that excellent bow-front cabinet's shelving. As well, a double astragal was often used, but I haven't hunted down a small enough one for the size of cabinets I make and instead cheated and used a side bead on each front edge to simulate it--the quirk ends up being larger than a true double astragal. So one day I'll probably just make one.

Take care, Mike

[Steve Wargo]

I will echo the importance of the Whelan book. If you're looking to get into moulding planes I think that is necessary to understand what you're buying. Just remember... while complex moulders are often more expensive, and more collectible, they are much, and I mean much, harder to sharpen. I try to keep it simple and use sidebeads, center beads, astragals, and reeding planes when I can. They are much easier to sharpen than a complex moulder. Congrats on the nice plane. You can use turner's tape and a thin scrap of wood on the fence of the plane to center it if you ever need to.

[Jake Darvall]

Thanks Mike...... but what do you mean by 'addy' and '<g>'....not sure what you mean.

double astragal ! .....I'll definetly have to get that book. :D

****

Thanks Frank....I haven't notice the astragal used around here yet. I'll have to look harder.

****

Thankyou too Steve.... pictures always clears it for me. So, with that shelf where you used the astragal, you mustn't have employed the depth stop ,,yes ? ....just did it by eye....planed to a line each end of the stock maybe ?

Lovely cabinet by the way. Better than I've ever done.

I took some photos today of some of my moulding planes and scribbled all over them with a paint program to try and make sense. Love to hear your thoughts, ideas. Maybe confirm some of my thoughts.

Some of the planes I have, I haven't even bothered learning their real names. A bit embarrising when someone asks me a question I'd say. About time I learn their names.

Ta.

[Jake Darvall]

another....

goodnight. I gotta sleep.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Addy = Address
<g> = grin

The rest means a copy of the book is on its way to you...Take care, Mike

[Jake Darvall]

Addy = Address
<g> = grin

The rest means a copy of the book is on its way to you...Take care, Mike


Thanks Mike. very generous. Please don't hesitate should you think of a way I can return the favour.
:)

[Mike Wenzloff]

Just continue your wonderful sharing spirit, Jake.

This was an extra copy, and is but a small token of appreciation. I have not thought of a better person to forward it to.

Take care, Mike

[Jake Darvall]

Just continue your wonderful sharing spirit, Jake.

Take care, Mike

ok and thanks. But, I think I rave a bit too much though. Ask too many questions maybe. I've noticed things can go a little quiet after I throw up pictures. :o
Anyway, thanks again for the book. Looking forward to it. Are there any planes or a particular tool you'd like to have, but yet find ? .... I could keep an eye out for you. I'm an early bird at markets you see. Just yell eh.

There seems to be more people into moulding planes here than I've noticed in other forums. Looking forward to seeing more pieces made with them, like that one of Steve's. I have much to learn here I think.

Guessing, there's more stanley 55 fans about here too ?..... Apparently we just use them as doorstops in Australia. :D Generally, things tend to go quiet as well when I mention the name......I'm always looking for a good chin wag you see.

Have a good week Mike.

[Mike Wenzloff]

ok and thanks. But, I think I rave a bit too much though. Ask too many questions maybe. I've noticed things can go a little quiet after I throw up pictures.
Nah, you don't rave a bit much Jake. Just that sometimes the questions actually take thinking--something I'm not noted for!

Identifying moldings is a funny thing. Sometimes easy, sometimes not. Often, it is the ones which seem a combination of shapes which cause naming problems. I typically use Whelan. A profile is named--or the order of elements named--beginning furthest from the edge of the board and ending at the board's edge.

I've only used T&G planes a little. Smaller than you have here for making some cabinet backs. Mostly shiplap them and add a bead.

The 'Sash' picture...#2 & 4 are reverse ogees, #1 & 3 are ovolos. What is kinda neat for me is that many of these profiles, though named the same, evolve over time. This evolution is not a total change, just sometimes the profiles will be more pronounced in shape than other periods. So for instance ogees and reverse ogees in an early period may be more relaxed than in later ones, or vise versa--I would have to look it up to see which is in general true.

The one you identify as a hollow--is a cove.

The one with the side bead on the left, the other two are possibly quirk-ogee-bead. At least that's how I would identify the center.

The H&R question--yes, hollows and rounds are named for the shape of their respective soles, not the profiles they produce, which are kind the opposite. Strange as other moldings are named according to the profile left on the wood.

The profile in post #11...this one would be something like a soft cove-ovolo-fillet. But the transition between the two seems rounded on the iron, more so than what I can see in the picture, so that would be a cove-reverse ogee-fillet.

Fun, eh?

Really, the names are simply the parts, the elements, of the profiles. These are all relatively simple moldings. They get complex enough one needs to use abbreviations instead of full names...

Take care, Mike

[Jake Darvall]

Thanks Mike. :)


A profile is named--or the order of elements named--beginning furthest from the edge of the board and ending at the board's edge....

definetly sounds like a general rule worth remembering.



I've only used T&G planes a little. Smaller than you have here for making some cabinet backs. Mostly shiplap them and add a bead.

Surprised that you can get smaller than that. Have to keep an eye out for one of those.



The 'Sash' picture...#2 & 4 are reverse ogees, #1 & 3 are ovolos. What is kinda neat for me is that many of these profiles, though named the same, evolve over time. This evolution is not a total change, just sometimes the profiles will be more pronounced in shape than other periods. So for instance ogees and reverse ogees in an early period may be more relaxed than in later ones, or vise versa--I would have to look it up to see which is in general true.

So, what I've been calling Lambstongues are actually reverse ogees....and it is interesting how they change like that. Might mean you can identify their age that way ?



The one you identify as a hollow--is a cove.

Ta.



The one with the side bead on the left, the other two are possibly quirk-ogee-bead. At least that's how I would identify the center.

if you say so. ;) .



The H&R question--yes, hollows and rounds are named for the shape of their respective soles, not the profiles they produce, which are kind the opposite. Strange as other moldings are named according to the profile left on the wood.

Ta. Glad you confirmed that. I thought it was odd too.



The profile in post #11...this one would be something like a soft cove-ovolo-fillet. But the transition between the two seems rounded on the iron, more so than what I can see in the picture, so that would be a cove-reverse ogee-fillet.

Fun, eh?

Sorry I asked now ;) ...no. Cove first, then ogee at the edge.....so if there was no fillet right on the edge, it be just a 'cove- reverse ogee' ?..:confused: ...sorry mate. Probably should shut up now. :D

Thanks for the info Mike. :)

[Jake Darvall]

I'll be a bit cheeky and throw up a couple more.

The first two pictures is of a plane I've yet to clean up. Maybe get some thoughts on that....

find it interesting trying to visualise the process on how it was used. Maybe with a fence afixed to your work ?