Bandsaw Purchase

[John Bailey]

Since I started building my shop two years ago, I've been reading everything I can about bandsaws. I decided early on I would not be buying a tablesaw, and so I wanted to get the best bandsaw I could afford. Everytime I was close to buying, something happened that prevented me from making the purchase. That's the downside. The upside is that I've had two years to save and I now will be able to afford what I want. So, what do I want? I dunno!

So, I'll present the question here, the best woodworking site around, to help me make the decision. The following are my present thoughts on the my choices up to now. They are in order of my preference, at least for now, with a brief remark.

1. Bridgewood PBS 440 - Seems to be in the same league as the Laguna 16HD and MiniMax MM16, but a bit bigger and heavier.

2. MiniMax MM16 - Everyone raves about this saw.

3. Rockwell 28-350(Used) - 20" saw that would work well for me and buying used wood fit my philosophy. May be too big for my shop.

4. Laguna 16HD - Again, everybody raves about this saw. This is the only saw that I've had a chance to use. I would be very happy with it, I'm sure, but I'm not sure I like the guides.

5. Grizzly GO566 - A lot of saw for the money. Again, may be too big for my shop.

6. Crescent 26" (used) - I know, not very practical, but if I found one that ran smooth and was in great shape, I might listen to my heart instead of my head.

I'm particularly interested in ease of blade change, ease of adjusting the blade guides and how close the bottom guides are to the table.

I have a small (20x20) stand alone shop. I plan on making a number of boats, dulcimers and kayak paddles along with the normal woodworking projects like an occasional furniture project, cutting boards and maybe a toy or two for grand kids, if my sons ever figure out how to settle down.

I'm going to have a couple of weeks off in December. I'm going to hold off until then and make a road trip to get the bandsaw. I like to drive, see places I've not been and I think it will be great.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, John

[Brian Hale]

PBS 440 get my vote and i own a MM-16.

Brian :)

[John Bailey]

PBS 440 get my vote and i own a MM-16.

Brian :)

Can't leave it at that Brian, how come you got the MM16? As I recall you're pretty close to Wilke's and I think I remember you talking about getting 440. Why do you think the PBS 440 is the better machine?

John

[Ron Blaise]

sized shop you have and find that my 18" Rikon fits very well. Of course I have it mounted to a very sturdy mobil stand. A band-saw has a very small footprint compared to most other large tools and can be used right up against one of your walls. I don't think you will have much of a space problem. Oh, rule of thumb, buy the best one you can afford. That way you won't be wanting to upgrade in the future.
Hope that helps.

[Bob Noles]

John,

What you plan on using this beast for? Do you really need the biggest and best or just want it because you can have it? :) Unless you plan on some heavy duty re-sawing in kingsize style, you may want to stay mid range and size and have some $ left for other toys.... er I mean tools.:D

[Dave Malen]

I have a laguna 14se. I really like the ceramic guides. They give great support to the blade. Some people complain that they are finiky to set up. However once you get accustomed to them their not difficult at all.

Dave

[rick fulton]

6. Crescent 26" (used) - I know, not very practical, but if I found one that ran smooth and was in great shape, I might listen to my heart instead of my head.


John -

How does 36" sound?
http://www.irsauctions.com/index_search_results.asp?ind=50

http://www.irsauctions.com/auctions/00009251/bigpicts/48239B.jpg

Grass Lake, MI
Includes 5 blades.
Current bid - $25, closes in 3 days.
Many more photos on web site.
Looks like it still runs.

How high is your ceiling?
rick

[Dave Mapes]

John

You might want to take a look at the Grizzly 514X over the 566. I was looking at the 566 until the 514X came out felt the 514X was a better value for the money. Main difference that I could tell was resaw fence included, 12" resaw vs 14" and a little smaller table but it used the same motor (3HP).

IMO: If the resaw height is of concern then I would recommend the MM16 over the laguna. I have heard of too many people that have had service problems with laguna and would stay away them. (Their are people who have had great experince but I have heard enought to be gun shy.)

Dave

[John Bailey]

John,

What you plan on using this beast for? Do you really need the biggest and best or just want it because you can have it? :) Unless you plan on some heavy duty re-sawing in kingsize style, you may want to stay mid range and size and have some $ left for other toys.... er I mean tools.:D

Bob,

Some of the work I'm planning on when boatbuilding will take a little more size than the common 14" bandsaw. I've determined that a 16" is the smallest I want to go. For some of the keels and deadwood I'll be working on, even the 16" may be on the small size.

Rick,

My ceiling hieght is 8'3", but the real problem is the floor. My floor is built on 2x6's at 18" centers. Any machine over 1500 lbs. is gonna be too heavy. I bet that monster is well over that.

Dave,

I know both the Grizzly 566 and 514X have the same horsepower rating, the 566 blade speed is listed at 4600 FPM to the 514X's 3500. Also, I plan on putting some pretty heavy timbers through the machine and I think the 150-200 lb. difference will work out better for me.

Thanks, John

[Bruce Page]

John, I have been very happy with my MM16. It has incredible power for resawing. The 440 also looks like a very nice machine.

[Doug Mason]

What about the Felder bandsaws? I never hear anything about these!

[Steven Evans]

I have a MM20 and love it. I had a chance to check out several brands in Vegas last year. I love it. MM's higher end BS are made by Centuro and I have been told they are the best. The Felder rep was more interested in comparing combo machine and did not have much to say about there BS expect to say they were good. If you are going to spend the coin on one, I would go with the MM. Oh yeah I did.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ok folks I will do my best to give you info on the bandsaws I know about. Brief bandsaw background from me: I owned a Jet 14", sold it....bought an Agazzani B-24 (4.8hp 1ph), sold it....bought a MiniMax MM24 (7.5hp 3ph) Never realized how usefull a bandsaw was until I got my B24. Now that I have my MM24 I use it quite regularly to resaw thicker boards instead of planing 'till the cows come home and do A LOT of rough ripping on it. I can honestly say it is one of the most used machines in my shop.

Bandsaw history (that I know of). ACM in Italy makes bandsaws for many companies in addition for temselves under the Star line (I beleive). I also believe they make to different lines a lighter duty saw and a heavier duty one. Lighter are rebadged and sold by Laguna and Felder (green line). Heavier are rebadged and sold by Bridgewood/Wilke and Felder(blue line).

Agazzani is a separate company all togehter. Here in the states you can purchase them from Adwood (North Carolina?) and Eagle Tools (California). While the Agazzani is not as "massively" built as the ACM saw it has many refinements. Solid vulcanized tires spun on a lathe at the factory, crowned. Great idea bu what happens if you need to replace them? They also look a little prettier and have a nice fence. I was told by Eagle tools the B20 on up were heavier duty machines.

Centauro (Minimax MM line) also an independent company that makes saws for themselves and of coarse for MM. These saws are just plain tanks. Massive everywhere. I measured the steel thickness when I had both the B24 and a MM in my shop...the MM was thicker. I also remember the castings on the table being thicker on the MM. I have also gotten very fond of the table tilting feature on the MM. It is a double, very thick steel plate system that remains rigid (no lateral play) that when released the table tilts very easily, remains stable and thus easy to reach the desired angle. By comparison the Agazzani I had used a camshaft type lever tightening system. Once released, the table was loose in all directions and was not limited to travel along its trunion only. I found this annoying.

Tires: Acm - has a glued on flat band - it is not one band but rather a "strip" that is glue on (at least that is how it was when I was looking). Agazzani - like I stated before is a solid rubber tire, crowned, spun on a lathe, and only can be installed at the factory (very nice tire though and theorectically perfectly round and balanced), Centauro - a true rubber "band" like tire, flat, with a ridge on the back side. To install/replace you simply slip/stretch the new tire on the wheel where it fits into a corresponding ridge in the cast wheel.

Fence: both ACM and Agazzani offer the aluminum fence that is "flippable" to a high and low position. I feel the Agazzani fence in those regards is the best. The MM fence is straight cast iron. I thought it would be limiting but it also allows the most flexibility. I have now created different fence "faces" and can accomodate ripping with the blade guides very low to a very high setting of the guides to do very tall resawing. I was very surprised as I love the Agazzani fence but with the added fence "faces" I have now the cast iron MM fence is much more versatile.

Performance: All of the saws work quite well from what I can tell. From my own use though I can say the MM24 I have does cut better than the Agazzani B24 I had. Maybe it is due to the much bigger 3ph motor but I also believe it has to do with the bigger more massive saw & thus more rigid machine. I have had not hand any direct firsthand experience with ACM saws.

Customer support: MM hands down the best service I have recieved from any company on any product I ever bought. Eagle Tools (where I got my Agazzani) also very good service...no complaints what so ever. Laguna...never directly bought anything from them but in my dealings with them I always felt like the vultures were circling overhead. There are plenty of "horror stories" on customer service issues with Laguna but also good ones on the net. If you search for MM or Eagle Tools you will only find good service issues. I have never heard of any bad stories from Bridgewood/Wilke either. F...l...d..r..(that green company) ....(can not even say that word) well I will let you be the judge of that.

Each company that "imports" their saws also asks for their own modifications. Some like Bridgewood/Wilke add their own motor....so does Laguna (I think). MM has their own design standards as saws made for the American market (again I think so) as we LOVE big resaw here and shiny cast iron tables (which I hate by the way).

All in all everyone of these Italian made bandsaws are quite good. There more Italian manufacturers out there like Meber and others.... but I think the three above are the major ones?? Some of the saws use similair stuff like blade guides and some companies use their own special stuff but since the saws are "similar" most things are interchangeable between all saws (like the Laguna ceramic guides). My suggestion is buy the biggest most heaviest duty saw you can plus look at the companies customer service history as these saws are not cheap, as compared to the normal 14"ers most hobbiests have, so you want to know that there is someone on the other side of the phone there to help you. I definately have one specific company in mind here.....so go ahead I dare you to ask me which one I recommend ;)

[John Bailey]

Paul,

Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise. I learned a lot. My guess is that you might look at my list and switch #1 and #2 around. That being said, you did a good job of saying most of the saws I'm considering are good saws. Again, Thanks.

John

[Bartee Lamar]

I just visited IWF yesterday and got to see the Laguna HD16 I purchased as a show delivery special.

WOW.... They were slicing off a 12" block 1/16" at a time. With the carbide blade the surface was very smooth. The saw was absolutely able to handle without thinking about slowing down.

It comes with 4 1/2 hp baldor motor. cuts 16" wide and 16" throat.

I am absolutely pleased with my decision

[Brian Hale]

Can't leave it at that Brian, how come you got the MM16? As I recall you're pretty close to Wilke's and I think I remember you talking about getting 440. Why do you think the PBS 440 is the better machine?

John

You're right John but it was getting late (alarm clock goes off at 3am :( ) I got the MM as a show model with a Lennox Trimaster for $2000, just less than the Bridgewood would have cost me.

I've used both the MM16 and the PBS 440. The PBS "feels" and sounds more refined to me. (just my opinion) Both saws will eat hardwoods with vigor!

The PBS blade brake pedal is positioned for better/more comfortable access. The MM brake sticks out the front of the saw and it's easy for your foot to slide off it easier when your trying to stop the blade.

The start button is easier to use on the PBS. The MM button is small and recessed behind some clear rubber.

Wilke does an inspection and setup and test run under power before they ship it to make sure everything is as it should be when you recieve it.

Note how the fence attaches on the MM. The bar that the fence is bolted to is short. As soon as you loosen it to adjust it you'll find it's real easy to tilit the fence. Also, I find myself always checking it to make sure the fence hasn't been tilted from 90 degees during use. The PBS fence is captured on a round steel bar, is much more secure and slides a lot eaiser.

The power wire on the MM originates inside the frame of the saw while the PBS comes out of a junction box. If you wish to hard wire the MM you'll need to add a junction box and attach it to the saw frame.

Dust collection on the PBS is at the lower back of the saw. The hook up on the MM is above the foot brake which forces the DC hose out the side of the saw, right where you walk. Also, I always get a large pile of dust built up inside my MM cabinet right where the PBS DC port is located.

USA motors on PBS.

The MM frame may be a tad thicker than the PBS but the design of the PBS frame makes for a stiffer saw.

According to Curt Wilke, the PBS is made by ACM (Itilian) as is the Laguna. The Laguna is based on a lighter duty Star frame and the PBS is based on the heavy BS frame. He's also fond of saying the PBS showed the least amount of deflection of all the saws in a FWW test.

I'm pleased with how my MM16 performs and they even sent me a spare switch because of all the problems they were having with them. No complaints with MM customer service.

I'll keep my MM16 but if i was offered and even trade, i'd take the PBS.

Brian :)

[Chris Padilla]

MM20 graces my shop...got it used from a guy wanting to upgrade to the MM24! It is a brute and I love it! I'm finding more and more used for it and finding the TS to be in the way lately....

[John Bailey]

Brian,

Thanks for the update. It sounds as though either saw would be great, but it's good to consider those "little things" that might make a difference. My choice may well come down to whatever kind of "deal" I can get.

John

[Brian Hale]

The PBS 440 is on sale at $200 cheaper than the MM16 (before shipping)

Brian :)

[John Bailey]

Brian,

Where'd you see that price. I saw the MM16 at $2300 and the PBS at $2195.

John

[Brian Hale]

From the MM website
http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm16.html

and the Wilke website
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1156526368167816&id1=2&--woSECTIONSdatarq=2&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2093

[Jim Becker]

There is a "show special" on the MM right now due to IWF...you'll have to call them as I already threw out the flyer. But the price is very competitive with the BW and includes several blades and accessories. Don't delay...the show is almost over... ;)

[Pete Bradley]

I've got a Delta 28-350 (circa 1949). I like it a great deal. Blade speed is 4500 fpm so it zips through cuts very nicely. It's been good for precision cuts such as cabriole legs, and I've resawed 13" green logs, though this clearly at the limit of its capabilities. The big table is great. It does a decent job on resaw, though there are probably better ones out there. The machine takes up some room but it doesn't feel too big. I'd say the only thing it's not great at is running wide bands, although this may be a function of the tension spring that I have.
If buying used, be aware that the pulleys are a nonstandard size and some models of blade guide are very difficult to find.


http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/2233-C.JPG

And best of all, it's old iron!!

Pete

[Joe Mioux]

There is a "show special" on the MM right now due to IWF...you'll have to call them as I already threw out the flyer. But the price is very competitive with the BW and includes several blades and accessories. Don't delay...the show is almost over... ;)

Show special is $2095, plus shipping. Blades, shipping, mobility kit brings the price in at around $2400-2500.

Note Edit: I just checked the flyer, It is $2095 which includes, blades,miter gauge and mobility kit. Shipping to me and a Lenox blade brought my cost up to $24XX something.

[John Bailey]

Jim,

Thanks - good info, but I don't think I'm ready to pull the trigger. I think I like the hunt too much.

Pete,

I've seen pictures plenty of times. It's been on my short list. I've put a couple of bids on a few, but they've always gone unsold because the starting price was more than most would cough up. Plus, most have been far away.

Thanks guys,

John