Health Insurance

[Ed Breen]

Hi All,
I,ve read some threads on health insurance here at SMC. I have a problem, our health costs went up 30% last year and will probably go up again this year. We are a small companby but we spend over 300,000 per year on health costs and its eating our lunch. I don't want to call a broker at this point as I'm just starting to study the problem. But I seem to remember that several of you have a sort of banked set up where there is a set amount set aside to be used per employee. This might be a viable outlet for us, but I would welcome any feedback.
Thanks for any iunput.
Ed
P.S. Am I talking about an HSA???

[Jim Becker]

Oh, I can't wait to see Dennis' response to this one!

----
A number of companies have gone to high-deductable plus savings plans to reduce health care costs for the company. In theory, this is supposed to put more careful decision making on the consumer since they are, in effect, footing a much, much larger percentage of their health care costs. I suspect that it's also causing some to forgo needed treatments and preventative care that they might get without a thought with a PPO or HMO or even a traditional indemnity plan due to cost. There may be a back-end cost to the company for that in increased absence due to less preventative care. IMHO and speculation, of course...

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Ed,
First off, a warning: I'm probably not providing a beneficial response to your question. But I feel the need to commiserate with you.

My family's health insurance premium has increased between 20 to 25% each year for the last 7 years ever since we started carrying our own policies. We are now at a point such that we cannot pay the higher premiums, so we had to reduce the coverage.

We now have a $10K deductible and a 50% copay for another $5K out of pocket before we are fully covered. Needless to say, this is a catastrophic plan. It does not cover prescriptions, and there is no incentive for routine medical care from annual checkups to colonoscopies or nuclear heart stress tests.

A new coverage plan has been made available this year that lowers the bar further to the point of non-coverage. The new plan does not cover some of the common illnesses or common medical services. It also identifies your insurance premium by your age, gender and specific location within my State.

I believe the system has already collapsed. It' now just a matter of how far it rolls down the hill.

-Jeff

[Joe Pelonio]

What you asked about does sound like a HSA or MSA. All I know on them is that you still would need a low cost high deductible plan for use for catastrophic medical needs. Actually these days that's one day at the hospital, would wipe out a HSA fast.

In our state the insurance commission made rules that kept people from being denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, and many companies stopped insuring here. Then they came up with a state health plan that
is available at rates basd on "income bands", where for example, a family
of 3 with monthly income $3,000 oldest person age 32 is $75.99-$104.44/mo depending which of 3 plans they choose. The two least expensive are HMOs. In order to get any providers thay had to add back a 90 day waiting period for pre-existing conditions, but it excludes maternity and prescription drugs. Then it's a year wait for organ transplants, and there's a statewide limit on how many people can get it.

Anyway, when I had employees here I had one full time with no medical, and had her enroll in it and then paid her the premium amount as a monthly bonus. That was because no one offered medical for a business with one employee.

Except for a couple of years we've always had medical through my wife's employer. When we paid our own back in the late '90s it was $700/mo.

She's now working at a school and the plan is good but they paying the same amount as the premiums shoot up so our contribution goes way up.
It's about 400/mo. now for the 4 of us.

[Aaron Beaver]

----
A number of companies have gone to high-deductable plus savings plans to reduce health care costs for the company. In theory, this is supposed to put more careful decision making on the consumer since they are, in effect, footing a much, much larger percentage of their health care costs. I suspect that it's also causing some to forgo needed treatments and preventative care that they might get without a thought with a PPO or HMO or even a traditional indemnity plan due to cost. There may be a back-end cost to the company for that in increased absence due to less preventative care. IMHO and speculation, of course...

Our company just switched to what Jim is describing this August. There is a certain limit that the employee has to pay then after that its all covered. The company can (doesn't have to) contribute to a "savings" health account where you can use that as part of what you have reach before its all covered.

Example: The limit is $2000: I would have to pay $2000 in medical bills, then anything after that would be covered. Now if the company puts in $1000 in my health savings I can use that, so in essence I only have to pay $1000 out of pocket before any bills after are covered. There are different amounts you have to pay for single, married, dependents, etc.

Like Jim stated, its supposed to get you to "shop around" and ask about prices for procedures. One downside is if the company has a bad year they DO NOT have to put anything in your health savings for the next year.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Oh, I can't wait to see Dennis' response to this one!


Me too.. we work in the same business unit, different teams though.

Ed, what you said is great for the employers but sucks for the employees. If you are in a business which has a lot of job opportunities be prepared to loose some people. We in the IT industry are at the mercy of employers.

[Cecil Arnold]

I can't contribute, as I have a retiree plan that only costs about $125 mo. and has decent coverage. However--I would accept bets on how long this thread lasts before it gets heated and a mod has to lock it.

[Dennis Peacock]

Well.....All I'm gonna say here?

I you want to save the company big money and DRAIN every employee's pocket you have employeed.....Then just go right ahead with the HSA and high deductible plan you are talking about. You're employee's will be very quickly experience an overall pay reduction of about $400 per month and a deductible that they have to meet or just over $3K......

Instead of stabbing your employee's in the pocket? Why not cut everybody's pay by $7K per year and use the savings in company "overhead" called "payroll expenses" and fund the employee's a nice health plan, dental plan, and eye care plan.????

My blood pressure is up 50 points just "reading" about this. I went to the doctor today....Total to leave the office: $563.27......

I better hush before I get in trouble. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ed Breen]

Dennis, jim et al.
Thanks for your timely reactions, thats just what I was looking for. At this point, at $549 per employee per monbth we're spemding about 7k per year on each employee, not counting life insurance dental, and short term disability. By the way, we are a small non profit. I'm at a crossroads, in between a rock and a hard place. We are probably only one of four agencies out of 100 plus in the state who still carry insurance. I have employees who have been with me for over 20 years. Thats the dillema I face. How I wish we had federalized health care, (and from me thats anathema!!!)
Once again, thank you all for the input, it has given me more perspective from another side.
Ed:confused: :confused:

[Dennis Peacock]

Ed,

I'm sorry for the delima you are in and I feel for what you are truly going through. It's a tough time for many company's profit margin. What I was truly trying to convey is an experience from one who has this "new insurance" and it's killing us financially. We are a family that is not, in any sense of the word, keeping up with the Jones'.....but doing all we can to skrimp and save on monthly bills as much as we can. This new health plan has caused us a lot of grief as well as emotional strain with deciding if we can afford to go to the doctor or not. This new plan doesn't even pay anything on our medications. How many people can afford to pay Full Price for each of their perscription drugs when needed without having to put it on a credit card? I know we certainly can't.

So take it from someone that's living in the company cost savings insurance plan. It's like taking a $10K per year pay cut from the Net and not the Gross pay amount. So that's my 2¢ worth on this subject.

Best of luck on your decision as my thoughts and prayers will be with you while this is going around in your head for the right thing to do.

[Don Baer]

I have stayed out of this conversation until now but figured I'd put in my $.02 worth. I am 59 years old and am looking forward to my retirement in a few years. I have worked very hard to get to a point to where I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Wtih that said I see that the biggest expense I'll be faced wih in my retirement will be healthcare. I won't have a large group plan to fall back on, as a matter of fact other then medicare I won 't have any health plan to fall back on. It's a shame that we have let the the health care industry in this country get into such a state that only the wealthy can afford it. I don't want this to sound political but it realy is a polictical problem. The same problem that small businesses are faceing is the problem that independent folks are facing and that is health care has gone out of site in this country. I won't go into what I think need to be done since it would realy cuase a stir but I do know that something need to be done about the healthcare system in this country.

[Jon Farley]

The problem with these arguments is that much of the American public nowadays views health care more as a "right" than as what is truly is - a commodity. This "free lunch" view of health care, which is constantly being reinforced by short-sighted political rhetoric, is the true crisis...not the high cost of doctors' visits, insurance premiums and prescription drugs.

Health care is expensive for a reason. For instance, do you realize that it can take upwards of a quarter of a million dollars in educational costs for someone just to become a physician. Add to that tens of thousands of dollars in insurance, professional dues, and continuing education cost each year just to maintain a license to practice. As with any economic model, these costs are going to eventually make their way to you, the consumer.

So you don't like the cost/benefit ratio associated with health care (the cost being cash/the benefits being healthier bodies, cured diseases, longer life spans)? Then do something about it. Cut back on doctors visits, seek alternative treatments, forego treatments or forego medication. Look for more creative health plans. Change employers. Make sacrifices in other areas of you life to free up money for health care (I know, no one likes to hear that word...'sacrifice'). It sounds harsh, but you do have choices.

A case in point is the recent poster who claims to be "doing all we can to skrimp and save on monthly bills," and was complaining about the cost of a recent doctor's visit. Yet, just five months ago, this same person offered up a gloat here on SMC on the new high-end "toys" he purchased for his hobbiest shop http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32206. Choices...choices:o .

We make these choices every day when dealing with allocating our limited funds for other commodities (gas, food, woodworking supplies). But for some reason, many people feel that these choices shoud not apply to health care...oh wait I almost forgot, health care is a right:rolleyes: .

[Joe Pelonio]

Jon,

You failed to mention the biggest contributor to health care costs, that being liability and malpractice insurance. I'll leave it at.

Ed, there are other options, things done by other companies. One way to do that is to offer to let your employees choose from 2-3 plans with a varying contribution from them. Increase their part of the current plan, but offer them a less expensive plan, possibly HMO, with a lower employee contribution, and/or even the HSA plan so they can choose from 3 costs/benefits. When new employees come in, typically younger people will choose the plan with the lowest employee contributon.

[John Shuk]

All I can say is that hopefully the investment you are making in your employees is returned in productivity. Having 20 year plus employees is a good thing I would think. Personally I am sick of all of the employers who are abandoning their employees and treating them as if they are nuisances. I have alot more to say on this but this isn't the place for it.

[Larry Klaaren]

The problem with these arguments is that much of the American public nowadays views health care more as a "right" than as what is truly is - a commodity. This "free lunch" view of health care, which is constantly being reinforced by short-sighted political rhetoric, is the true crisis...not the high cost of doctors' visits, insurance premiums and prescription drugs.

Health care is a right from cradle to grave in most developed nations. The US being the exception in the very largest economies. Somehow those nations manage to compete in the world economy. When I was in graduate school the students from other nations were able to visit the doctor when they needed to and go ahead and start their families, while the "Americans" had to put it all on hold until graduation.

My cousin went to medical school in the US and ended up practicing in Canada. He says that it's a whole different world practicing with people who didn't get into the business for the high income. And for the ones who aren't motivated by money, it is a much better world to practice in when they don't have to think about how they had to clean out your life savings. Just his thoughts.

Larry

[Dennis Peacock]

Health care is a right from cradle to grave in most developed nations. The US being the exception in the very largest economies. Somehow those nations manage to compete in the world economy. When I was in graduate school the students from other nations were able to visit the doctor when they needed to and go ahead and start their families, while the "Americans" had to put it all on hold until graduation.

My cousin went to medical school in the US and ended up practicing in Canada. He says that it's a whole different world practicing with people who didn't get into the business for the high income. And for the ones who aren't motivated by money, it is a much better world to practice in when they don't have to think about how they had to clean out your life savings. Just his thoughts.

Larry

Very well stated Larry. But another contributor to high health costs is because of the people that can't pay. Many years ago, I worked in IT at a hospital and every year we had to process the "write offs" because some would not or could not pay the bill.

[Ian Barley]

Being in one of those "cradle to grave" societies gives me a different point of view to most and I certainly am not aiming to get into any political debate. But here in the UK private medicine is alive and kicking alongside a national health service that is frequently the subject of criticism but is a considerable national asset IMHO. I broke an ankle 18 months ago and all the emergency care and surgery was provided by services funded by my tax dollars (well pounds really:) ) over the years of working. Everything that I needed was provided but the care is certainly not "frilly" for creature comforts. When it came to physiotherapy the NHS wanted to put me on a once a month schedule which would have seen me back at work in about 8-9 months. I opted to pay for weekly with a private physio (who also works for the NHS and was trained at mostly public expense and I was basically mobile 3 months after surgery. This is a great balance in my view but the cost is still there. The UK taxpayers overall tax burden is approx twice the same figure in the US and about 40% higher than in Canada. Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch even when it's hospital food.

[Jon Farley]

[quote=Joe Pelonio]Jon,

You failed to mention the biggest contributor to health care costs, that being liability and malpractice insurance. I'll leave it at.

Joe,
You need to read more carefully, I most certainly did mention insurance costs. That said, there are lots of issues affecting health care costs that I did not even touch on. It would take too long to list them all. Just a few are Medicare and Medicaid, Medical Assistance, and non-paid visits to the ER, and HMO's that refuse to reimburse hospitals and physicians for services already rendered. We all end up paying for these.

[Jon Farley]

Health care is a right from cradle to grave in most developed nations. The US being the exception in the very largest economies. Somehow those nations manage to compete in the world economy. When I was in graduate school the students from other nations were able to visit the doctor when they needed to and go ahead and start their families, while the "Americans" had to put it all on hold until graduation.

My cousin went to medical school in the US and ended up practicing in Canada. He says that it's a whole different world practicing with people who didn't get into the business for the high income. And for the ones who aren't motivated by money, it is a much better world to practice in when they don't have to think about how they had to clean out your life savings. Just his thoughts.

Larry

Well, don't let economic realities get in the way of your quaint anecdotal observations.
Jon

[Joe Pelonio]

[quote=Joe Pelonio]Jon,

You failed to mention the biggest contributor to health care costs, that being liability and malpractice insurance. I'll leave it at.

Joe,
You need to read more carefully, I most certainly did mention insurance costs. That said, there are lots of issues affecting health care costs that I did not even touch on. It would take too long to list them all. Just a few are Medicare and Medicaid, Medical Assistance, and non-paid visits to the ER, and HMO's that refuse to reimburse hospitals and physicians for services already rendered. We all end up paying for these.
Sorry, I did miss that.

[Zahid Naqvi]

A case in point is the recent poster who claims to be "doing all we can to skrimp and save on monthly bills," and was complaining about the cost of a recent doctor's visit. Yet, just five months ago, this same person offered up a gloat here on SMC on the new high-end "toys" he purchased for his hobbiest shop http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32206. Choices...choices:o .


Jon, that was uncalled for. You made an assumption about a person without getting your facts straight. The above mentioned gloat was funded through selling another piece of machinery, there was no out of pocket expense.

Drs and health care professionals exist all over the world, and they all go through the same education and training. But the cost(and sallaries) in USA are about 2-3 times that of any other comparative economy. I have lived in three continents and have first hand experience with all these. The reasons for this artificial price/cost hike are a separate debate, and they have nothing to do with the quality of health care or operating cost.

[Cecil Arnold]

Apparently Jon's answer to health care is, if you can't afford treatment or medication--die. The high cost of doctor's visits is something that discourages screening for a number of problems that are much cheaper to treat in early stages, high blood pressure is one that comes to mind. Much cheaper to treat that than the results of a stroke.

[Jon Farley]

Jon, that was uncalled for. You made an assumption about a person without getting your facts straight. The above mentioned gloat was funded through selling another piece of machinery, there was no out of pocket expense.

Drs and health care professionals exist all over the world, and they all go through the same education and training. But the cost(and sallaries) in USA are about 2-3 times that of any other comparative economy. I have lived in three continents and have first hand experience with all these. The reasons for this artificial price/cost hike are a separate debate, and they have nothing to do with the quality of health care or operating cost.

What facts do I not have straight? Available funds were used to purchase a product. Said funds could be used in a myriad of ways. It was a choice (there's that nasty word again) to use in one way over another. "Out-of-pocket expense" is a phony term to falsely insinuate something to the effect that that money really doesn't exist.

Physicians' compensation here is determined by market-driven forces. Your idea that salaries here are 2-3 times higher than what they ought to be is peculiar, to say the least. And no, all doctors around the world do not go through the same training.

[Jon Farley]

Apparently Jon's answer to health care is, if you can't afford treatment or medication--die. The high cost of doctor's visits is something that discourages screening for a number of problems that are much cheaper to treat in early stages, high blood pressure is one that comes to mind. Much cheaper to treat that than the results of a stroke.

No that is not my answer. My point is that we have choices with what we do with our money and with our lives. Some people persist in feeling that health care is something we, as individuals, should not have to pay for. I, for one do not feel that way.

So Cecil, who do you think should pay for health care?

Jon

[Jim King]

I really have nothing to contribute that would be of benifit to anyone up there but I can add a few comments that may be interesting. On new years day I had a heart attack and a stroke. I was in intensive care for three days, 1 1/2 days unknown to me plus a normal day in the hospital for a total of four days. Every test known including cat scan etc etc . A small hospital of about 20 rooms managed by the Mormans and my complete bill was under $900. We have a constant flow of people coming here to South America for dental work, plastic surgery , cataract surgery etc. due to the absurd costs in the States. Something is really wrong up there. A few weeks ago I was in the States and had my Blood checked-1/2 hour $500 plus.

[Art Mulder]

No that is not my answer. My point is that we have choices with what we do with our money and with our lives. Some people persist in feeling that health care is something we, as individuals, should not have to pay for. I, for one do not feel that way.


TANSTAAFL** Of course we pay for it. The difference is just how we choose to pay for it. Personally, I'd rather we pay for it via gov't run medical insurance (or equivalent) so that we can help bear each others burdens. So my taxes here in Canada are higher than yours. But I also went to visit the doctor last week because I needed to, and didn't think about if I could afford it. This week I had an ultrasound because the doctor requested one, and I was grateful that I did not have to pull out my MasterCard.

But on the other hand, I do depend on my work healthplan to cover things like vision care, dental visits, and prescriptions... which are not covered by our provincial health insurance. It isn't a perect system.

I do agree that Jon has a point about choices and money. But that is a much bigger discussion than just healthcare. I've heard some scary statistics about the amount of consumer debt that people carry. I shake my head when I see these check-cashing kiosks out there taking working people for 3% of their paycheques. I've heard other stories about how little people are saving these days. I shake my head when I see media advertisements bombarding us with images designed to tempt us to spwnd our money on more junk. And so on.

Sure, some people should be smarter with their money. Sure, some people should buy a more economical car, drive less, eat out less, not go to Hawaii on vacation, etc etc etc. But some people just don't have the money in the first place. And it isn't always their fault. it's just life.

Hmm, I think I'm rambling, and I'm not sure if I'm making a coherent point, so I'd better stop.

blessings, all,
...art

ps: TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Coined by the SF writer Robert Heinlein many years ago.

[Rick Doyle]

Health care is a right from cradle to grave in most developed nations. The US being the exception in the very largest economies. Somehow those nations manage to compete in the world economy. ...
Larry
The more I read threads and news stories like these, the happier I am for the universal health care system we have in Canada. And, before anyone attacks it as socialist(or even communist) - yes, it probably is somewhat a socialist program - but, it sure is a terrific one!:D

Does it provide first class care? Absolutely! I am married and have a son and 4 daughters - all over 21 now and all have had absolutely great medical care all their lives - including doctors, specialists, hospitals, surgery etc. This morning, if I chose to, I could phone my own physician and get an appointment today, for an emergency, or within 3 days for anything else. Or, I could choose to go to any of the dozens of 'walk-in' clinics throughout the city to see a doctor there about a problem or anything else. All, or any of these services, is covered my Medicare - no fees to pay at all. Yes, it is payed by taxes - but, doesn't prevent me from doing or buying anything else I might want or can afford.

Most often, when I read stories about our universal healthcare, they rely on info from U.S. HMO's or other groups with a vested interest. Usually, they are some kind of horror story about interminable waits etc. - hogwash, all of it. I've lived it and experienced it - from major surgeries for my Dad(heart bypasses), heart attack to minor aches and pains - no problems at all - nada.

In our family budgeting - health care is not even a consideration. I'm very, very glad about that.

One more thing, while a lot of politicians rail against systems like Canada's, slowly but surely our system is being implemented in the U.S. Today, 100 million U.S. citizens are covered by some form of government paid medicare - and the number is growing dramatically(all politicians are covered). So, to me it seems, socialist or not - it is just a matter of time, not a matter of ideology. I just hope it's not too late for many who will suffer because of the delay.

[Cecil Arnold]

No that is not my answer. My point is that we have choices with what we do with our money and with our lives. Some people persist in feeling that health care is something we, as individuals, should not have to pay for. I, for one do not feel that way.

So Cecil, who do you think should pay for health care?

Jon

The easy answer, Jon, is the same people who are already paying for it. You seem to conveniently overlook what is already happening. This country does not just let people die, we have charity hospitals to deal with the poor and we all pay for those hospitals. We also all pay when someone goes to a hospital and can't pay their bill through higher hospital and insurance costs. When is the last time you heard of a hospital or insurance company filing bankruptcy? The "free market" spends 25% of our insurance bucks on admin. overhead and/or profits while government run programs only spend 5%. And finally, are we so egocentric to think that we are the only ones who are right when the rest of the industrialized world has some form of socialized medicine or national health care? I think not. So the answer is national health care with a private supplement for those who want/can afford it. It would cost much less than we are already paying IMHO. While I don't have anything against free markets, too many of them are not free, and they did, afterall, give us Enron.

[Joe Pelonio]

I really have nothing to contribute that would be of benifit to anyone up there but I can add a few comments that may be interesting. On new years day I had a heart attack and a stroke. I was in intensive care for three days, 1 1/2 days unknown to me plus a normal day in the hospital for a total of four days. Every test known including cat scan etc etc . A small hospital of about 20 rooms managed by the Mormans and my complete bill was under $900. We have a constant flow of people coming here to South America for dental work, plastic surgery , cataract surgery etc. due to the absurd costs in the States. Something is really wrong up there. A few weeks ago I was in the States and had my Blood checked-1/2 hour $500 plus.
Just for comparison purposes my brother in law recently was hospitalized for the same thing as you. He has no medical insurance and was taken to
the regional trauma hospital, and after close to a week his bills totalled $18,000, not counting another $10,000 for the air lift. In this case it's also a charity care hospital so the sliding scale is used to determine his actual cost. This hospital did $93 million in charitable care in 2004.

[John Shuk]

I really have nothing to contribute that would be of benifit to anyone up there but I can add a few comments that may be interesting. On new years day I had a heart attack and a stroke. I was in intensive care for three days, 1 1/2 days unknown to me plus a normal day in the hospital for a total of four days. Every test known including cat scan etc etc . A small hospital of about 20 rooms managed by the Mormans and my complete bill was under $900. We have a constant flow of people coming here to South America for dental work, plastic surgery , cataract surgery etc. due to the absurd costs in the States. Something is really wrong up there. A few weeks ago I was in the States and had my Blood checked-1/2 hour $500 plus.

Are the Mormons in it for profit or for humanitarian reasons? Could explain the inexpensive care. Do the funds used to operate the facilty come from profits earned in US healthcare facilities and spent elsewhere as charity? I don't know the answer but it seems likely to me. In Peru is the emergency room inundated with illegal immigrants waiting to be treated for colds? Illegals aren't the only ones who don't pay their bills but they sure are a big chunk. What is the life expectancy in Peru? I don't know the answer statiscally but I'll bet a paycheck that it is much shorter than here in the US. Could explain some of the expense.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

The thought of an employer being responsible for providing health care is obsolete. I hope and pray for a federalized health care system. And I’m a capitalist like most!

I do not see that there are any 'choices' in health care as mentioned above. That is, I do not choose to get sick. I do not choose what tests I need. Heck, I don't even choose how fast I want to heal! The only choice is which insurer I want, and they are basically all the same to me.

Think about this: If I had a severe pain and need go to the emergency room, I can probably choose the hospital since there are some to choose from near me. After that, you’re in their care. If a doctor says, "your appendix is hot and needs to be removed", do you reply "wait, let me get pricing on the anesthesiologist, the operating room, the surgeon, and the post surgery care". Even if you, you will be ignored as a lunatic and the doctor will probably say that you missed other ‘hidden’ costs like the sonogram, EKG, blood work, X-ray, internal medicine doctor, etc. Oh, and let’s not forget, the psychiatric evaluation for asking such a stupid question!

Our capitalistic system has been failing for years. The flames are being fueled by a modern transient workforce, exportation of our industrial base which is replaced by low end retail, and the importation of poverty through illegal immigration. Health care is going away just like the old fashion pension plans for basically the same reasons.

Massachusetts recently adopted a new law that requires all State residents to have health care insurance. It can be either thru a private insurer or thru the State. The State policy is based on your income level if your income falls below a threshold value. The average State plan cost estimates looked great, and it is for comprehensive coverage; not garbage plans that are being now being offered under the guise of a lower premium, and not the financial schemes like HSAs. I’ll be watching Massachusetts closely. It might be my retirement state!

However, I don’t think we will see universal health care in this country anytime soon. Like all the other glaring domestic issues we face, our government seems to have stopped governing. Everything is for sale or disposable…even the people.

I’m depressed now…Jeff

[Larry Klaaren]

I am aware that the national programs are often for basic medical care, and a private system exists alongside.

Here's where I am coming from on this. I have had to help raise money on two occasions so that an infant and a two year old girl could have open heart surgeries to repair congenital heart defects. I am talking about doctors and hospitals who will not cut until you have a half million dollars on the table, and insurers who will not pay because an uncommon life saving procedure is considered experimental. Forgive me for being ticked off about this for the last twelve years.

Who is going to make a "choice" not to have a procedure if they won't surivive without it? I know seniors who don't buy their medicine, and I know people whose insurance companies deny procedures because there is a cheaper, but not as helpful, procedure that could be done. It's essentially "You can get by with some pain and crutches, but if you have big bucks, we'll help." This is not a reflection of what our nation can do for people or of a compassionate society that cares for her people in an ethical way.

Larry

[Larry Klaaren]

As far as the original question, the advantage of the HSA in our system is two fold: you can set aside pre-tax money, and it's a way of budgeting for your eventual needs (the unused moneys do roll over.) I do not know how individual state laws affect these benefits. Hope that helps.

Larry

[Jim King]

John:
I really dont think the Seventh Day Adventists try to make a profit from the operations they maintain in places like this. The hospitals are with a constant flow of volunteers of Doctors from the US here volunteering their time and efforts plus training the local doctors in the latest methods and donating equipment from hospitals in the states.. Life expectancy in Peru is male: 68.05 years
female: 71.71 years . We have little or no illegal immigration problems. If there is an illegal immigaration problem it is because the people probably are wanted in other countries and it is easier to pay the police than leave.

As for Government hospitals the general rule is if you enter you will probably die. Stories you would not believe both good and bad. I dont know if I mixed the Seventh Day Adventists with the Mormans here or not. I dont pay much attn to religion as there are more kinds of churches here than Chinese restauarants. If I offended someone it was not intended.



















A

[Ed Breen]

Well, I seem to have instigated a furor. For myself, I tend to look longingly at state or national health care. I remember in 1980, returning a client to his homeland in africa I rented the vip suite at the hospital,(5 rooms for $35.00 per day) so that his new physician could get a baseline. What would it cost here at home, who can tell.
At any rate, I will probably try and set up a multi-level set of plans at employee choice. It will be some time before I have all the facts.
By the way, we are a 501 (c)3, but we receive no donated money. We earn every dollar. The only way that I believe we will ever find relief is to put all elected representatives and all civil servants in the same boat that we are. I happened on to a federal information page re healthy insurance and couldn't believe my eyes. No wonder they fight term limits so strongly.
Sorry for sermonizing.
Ed

[Dennis Peacock]

OK....Enough is enough and I honestly belive that Ed has all the info he needs. Thread Closed.