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harry strasil
08-23-2006, 11:51 PM
Some maybe interesting facts about timber from the past.

Q. Why were late January and February usually preferred as the months to cut timber to be made into lumber for furniture and other critical uses?

A. 1. The Sap was down about as far as it was gonna go in the trees. 2. It was easier to skid the logs out on snow and ice with animal power than on bare earth.


Q. What were the terms given to different sizes of commercial sawn timber in the old days?

A. A Balk varied from 12 to 18 inches square;
Whole timbers from 9 to 15 inches square;
Half Timbers from 9 by by 4.5 to 18 by 9 inches;
Scantlings from 6 by 4 to 12 by 12 inches;
Quartering from 2 by 2 to 6 by 6 inches;
Planks from 11 to 18 inches wide and from 3 to 6 inches thick;
Deals from 9 inches wide and 2 to 4.5 inches thick;
Battens from 4.5 to 7 inches wide and 3/4 to 3 inches thick;
Strips and Laths 4 inches wide and 1/2 to 1.5 inches thick.
Fir Trees
Hand Masts were the longest, soundest, straightest trees when topped and barked with circumfrences from 24 inches to 72 inches;
Spars and Poles had a circumfrence less than 24 inches;
Inch Masts had circumfrences of more than 72 inches and were generally dressed to an octagonal shape;
Ends were less than 8 feet long;
Larch and Spruce-
Scaffold and Ladder poles were from young trees and averaged 33 feet long;
Rickers were about 22 feet long and under 2.5 inches in diameter at the top end.


Q. Why were trees often not cut at the very base of the tree?

A. The minerals from the soil leeched into the very bottom of the tree and often discolored the timber.


Q. Why were logs often left standing in water for long periods?

A. The moisture prevented the log from splitting on the ends like it would have if stacked in the open air, and it was less labor intensive than stacking them on dry land. One of the quickest ways to cure a log is to immerse it in water and the water has a tendency to flush out the sap, but makes the wood brittle. But it does make the bark come off easier.


Q. Why wouldn't old timers take logs from a north slope of a mountain?

A. The trees were usually twisted from exposure to a predominately north wind. When you drive down the road look at the power poles and you can tell quickly which ones came from a north slope.


Q. What were Railroad Ties made of during the building of the transcontinental railroad?

A. What ever timber was available closest to the tracks, the trees were usually felled and the limbs removed, then the logs were squared where they rested on two sides only, cut to length, hauled to the roadbed and used green.


Q. What were wooden wagon wheels made of?

A. The spokes and felloes were usually ash or hickory, the hubs were usually of elm because of its aversion to splitting, they were cut a little longer than needed, a hole drilled in the center and the bark was left on and the ends sealed and left to dry for 8 years before use. Spokes and felloes were dried for a minimum 3 years.

Ed Nelson978
08-24-2006, 8:41 AM
Jr., your knowledge is quite impressive. I like others, would love to watch over your shoulder for a while. One of these days I would love to take in one of your demos one day. My folks live down near Branson, do you ever get down that way?

harry strasil
08-24-2006, 9:06 AM
I have been to Branson twice in my life, both as an observer. I very seldom get more than 50 miles from home, and with the price of gas and my present condition I mostly just stay at home.

James Mittlefehldt
08-24-2006, 5:23 PM
Q. What were Railroad Ties made of during the building of the transcontinetal railroad?

A. What ever timber was available closest to the tracks, the trees were usuallye felled and the limbs removed, then the logs were sqared where they rested on two sides only, cut to length, hauled to the roadbed and used green.

I recall reading the History of the New York Chicago & St. Louis Railway through the black swamp area of Northern Ohio and they had to cut down a lot of trees for the right of way, and so used them for ties, in this case whole groves of Black Walnut.

My father was raised a farmer and later became a sectionman on the T H & B railway in Ontario. I used to go with him if he had to patrol on weekends and he showed me some ties that were clearly curly maple with date nails indicating they had been laid prior to the first world war 1909 I believe.

He also showed me a bank barn once near where he grew up and apprently when it was built in the early 1900's they sheathed three sides of the barn with the wood from one white pine tree. He said it was befgore he was born but he saw the stump and said it was huge.

Sorry for rambling a bit there Harry but your mention of ties made me think of my dad, not a bad thing really, thanks.

harry strasil
08-24-2006, 5:37 PM
makes you wonder where they got the ties for going across Nebraska and other forest free areas. There was a huge old barn here that was made entirely of walnut as that was the wood available, it was post and beam construction and even the siding was walnut, the mangers had turned spindles in them. The fella that owned it would let no one salvage any lumber or timber from it, just dozed it over and set fire to it. The place where I first lived after getting married the garage framing was all native walnut.

There is a post and beam bank barn that the whole top was used for hay storage that has oak beams in the top of it that are hand hewn on two sides only and are all of 50 or 60 feet long. The mains structure is all native lumber either oak or walnut. The present owner is not sure when it was built and we could find no date anywhere. The whole top floor is open with no partisions anywhere.

A friend of mine did salvage some 12 by 12 walnut posts from an old barn years ago and he had a lifetime supply of walnut that he used to make furniture out of. He had a farm in Kansas that one barn was filled with Rough Sawn Walnut, Oak, Coffee Bean, Ash and assorted other lumber. I asked his wife several times about it after he passed on, but she would not tell me anything.

Mark Rios
08-24-2006, 5:46 PM
Thanks very much for that Harry.


If I may, this is from your second answer:


Deals from 9 inches wide and 2 to 4.5 inches thick;

Do I remember correctly that the phrase "A square deal" has something to do with the term "deal" that you reference from the lumber industry? This is a memory from the far reaches of my brain so I may be all wet but..........

Do you recall anything like that?

harry strasil
08-24-2006, 5:52 PM
The terminology fits, but I think "A square deal" refers to a contract or bargain in the past when a hand shake was all that was needed, no paperwork involved and its meaning was that the transaction was (square) or mutually acceptable to both parties as it was on the up and up.

harry strasil
08-24-2006, 6:00 PM
Old phrasology or meanings are another area of history that is fascinating.

Back when everyone wore guns, a handshake with the right hand, meant that you had no malice or meant no bodily harm to the other person, another non malicious courtesy was tipping your hat with your right hand to show you had no intent to do bodily harm.

The indians used " he speaks with a forked tongue" to denote one who says or promises one thing and does another, white people used "he is two faced."

When you sign a legal document there is a place for Witnesses to sign, this stems from the fact that a lot of people could neither read nor write and signed with an X, and the witnesses were to prove that that was the illiterate persons mark.

Don't get me started on the subject of historical phrases or terminology.

LOL