Wooden saw vise and a frame saw

[Ian Gillis]

Here are the last of today's photos. These 2 pieces come from Lunenburg County. The oxblood finish on the frame saw is typical of the finish used on wooden tools and sometimes furniture in this area. I have a big carpenter's chest with the same finish.

There was a thread about building a wooden saw vise here not too long ago. I would be happy to provide measurements and detailed photos for anyone interested in reproducing this vise. The detail shows the fox-wedged through tenon construction and one of the iron thumbscrews - good luck finding a thumbscrew this size!

I'm not entirely sure of the function of the frame saw. It's got 7 tpi with no set at all. It's filed right across like a ripsaw. Its use was the subject of speculation at the auction. Someone said it was an ice saw - but he wasn't too sure of himself. The width of the frame and the lack of set in the teeth make this plausible, but I'm open to other opinions.

The 2 details show one of the pegged through-tenon joints and a hand-forged wingnut. Jr, what do you think of this guy's work ?

[Clinton Findlay]

Frame saw - this one's set up would be for ripping down thick veneers from high value woods? i.e. stand the log/billet vertical in the vice and have 1 or 2 people guide the saw to cut a 1/32 or thinner veneer.

[harry strasil]

I have to differ with Clinton here, with that narrow web (blade) and the width of the frame it is more than likely was used as a felloe saw.

A veneer saw would be longer and narrower with a very wide blade to lessen the blades running out when sawing thin veneer from a balk.

Respectfully Jr.

[Tim Leo]

I have to differ with Clinton here, with that narrow web (blade) and the width of the frame it is more than likely was used as a felloe saw.

A veneer saw would be longer and narrower with a very wide blade to lessen the blades running out when sawing thin veneer from a balk.

Respectfully Jr.



Alright, I'll bite...

What is a felloe, and what is a balk?

[Ian Gillis]

Alright, I'll bite...

What is a felloe, and what is a balk?

I can help you with felloe. Felloes or fellies are the curved segmented pieces that go together to make the rim of a wheel.

Dictionary.com sez balk noun any heavy timber used for building purposes.

The only veneer saw I ever saw was in a photo of Franz Klaus and that was a gang saw - 5 blades separated by 1/8" if I remember correctly. He and his brother sawed veneers in their father's shop.

When I first spotted this saw my friend asked me what kind of saw I thought it was. I said I wasn't sure, but if it had more than one blade I'd call it a veneer saw.

I think it's a one person saw. There are handholds only on one end. Sure, you could hold the other end with your hands inside the stretchers, but if it was designed for two why wouldn't the far end be the same length?

IG

[harry strasil]

Ian is right on, a felloe or felly is one of the segmental outer parts of a wooden wagon wheel. A felloe only covers the area of 2 spokes. A Rim is more common with buggy wheels and is half of the outside diameter of a wooden wheel.

A Balk is an old term for the piece of timber that veneer was sawed out of. I imagine it is actually a misspelling of the word bulk. A balk was usually 12 by 12 inches to 18 by 18 inches.

Simularly, in the old days any inferior wood, usually soft wood, was called Deal and was used to make a carcase and then covered with veneer. Today a Deal is known as a 9 inch by 4.5 inch timber usually from 6 to 9 foot long that is usually of cottonwood or some other inferior wood, and bundled into specific bundles by a sawmill and shipped to the furniture manufacturers to dry and then cut to dimension for the interior structure of furniture.

Sorry about my rambling long winded explanations, but so many of the old terms have almost disappeared or been forgotten as well as the terminology and uses of some of the old tools. I just can't help myself about trying to set some of it straight or bring it back for this generation and hopefully they will pass it on to the next generation and so on.

Respectfully

Jr. Strasil

[Wiktor Kuc]

This would be very interesting to see how you restore the saw and I also would be interested in dimensions and more photos.

[Tim Leo]

Wow, I've learned something new. Well, actually three things. I'm glad I asked.

Keep up the good work, Jr.

Thanks.

[Clinton Findlay]

Wow, someone else that knows about multi-blade veneer frame saws! :)

I made a frame saw and am in the process of making a multiblade one, good to find someone else that has seen one.

The Ribout (?) encyclopedia has an engraving of single blade frame saw being used to cut a veneer, with the previously cut venners still attached to the billet. The veneers are bowed over to one side from their own weight. The sawyer stopped cutting when the cut neared the part of the billet that was in the vice. Two people are on the saw.
Other pics have the framesaw being used by one man to resaw larger sections.
I don't know how much artistic liscence was used in the compilation of the workshop pics.
I haven't seen them being used for other work - only because I wasn't looking for anything other than veneer cutting.

I'm sure there are a lot of uses for a frame saw, using it as if it were a bowsaw to cut curved work is a practical use, and perhaps more common than cutting veneers - I don't know.

My frame saw has a narrow blade, for want of a wide one being available when I went through the bin at my saw doctors (I love free stuff, my saw doctor loves seeing old tools remade, a nice match) - A wider blade would be nice.

[Ian Gillis]

Wow, someone else that knows about multi-blade veneer frame saws! :)

Evidence of my misspent youth :/


I made a frame saw and am in the process of making a multiblade one, good to find someone else that has seen one.


As they say around here... no pics, never happened !!

Start a new thread about frame saws, please. I have a question or 2 for you.

Cheers

IG

[Larry Gelder]

...
There was a thread about building a wooden saw vise here not too long ago. I would be happy to provide measurements and detailed photos for anyone interested in reproducing this vise...

Please do.

[Ian Gillis]

Please do.
Ok, I will :)

My drafting skills have gone downhill, but I think anyone who takes a good look at the drawing and photos should be able to work things out.

Notes:

The wood appears to be maple - hard to tell for sure with the finish and the grime.

I left out one dimension. The mortises in the base are positioned 1" from each end. If you lay this out at the indicated angle and height, the other positions will fall into place.

Base pieces are 1 7/8 X 1 1/4, tapered to 1 1/16 from top to bottom.

The 1 7/8" wide mortises are slightly flared (approx 1/8") on their exposed ends to allow for insertion of wedges.

The thumbscrews are 3 3/4" in overall length 1/2" x 6 tpi.

The butt hinges are 1 1/2" square.

IMPORTANT: As presented, this vise is NOT backsaw friendly. Modification of jaws is required to accomodate backsaws.

If anyone takes the time to build it I hope they'll share some pics of the result.

Cheers

IG

[Roger Charles]

I have a saw like that. Bought it about 30 years ago from an antique dealer in the Montreal area. Thanks to Harry I now know what it was used for. All that remains for me is to find its french name but that shouldn't be too hard. The side members are are 1¾" x 11/8" by 28". They taper to one inch at the end. The top and bottom members are 7/8" x 1¼" x 23¾". It is obviously shop made and looks very old. The blade is about ½" wide. It is a 5tpi sharpened as a rip saw with no set at all. The blade and the rest of the hardware must have been made by the village blacksmith. The blade is broken but I am lucky enough to have the missing piece. I think the wood is maple but there is so much grime that I wouldn't bet on it. Here are a couple of pictures.

http://www.lamortaise.com/modules/gallery/albums/album253/scie_cadre_001.jpg

http://www.lamortaise.com/modules/gallery/albums/album253/scie_cadre_004.jpg

[Clinton Findlay]

I found the pic, just google "roubo" to find the encyclopedia (somewhere), or " L'Art du Menuisier " for the wikipedia entry. Theres an web version of it floating around, but its in French and difficult for me to use.
Hope it helps to find the french name