Glues/Adhesives

[John Kain]

I know this is a very broad question, but I'd like some of you pros to weigh in with what type of glue/adhesive you like to use in certain circumstances.

M&T Joinery
Laminating
Veneering
Long grain joinery
Complex angle
Framing
etc
etc
etc

Maybe just throw in some pearls of wisdom you've learned through the years and why you use a certain adhesive in a certain situation

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey John,
I don't claim to be a pro, but I've built a lot of stuff and none of the glue joints have come apart yet. Matter of fact, one piece fell 5 feet and broke, but the sides of the mortise broke, about 1/32 proud of the glue line.

My general philosophy for glue is:

If its going outdoors, use epoxy or titebond 3.

If the assembly is complicated, eg. lots of pieces or lots of joints, I use titebond extend for some extra time. Hide glue works well, too.

For veneering, Unibond - gives you a little flexibility and doesn't bleed thru the veneer unless aggravated.

For everything else, plain old titebond.

I once took a short class from Kelley Mehler. He said that if you take your woodworking seriously, you should be building pieces that will last for a few hundred years, which means they will need to be taken apart for maintenance - so use hide glue, which is reversible with moisture and heat. I doubt that any of my work will be around that long, but its interesting to think about it.

Hope this helps.

[John Kain]

Wow, very little response. I thought there would be alot of personal preferences...........

[Mike Cutler]

John.

I wouldn't worry about the number of responses. Sometimes folks like to read, and are reticent(sp.) to jump in. This is one of those "take a position" sort of questions. So I'm going to take mine, and provide for some fodder.

Awhile back, Bob Smalser wrote a very lengthy post on glues and adhesives. In that thread many people wrote to express their personal experiences with different adhesives/glues, and the succeses or problems that they encountered.

Based on Bob's post, and subsequent discussion in the thread, I now pretty much use epoxy for everything, and I think that if I were ever to make "fine furnuture" I would use Hide glues for the repairability aspect. Bob's post really changed the way I viewed glues.

I have found that epoxy gives me "One stop shopping". I can control the time to cure, the open time, and the effect of temperature on the adhesive. On one hand it is more forgiving than PVA's, but on the other it can be frustrating until you learn to control the reaction times, (I'm still working on that, by the way). I also found out that it cleans up much easier than some other glues, which was surprising.

I used to like Gorilla Glue, but the mess was a pain, and if you ever let it harden outside of the joint it was like chiseling cement. It works great, but you gotta be quick depending on the temperature.

I've read a few too many posts about the "creep effect" of PVA's to really trust them long term anymore, still though they have their place. I never really liked titebond too much. I'm a messy person by nature, and I make a serious mess with Titebond.:o . You're safer giving a five year old a bucket of paint in a museum, than to give me a bottle of Titebond.:eek:

My final position on adhesives and glues. Never trust glue alone to make a joint. The joint need mechanical integrity. The adhesive component just holds it in place.

My .02 on the subject fwiw.

[Greg Ladd]

John,

I second Mike's comments regarding Bob's article on repairable glue joints. Without a doubt one of the best threads on the subject I have ever read. I certainly don't know enough to add to Bob's thoughts...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822&highlight=glue

Greg

[Chris Barton]

I will add comment here. I have built plenty of what I considered fine furniture and I have used hide, PVA, epoxy, urethane and plastic resin glues all with success. I kind of have a philosophical issue with the thinking of using hide gule for its repairability factor. That's kind of like engineering for failure. If a joint is going to be high stress like lower chair rungs and the like, epoxy or urethane. For standard jointery on furniture pieces I mostly use Probond brand PVA glue because the texture seems to be easier to work with than the Titebond brand. For complex glue ups, like dovetail joints and such I like plastic resin because of the long working time and easy clean up.

But, that's just my opinion.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

THis thread has boatloads of Hide glue information

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33303&highlight=cow%27s

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I use plastic resin glue (DAP Weldwood) for all panels, tabletops and laminations. I also use this for any cutting boards that I glue up. In the past I've used epoxy (T-88) on laminations, but didn't see any benefit over the PR.

I use Gorilla poly for all 'closed' mortise and tenon joints ('closed' meaning other than 'through). I've tried all the 'major' poly glues and Gorilla is my personal preference.

For through tenons, I use mostly the plastic resin, but will occasionally use yellow glue...depending on whether the glueup in general is complicated or simple. More open time with the PR.

I use square plugs to cover dowel pins on Mission stuff, and will use yellow glue for both the dowel and the plug if the plug is finished 'proud' of the surface. If the plug will be flush, I'd use plastic resin.

I use yellow glue on MDF shop jigs, cabinet carcasses, and in places I might need a 'quick tack', like on an applied molding.

KC

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822

A nice little thread on glue.

Edit: Oops! I see this was posted already...mine doesn't have the highlighted sections, however. :D

Also, as to repsonses, the weekends are always slow and during the summer, even slower.

[Steve Clardy]

I don't switch glues often

I've used titebond original for a long time.

[Aaron Beaver]

I used to use Gorillia Glue a lot but I have now switched to Sumo Glue for places where I would of used Gorillia. Sumo Glue is easier to work with IMO, and only expands 1/2 as much or less for the same strength.

[Lori Kleinberg]

I have found this to be a very interesting topic. Thank you for posting. I would definetly like to hear from others on this topic. Personnally I use mostly Titebond III on everything (not that I have built much) and I use Gorilla glue when I am gluing different materials together.

[tod evans]

i use several different types of glue for different applications but 90% of the time i use plain ol` yeller glue.....if you need to use polyurethane glue make sure it is used in a clamping situation, mortise-n-tennon work and dovetails are a big no-no for poly glues because they can`t be clamped across the glueline......02 tod

[Aaron Beaver]

.....if you need to use polyurethane glue make sure it is used in a clamping situation, mortise-n-tennon work and dovetails are a big no-no for poly glues because they can`t be clamped across the glueline......02 tod

I don't follow, can't be clamped across the glue line. What do you mean by this, could you/someone clarify it for me, I am just not picturing it is all. Thanks

[tod evans]

I don't follow, can't be clamped across the glue line. What do you mean by this, could you/someone clarify it for me, I am just not picturing it is all. Thanks

aaron, polyurethane glue needs clamping pressure, picture clamping two 1x6 boards edge to edge using bar clamps. the slop necessary to assemble mortise-n-tennon or dovetail joints is too much gap for the poly glue to achieve a strong bond. the foam you see when the glue cures has no structural strength and that`s what you`d be relying on if you used poly glue in a non clampable situation.....02 tod