Nice Catch (un-gloat!)

[Rick Smith]

The 8" x 1" culprit (from an old oak fireplace mantle), and the result. Time for a trip to WoodCrafter's (and Wal-mart for undies...)

[Travis Stinson]

Good grief Rick! Glad it's only new undies you need.:eek:
That was a very hard lesson on why a roughing gouge shouldn't be used on facegrain/bowl oriented wood, only spindles.

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Ouch! I'm glad you didn't need extensive personal repair on that one, Rick.

[Lee DeRaud]

Face-grain and a roughing gouge...guess there really is a reason they say that's a no-no. :eek:

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

Been there,done that!!!:D

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

LUCKLY..............Ain't been there....................Ain't done THAT.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce

[Gary DeWitt]

That piece of metal on the left, is (was) that your rest? Did you break that too?! That must've been a hell of a crash. Glad you're still in one piece. Thanks for posting, we could all use a safety reminder now and then.

[Myrel Willeford]

Wow Nasty catch about how fast were you turning? glad to see you were not hurt!

[Andy Hoyt]

Paging Stu Ablett!:D

Rick - Glad you're okay. My guess it that there was a big lesson learned here. And one you won't likely ever forget.

[Raymond Overman]

OOOOOO... now that's a bad day. I'm glad you're ok except for a little extra laundry.

I would guess you have learned your lesson and won't be doing that again. Thanks for sharing to help remind the oldies and present a learning opportunity for the new guys.

Hope you're back up and running soon.

[Claude Arragon]

Ooops!... :rolleyes: did you by any chance forgot your were turning face grain.
But in any case, with the strongest catch there is NO reasons for the roughing gouge to break. May I say that even if it was not a proper usage, this gouge DID HAVE a defect…
You learned the bad way, but I will sure be cautious in buying a new one…

[Rick Smith]

but it is one of those "small things" that slip your mind. Just "truing up the edge a little", and WHAM. Being as how I'm a firm believer in the face shield, apron, never standing directly in front, etc., etc. - no harm done except for the trip to the tool mart. I had even turned the little lathe to the lowest setting, as I was going to remount the piece next.
Glad it might be a reminder of when you take short-cuts or get too comfortable.

[Jonathon Spafford]

Oooooh... that would not be fun.

I don't get what is so bad about using roughing gouges for the outside of bowls... that is the way I usually do it. Maybe I won't be trying it again though.

[Travis Stinson]

Jonathon, take a good look at the picture of the broken tang and see how little supporting metal is there.;)

[ROBERT SCHUMAN]

Ouch !Did that once, piece was bigger and the tool smaller brings back old pain! Make us rethink our techniques.

[Bill Boehme]

.....I don't get what is so bad about using roughing gouges for the outside of bowls... that is the way I usually do it. Maybe I won't be trying it again though.
Refer to pictures at the beginning of the thread, then to the lastest issue of American Woodturner, and then to the catalogs which refer to the tool as a spindle roughing gouge.

If you want a brief synopsis -- when you get a catch just at the region where the gouge is going from end grain to side grain, the edge will bury itself into the wood and all of the energy stored in the rotating parts of the lathe (big chunk of wood, large chuck, spindle pulleys, and motor armature -- lots of angular momentum) will all be converted into kinetic energy over a period of about 10 milliseconds (think of the SawStop). That energy over such a short period of time results in extremely large forces -- broken tool rest, broken tool, broken arm, and possibly much worse -- and a leather apron and face shield are useless in this situation. In fact, worse than useless because they give a false sense of security.

Bill

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Paging Stu Ablett!:D

Rick - Glad you're okay. My guess it that there was a big lesson learned here. And one you won't likely ever forget.

I call foul on this one, I don't even OWN a roughing gouge :D

The pic I showed you Andy, was a roughing gouge on a spindle, get over it ;) :D

Glad you made it though that one with only a tool buying trip Rick, no ER trips.

Cheers!

[John Shuk]

Whew. I guess they were right.

[Joe Fisher]

Rick, glad to hear you're OK. Mind if I ask how you were presenting the tool to the work that would have caused that wicked of a catch? Was the tool off the rest at all? I'm having trouble envisioning any kind of tool presentation that would cause that kind of force, and I'd like to avoid it if possible! :)

Travis, that's one reason I use a P&N roughing gouge on my spindle work. If you take a look at a picture of it (for example, at Lee Valley's website) you'll see that the tang is B-E-E-F-Y. Full 1 1/4" round stock gradually tapering to a 7/16" round tang - no stamped rectangular tangs here.

-Joe

[Joe Fisher]

If you want a brief synopsis -- when you get a catch just at the region where the gouge is going from end grain to side grain, the edge will bury itself into the wood...
Bill,

Thanks for the synopsis. If I may ask, why doesn't this happen with a bowl gouge? An edge is an edge, isn't it?

Or is the point that the same catch could happen with a bowl gouge, but the bowl gouge's round stock is more resistant to breakage than the SRG's tang?

Thanks,

-Joe

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the synopsis. If I may ask, why doesn't this happen with a bowl gouge? An edge is an edge, isn't it?

Or is the point that the same catch could happen with a bowl gouge, but the bowl gouge's round stock is more resistant to breakage than the SRG's tang?
You have your answer in the second paragraph of your post...the bowl gouge is a continuous thickness of metal all the way into the handle. It's made from round stock with the flute ground out and is quite strong, relative to its diameter. It can take a lot of force...a catch will potentially break your tool rest and/or the workpiece, but the tool will rarely break.

A spindle roughing gouge is made from a flat piece of metal that is cut into shape so it has a small tang to go into the handle and then rolled to create the flute. There is a potentially large cutting surface with an aggressive edge connected to a relatively weak area at the handle. Big, round objects like faceplate turnings spin with a lot of force and that is transmitted to that thin metal big-time when you get a catch or try to cut too aggressively...and they break.

The problem is less the tool breaking (although that costs money), but what the collateral effects may be. Like physical damage to your person in the worst case and physical damage to your lathe and shop at the least.
--------

Rick...I'm glad you didn't get hurt and were able to post your important reminder about how "stuff happens".

[Pat Berry]

I feel your pain

I just got my new rest in the mail Friday. I hung what looks like the same pinnacle gouge on my "oops board" in front of my lathe.

[Jonathon Spafford]

I thought the article in the last journal was refering to the inside of bowls not to the outside. Your synopsis made sense Bill, but it still seems that if your cuts aren't too heavy, the tool rest is close, and you are not forcing the gouge into the wood that you should be fine... just hope I don't find out for myself :D

[Rick Smith]

Bill,

Thanks for the synopsis. If I may ask, why doesn't this happen with a bowl gouge? An edge is an edge, isn't it?

Or is the point that the same catch could happen with a bowl gouge, but the bowl gouge's round stock is more resistant to breakage than the SRG's tang?

Thanks,

-Joe

Joe, I believe I had the gouge rolled to the right, at approx. 45 degrees. Came too far left and caught the leading edge of the wood, and dug in to a small flat spot from the band saw...

[Bill Boehme]

.......You have your answer in the second paragraph of your post...the bowl gouge is a continuous thickness of metal all the way into the handle. It's made from round stock with the flute ground out and is quite strong, relative to its diameter. It can take a lot of force...a catch will potentially break your tool rest and/or the workpiece, but the tool will rarely break..........

In addition to what Jim says, the diameter of a bowl gouge is small compared to the spindle roughing gouge. A bowl gouge's shape places the line of force downward through the center of the tool without much of a rolling moment being induced even during a catch -- as long as the tool is used correctly.

With a spindle roughing gouge, you have the the problem of a very large diameter and a cross section that looks like the letter "C". In spindle turning, the tool rides high and the line of force is generally just through the thickness of the steel without a rolling moment, but if you use it on something that is very large in diameter, the contact point is not likely to be straight above the point that rests on the lathe because the tool is cutting low on the side of the wood. This leads to a large rolling moment being produced when there is an incipient catch. The situation is then a run-away instability that you don't have enough time for you to react.

Bill

[Glenn Hodges]

In the past I have heard or read turners refer to using a roughing gouge to rough out a bowl. They were referring to a big bowl gouge, but new turners take them literally word for word and pick up their roughing gouge designed for spindle turning. I wish turners would use the correct vocabulary when describing the tools they used when turning. If they did maybe this type of accident would be prevented. When a spindle gouge is presented to a bowl blank the piece is so large the force of the turning wood will hit the large cutting face of the roughing gouge, and this force will be transferred to the small tang of the roughing gouge. We see the resulting accident posted here. Do not use a roughing gouge on a bowl blank, tell your buddies this also.

[Don Baer]

Hey Glenn,
Congrats, that was your 1000th post. Now to resume the regular programming.