My wedding present for my daughter......

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Last Saturday, I turned 2 stems from some cherry. Two snapped stems later I had no wood I wanted to use.....Sunday I drove to Spokane and ended up buying some cherry and some tigerwood. Here's the tigerwood stem. I finished turning it at 1130 pm Sunday night.

I turned 2 captured rings and had my wife witness them. Then I thought they looked too big....overpowering...gaudy. So after I finished turned the top of the stem, I removed the original rings and turned these two and one more. One of them cracked as it was cut loose from the spindle.....It worked well for making them interlocked.

The stem is 6" by 3 1/8" at the base...the wood tigerwood......rings captive interlocked. Finish is Zinsser dewaxed shellac...Beal buffed.....

I had a local engraver engrave the goblet and I snapped it off about 3/4" below the bowl and used GE Silicon II Clear as an adhesive.

I would appreciate critiques and comments.

IF I had more time and was doing it over.....I'd make it about 1/2" shorter taking that off immediately below the goblet bowl.....I'd make the ring (?) in the middle of the stem slightly smaller in diameter and I might think about making the stem smaller in diameter as well. I'd also might consider making the upper and lower portions of the stems the same diameter though I like this design.

This I believe to be my best turning so far.........Comments and critiques welcome.........I can't improve if you don't help me correct my mistakes...

I hope it's worthy as a gift for my daughter's wedding Sunday!

[Don Baer]

OK Ken as you asked I'll add my comment for what there worth (just what you paid for em)
I agree the stem pieces could be a little bit shorter, not much but a little bit. I would also make the top piece of the stem flar out a little to soften the transition from the wood to the glass. But that just my opion. I also want to add that the piece looks super and I am sure your daughter will love and treasure it.

grat work Ken, you have realy progressed in a very short time.

[Scott Donley]

Love them Ken, sure hope it is not one of those weddings where they throw the glasses after the toast :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Ken,

That's a real beauty you got there!!!!! Very, very nice. I do agree with you and Don about the slight changes to the piece, but overall very nice.

One other note that seems to me would make it look more "delicate" to better match the delicate look and form of the glass? Take the foot to a narrower "edge" to make it appear to be thinner and lighter. Understand what I'm trying to say? The foot as you have it looks good, but it has an appearance of being thick at the edge of the foot. But then again, it's not easy to tell from pictures all the time. ;)

Still, very pretty piece and I'm sure it will be a treasure for many years to come. Excellent work and I'm proud of you and what you have accomplished here on this for a special wedding gift. :D :cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Ken - Can you post a pic of the piece from dead on level on the entire object?

And also a dead on level close up of the turned portion, as well?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'll get it Andy.......

Is this what you want?

[Bill Boehme]

One way to easily make the base look a bit thinner is to chamfer the sharp edge of the foot just a bit so that it would have a rounded edge similar to what the glass base had. This could even be done off lathe at this stage, but I would say that they look great just as they are without any changes. I think that most often are not looking for the same types of details that turners look for. For instance, LOML will tell me that my latest bowl looks good, but it would look better if it were not so thin and then requests that the next one have walls about a half-inch or more thick so that it will have some haft. Yes ma'm, I'll see if I can do it right next time.

Bill

[Dick Parr]

Wonderful job Ken, they look great. Your daughter will love them. ;)

[Claude Arragon]

That is a beautiful wedding present!
Not only it is very nice and original but in addition you did it for your daughter, and that has an immense value.
Congratulation to both parents. :)

[Michael Stafford]

Tigerwood, aka Goncalo alves, is a nice looking wood and you did a fine pair of stems for your daughter and they will be heirlooms in your family, Ken. Congratulations!

[Vaughn McMillan]

Those look great Ken. Your dauther and new SIL will treasure them. As far as critique, I don't know that I'm able to offer anything that hasn't already been said, but the main thing is that you recognize things you'd like to change next time. That's an indication of a learning process. Same dog bites me, too. :)

- Vaughn

[Travis Stinson]

Looks fantastic Ken! It's definitely a worthy gift for your Daughter. She'll cherish it forever. As far as the next time, I agree with Don's assessment of flaring out the top piece just under the globe to remove the straight portion. Maybe chamfer the edge of the foot some, but it works as is also.

[Keith Burns]

Wow Ken, it looks great, super job, a family heirloom for sure. The only thing i see would be to flare into the glass. Just think Ken, a year ago you couldn't even spell turner, now you are one:) :)

[Jim Stoppleworth]

Wow Ken, it looks great, super job, a family heirloom for sure. The only thing i see would be to flare into the glass. :) :)

Daughter will love them. They're beautiful!!

I tend to agree on more flare into the glass. How much flare into the glass are you suggesting? across the bottom of the glass? partway up the bowl of the glass?

I'm asking for a glass that will probably have more use than for the bride and groom's toast. An heirloom like Ken's might be used again for a first anniversary but I see it being displayed as a precious wedding memory more than being used regularly, although I certainly could be wrong.

Jim

[Jim Becker]

It's easy for you to say "if I could change this...", but that's a lovely gift that will undoubtedly be one of the best and most cherished she receives...outside of her new husband! Great job, Ken!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken you did a beautiful job. I agree with flairing the top to meet the glass portion better. I agree with you that the middle should be just slightly smaller. Ken your daughter is going to love it. She will cherish that forever. Nice work dad.

[Ben Werner]

Looks great. :DI agree about the flare on the top. Also for the middle section the little bead thing just doesnt look quite right to me... cant put my finger on it though... maybe if it was a little more rounded.... hmmm Over all though I love it, and so will your daughter. :D

[Charles E. Martin V]

I wish I was going to be your son in law if gifts like that are being given.

[Andy Hoyt]

Talk about being put on the spot! First I get a message from Ken asking that I honestly critique this piece and that I do so in front of all y'all. I replied that I would. Then I have to wait a day and a half for him to post the darn thing. In turn this gives me time to read and reread everything that's been said about critquing and commenting over the last few days. I feel caught in a four way tug of war between my objective and subjective observations on the goblet; the friendship that's developed between Ken and I (that does not need to be blemished); my worry about the kind of regard the rest of you may now hold me in as a result of what I might say; and most importantly - who the heck decided that I'd know what I'm talking about?

Bill Grumbine was right. This is not easy. Nor is it much fun. In the end I decided to trust my instincts and report what I see; as well as trust that Ken understands that this comes from the heart.

Here are your two pics - edited for comment.

45117 45118

1 - The base is too wide. Sure, the piece is tall and full of spilly stuff when in use so you wanted to ensure stability; but to please my eye it should be significantly smaller as indicated by the inner edges of the two blocks in pic two, which is about one half the diameter of the glass portion. Ken - when you turned this, was the glass in hand or at the engravers? Really should be available while turning for an ongoing proportional analysis. I've also shown/suggested a profile with a chamfered edge that appeals to my sensibilities.

2 - Overall, the stem seems to be just the right thickess. My guess is that the earlier pieces were a bit thinner. But effect of the double coved detail effectively turns one stem into two stems. I prefer one nice long sweeping profile top to bottom.

3 - I'm not sure what purpose this detail serves. On stuff like this elegance seems to be enhanced by the simplicity. Reminds be of that line in Jurassic Park - "You knew that you could, but did you stop to consider whether you should?". Don't feel the need to fill the piece with distracting elements.

4 - This is the only spot on the piece that has a straight (and vertical) line. It seems out of place. I can imagine the concerns you had about making the wood to glass connection. And again, I worry that the glass was elsewhere when you formed this section. Did you break the stem before or after turning? I would hope before.

5 - The transistion from wood to glass seems too abrupt. It would please my eye more if the curve of the glass swept right into a reversing curve on the wood. Which I feebly show in the second pic. Sorry - my mouse drawing skills need work.

Okay that's it. I hold no envy for those who formally jury and critique works on a regular basis. Its tough.

Ken. What I would have much rather said was this.

Wow! What a great goblet! And a wonderful gift for your daughter and new son. I'm sure that they'll cherish both it and the love from whence it was borne. An excellent first glass/wood combo goblet. I gotta try that sometime.

I gotta try that sometime. Like I said -
who the heck decided that I'd know what I'm talking about? Well done my friend.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Great job at critiquing Andy, it is a hard thing to do, but I think you did your friendship with Ken a service, in being honest and showing how you think it would be more pleasing to the eye.

I agree with most comments here, but the one I have to agree with most is the one about Ken's daughter and new son-in-law cherishing them for a long time.

Ken, you can do better, and you will, don't forget, there are always anniversaries, babies born etc.

Lastly, I'd like to say "Thanks" for the great idea Ken!

Cheers!

[Dave Smith]

Excellent present. Your daughter and your new son-inlaw will treasure the goblets fore ever. The guest will be very impressed with your thoughtful and innovative present. None of them will critique the turning because it is what it is and "is" is perfect for the occasion. From what I see you are perfect in your daughter's eyes and that is all that counts. I may have done several things different in turning the stem but couldn't have matched the love you put into the goblets.

Contact me you ever need turning wood in a hurry.

Dave Smith

Watching grand childern this afternoon in Longview, WA.

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Ken, I don't believe I can add much more than has been added here. You've done a great job with execution and finish, which, IMHO, cannot be faulted. This is a gift which will be treasured.

Andy pointed out just about everything I saw, although my opinion on the stem differs from his just a bit. I like the divided stem, and I think the proportion of height is quite nice. What I would do, however, is try to get the curves on either side of the fillet to match a bit better. The thickness at the extremes (top, center, bottom) should be the same, and the curve should be flowing and uniform throughout, with proportions maintained.

Don't get me wrong, Ken, you've done a great job. Better than I could do at my stage of development. This is a wonderful heirloom of which you should be proud, and of which I'm sure your daughter will be, as well.

[Travis White]

You did a very good job. :)

[John Shuk]

Very nice Ken. I just want to say what a pleasure it has been to watch you move deeper and deeper into the abyss.

[Tom Sherman]

Ken I should be the last one to critique this project since I have not yet attempted such a task. I can however make this observation, The spirit that inspired this goblet and your desire to have it be as perfect as possible is readily apparent. Don't get to caught up in critisizing your work you know we are all our own worst critics, console yourself with the thought that your daughter will treasure this gift because it was hand crafted by you with all the love you could muster, and that is not a bad thing at all.

[Corey Hallagan]

It looks very nice Ken. Great job.

Corey

[Curt Fuller]

Ken, those are very nice! I think all the suggestions for refining the shape are great suggestions. But it's also very pretty as it is. It's going to be a great wedding gift.

BTW, how are the wooden stems attached to the glass cups?

[Stephen Hibbs]

Beautiful piece Ken, is the glass portion from an ordered kit? I would suggest making the upper half of the stem slightly longer as it looks shorter than the bottom half of the stem. I also agree with a thinner base, I always make mine thin and undercut them as well, keeps the cups light. All in all a very beautiful cup with a nice finish. Congrats!

[Rick Doyle]

Beautiful job, Ken. That will be a wonderful keepsake!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

First,...........my thanks to Andy for having the courage to provide me with an honest critique of my goblet and to do it publically!

Too often, I ask friends "What do you think?" and they try to be nice and not offend me. Folks.......I don't learn from a pastuerized opinion....and yet the "attaboys" fan my desire to improve......and that brings up another point.......opinions are just that opinions.....A person's opinion doesn't necessarily mean they are right or wrong....just OPINIONated! I have, what I believe to be, a pretty good idea about my level of turning skills......what my lack of knowledge on traditional turnings are......my turning skills are such today, that very little happens by accident.....as a result of catches for example.........Most of the "unusual" items are now a result of my lack of planning or over exhuberance......For example,...my latest NE.........Forrest held it in his hands....and I pointed out the 4 screw holes on the foot. When I got that wet wood I was so excited to turn another NE.....I screwed the faceplate to the wrong side of the blank...mounted it to the lathe........and then proceeded to cuss the "dummy" for his mistake. I could have shortened the sides and gotten rid of the mistake but refused to give up the wall height.......so the 4 holes reside in the bottom........

Borrowing a line from Paul Harvey.......And now the rest of the story....

I got the idea for doing this after seeing some of the goblets posted here....mainly by Curt Fuller..............

The idea was to make the ENGRAVING the star of the show. It is my belief that straighter sides on the glass portion of the goblet would allow for a larger, more focused engraving.

This goblet was NOT a kit....the LOML spent some hours running around town buying various styles of goblets and bringing them home for me to evaluate as possible candidates for this project. I selected this one because of it's shape and size......

I called the engraver and she said she could engrave it without the original glass stem attached. So...I bought a new glass cutter....etched a line around the stem about 3/4" below the bowl of the goblet and snapped it off. I chose the 3/4" length as I wanted that much for adhesive to adhere the glass to the wood stem. My original wood of choice was cherry that I had. I debated flairing the mating surface as suggested but I had couple concerns caused me to decide against it......1) Putting a nicely shaped flair would have improved the look of the turning but would have detracted from the glass and the engraving.........2) I was concerned about the strength of the cherry when turned that thin ..... the thickness of the remaining portion of the glass stem was such and the weight of the glass goblet was such that thinning out that portion would weaken it and I didn't want the wood to fail. Thus... the top mating portion of the goblet stem was intentionally allowed to look like a candle stick.

It turned out the engraver couldn't engrave it without the stem so....we bought 3 more.......she engraved all 3 and that gave me 3 chances to break the stem off one without damaging the bowl of the goblet. Turns out I was able to remove the stem successfully from an engraved goblet on the first attempt.

I debated making the foot a smaller diameter but didn't want the goblet to be prone to tipping over so I elected not to make the foot pedestal a smaller diameter and in fact, kept it the same diameter as the glass original.

The fillet near the middle of the stem......I put it there to give the person holding the goblet (even though it won't be held much) something to grasp between fingers and provide more control over it. I only wish I'd made it a little smaller in diameter...the fillet that is..........

I broke the original cherry stem while buffing it out on the Beal buffing system......The 2nd cherry stem broke while I was roughing it out....I knew I was in trouble with that one as it was still wet and smelling of DNA....So..I drove to Spokane and bought cherry and tigerwood. The tigerwood is an unbelieveably dense wood and I really enjoyed working with it.

For adhesive I used Clear GE Silicon II as recommended by the "this to that" website as the strongest adhesive. I also etched 2 lines around 3/4" stub of the glass stem.....the lines were to provide a rough surface for the adhesive.

In short..........most of the suggestions.......I had considered and in this case ..........form followed function.............My daughter and SIL loved it........I'm happy!

And as a lesson in critiquing.........Thanks........I appreciated the comments......I'll keep them in mind when I work on the next one.....yes....I've got a couple of somewhat different designs planned.

Thanks again for the comments!