Computer Upgrading - the "Process"

[Todd Burch]

My friends recently bought a new PC at my suggestion.

Their disk drive (10gb) had filled up, and their PC (Dell) was not configured internally to support a second internal harddrive, they didn't have enough USB ports as it was (to dedicate an external drive - nor had they the counterspace), they had a 15" tube monitor, and the speed was well under 1ghz, no CD write capability (just diskette), yada, yada, yada. So, after explaining it all to them, they bit the bullet and upgraded.

They did not want to have 2 PC's, but it was paramount to copy all the old data to the new PC - applications and data both. (outlook mailboxes, address books, photo albums, office documents, internet favorities, itunes, blah, blah, blah)

The new PC arrived (Dell again) and I put it together. I first tried a cross-over cable to network the two PCs, and could not get it to work. Both were running Win XP Pro. I had sharings issues and who knows what else. (and popus telling me to contact my network adminstrator for help - what the heck is up with that???!!! I *AM* the network adminstrator!!)


Then, I took my router hub over and tried to network using that. I could not get that to work either (in hindsight, it was probably because I had set a hard coded DNS address when trying to get the crossover cable working).

So, I ended up taking the harddrive out of the old PC and adding it as a secondary drive to the new PC. This was fast and worked great. I still have to get a cage for the old drive, but it's working and they are up and running with their critical data. Therefore, my job over there is still not complete.

<rant>
Then, you have to fight all the bundled CR@P software that insists on being the most important application running on the new PC. GO AWAY trial version, special edition, limited function, free-for-30-day software that makes the PC boot up soooooo slowwwwwwww!!
</rant>

So, with all that... here's my question...

What do "most people" do when they buy a new PC? Do they start over? Do they hire a geek? Do they find a sucker like me to copy all their data over? Do they keep the first computer alive and upgrade their network and keep the old PC for it's data?

My point being is this - copying applications and data from an old PC to a new PC is not a trivial process. I'm fairly PC literate and it was a pain and time consuming process for me.

So, what's the deal??? Todd

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tod...........a few years ago when I upgraded I just set them up on a network with a hub......enabled sharing and tranferred the important files.

[Mark Rios]

On a Mac you start up the old computer and put it into what's called "Target Disk Mode" and connect the two computers with a Firewire cable. Then, after starting the new computer, the old one simply shows up on the new computers desktop as an external hardrive. Copying then takes place by simple drag-and-drop. Very quick and easy. I'm not sure if something like this is available on the PC or not.

[Bob Childress]

I have typically networked them with a hub and moved the files around where I wanted them. If things get too tense, I just wait until my Geek SIL comes to visit and I sic him on it.:D

I have three PCs running networked now and two of them are "hand me downs" from upgrading.

[Ian Barley]

Todd - I hate upgrading. I assume that it is going to take at least a week of evenings to sort the new machine into anything like reasonable performance. I have a 40gb USB external drive that has .CAB files for most of my software and then to use that as both a backup and a machanism for installs. But the simple fact is that there is no good option. Messy, messy, messy.

[Jim Becker]

I backup the data files, checking CAREFULLY to be sure I get them all, clean up the new machine (remove all the so-called trials, etc., even if that requires reloading the OS from scratch... ;) ), load all my applications and the restore the date to the new machine. I've started to archive a lot of data (mostly photos, etc.) on an external USB harddrive and that should make the next upgrade easier, whenever that ends up being...

[Todd Burch]

Yes, but I only had a 3.5" diskette mechanism for backing up! I figured about a good sized metal pail bucket to hold all the diskettes, not mention the hassles with any file over 1.22MB.

It appears the consensus is starting to be what I had predicted - it is not a trivial process. (Well, the Mac sounds easy enough).

The preferred solution (fastest, easiest, most no brainer) I have typically used has been to network the two (or more) together. Doing that, there is no immediate need to transfer any data or programs, and you can easily move stuff as you wish and at your leisure.

Any other ideas?

[Ken Garlock]

As some (in)famous politican once said, 'I feel your pain.'

I bought a new Dell for my wife back in June. Fortunately I had cat-5 outlets all over the house, so I patched the new machine into the network. I had some of the same problems you had but was able to get the needed files by getting the old machine C drive mounted to the new machine. I have slept on how I did it, and would have to 'mess around' again to duplicate the connection. Half the battle is getting rid of the Dell 'computers for dummies' stuff that keeps wanting to help you. :rolleyes:

One thing I did do was install Drive Image on the new system and backed the entire system up to a stand-alone usb drive. Last week, a virus got into her machine and stepped on XPpro. I just booted from the Drive Image CD and proceeded to lay down the image from June. Not what you would call current, but it was one heck of a lot better than starting from scratch.:)

[Joe Pelonio]

Todd,

Your problem is that it was at someone else's house. I'd just add the new one to the home network. If they didn't have a lot of files you could have used a large capacity flash drive, just pop it into the usb ports, copy as much as will fit, pop it into the new one's usb. Also, internal CD R/W drives are so cheap now that it might have been worth adding one to the old PC to be able to backup on CDs. The crossover cable thing requires some setting up that could be tricky. You might have found free help on a PC tech help forum.

[Curt Harms]

I use a file synchronizing program and portable media, USB external Hard Drive and USB "stick drive". Rather than having file sharing enabled and risking sharing malware, I have a data directory with my important stuff in it on all machines. Periodically I synchronize between one machine and the portable media, attach the portable media to another machine, sync that and go back to the first machine and resync. That way, if both machines got zapped, I still have the portable USB media. This same USB media can copy files to a new machine.

For Email, I use Thunderbird and set it to leave messages on the ISP's server until I delete them. That way, I have a remote archive for email messages.So far, that's worked. There is a program that will back up data and profiles in Thunderbird. I haven't used it.

I also use imaging software to image the OS partition periodically. That way, if the OS partition gets nuked, I can restore the latest image and I'm back to where I was when the image was created with all settings, apps, email etc. A disk image wouldn't work on a new machine unless it were substantially identical to the old machine which would be unlikely. One thing to remember with images; remember the passwords If you don't know the passwords, life gets complicated.

Worth what You paid for it

Curt

[Art Mulder]

It appears the consensus is starting to be what I had predicted - it is not a trivial process. (Well, the Mac sounds easy enough).

...

Any other ideas?

I mostly support Unix at work. At home I have a Mac system (my Wife's), and a Linux system (mine). I have carefully cultivated the image among my friends that I "don't know windows", so I have actually been fairly mercifully spared having anyone ask me to "fix their machines".

(except for my Father-in-law. He still will call me long distance and ask about some problem, about twice a year. Of course he has Win XP. And he uses Outlook. Sigh)


That said... this is what I do in Linux: Disks are so big these days, that I try to always set up my system with at least three disk partitions. I make two identical system partitions of about 4-5 GB, and one Data partition which is the rest of the disk. This way I have TWO system partitions, and one Data partition. I then configure my system so that all my personal info is on the Data partition. When I upgrade the OS, I will first clone the system partition to the other 4GB partition, then upgrade or wipe/install the main system partition. First, this gives me a fallback system partition if the upgrade fails. Second, it keeps all my user data OUT of the upgrade process.

Can you do something like that under Windows? Seems like it'd be a good idea.

When it comes to a forklift upgrade, then I would either move the drive over, like Todd did, or do the network copy approach.

Reminds me, I need a DVD burner soon... those digital picture libraries are getting HUGE.

(I first set this method up 4 years ago. If I was to start from scratch now, I'd make sure that the system partitions were at least 10GB, since OS software is growing at an alarming rate)

[Andy Fox]

Here is the strategy I try to follow, although some of them wouldn't have helped Todd any:

1. Keep as much data as possible in a single folder, such as My Documents when using Windows. Note that if you have multiple logins/usernames to the computer, each user might have their own My Documents folder. You'll still have to grab those other stray files like email mailboxes, browser favorites, and files you create with programs that like to save in their own Program Files folder.

2. Backup or just copy the data to a CD (700 MB max) or DVD+R (4.7 GB max) (+R is better than -R format). Don't write directly on anything but the clear spindle portion of the CD/DVD. For even faster transfer, but a less reliable long-term backup, use an external hard drive. Some backup software can allow files to span multiple CD's or DVD's, but I just use a straight copy. I'm a software developer, so I often don't trust software for anything critical. :rolleyes: :o

3. Keep the old machine around for at least a few months. You probably forgot to copy something. :rolleyes: I still have my old one from when I upgraded 3 years ago. :o

[Nick Zentena]

If you think it's bad now try doing it with a serial cable :eek:

Usually by the time I'm ready to move to a new computer the old one has had a HD upgrade. That means I've done at least one data move.

I keep an old PC around that gets all the obsolete parts. When I need to upgrade I just dump everything onto that box. With the network setup it's relatively painless.

With you not being able to get the machines to talk to each other I would have plugged a DVD or at least CD writer into the old box. Even if it meant sitting it on the bench. Once you've got the data safe then you can unplug the writer.

I'm not sure how well using a /home would work under windows. I get the impression windows programs just dump data files into strange locations of thier own choosing.

One thing is to make sure anything important gets backed up when it's created. It's a pain but you can do it up front or spend 10X the effort later dealing with the mess that always seems to happen.

[Jon Eckels]

What I do, and I find it's the easiest method - When I get a new computer I like to start with a fresh new operating system so I leave alone what is on the hard drive and i install my old hard drive as a secondary hard drive on the new computer. This way, I always have access to my old files. After a year or two, I've transferred everything that I've actually needed to keep, so I don't fill up space on the new hard drive with old crap that I'm holding on to (and taking up disk space with) for no reason.

Then, the NEXT time I get a new computer, I do the same thing again. although now the hard drive that's now two generations old, gets stored away in a box. I never throw away old harddrives, for two reasons. 1.) In case I need to find something really old. and 2.) A lot of personal information can be recovered off of a hard drive.

I always build my own, but you could do the same with a store-bought or Dell.

[Jim O'Dell]

Very timely thread for me. I'm upgrading my wifes computer. New MB, CPU and cooler, HD, power supply, memory, and OS. I'm going from an old system running Win98SE and an ATA HD, to a Dual Core processor running XP Home and a SATA HD. I believe the new MB has aa hook up for the regular (old) ATA HD I'm pulling out and hope I can put both in and transfer files that way. But I will load the OS first, then load the programs in before transferring any data. I will also have back up on DVD before starting. If all else fails, I can put her old HD in my computer and try to pull throught the network if I need to. First I've got to get her started on doing the back up...so far she has other, more pressing, things to do first. Jim.

[Chris Padilla]

Then, the NEXT time I get a new computer, I do the same thing again. although now the hard drive that's now two generations old, gets stored away in a box. I never throw away old harddrives, for two reasons. 1.) In case I need to find something really old. and 2.) A lot of personal information can be recovered off of a hard drive.

Just keep 'em away from strong magnetic fields! You have them in a lead or iron box by chance? ;)

[Frank Fusco]

Too bad. Trying to do current day computing with minimalist equipment is an exercise in frustration. By todays standards those are obsolete boxes. In a few months MS Vista will be out and a basic home computer will the latest dual core gee-whiz processor, 1 gig of memory and a Yankee stadium sized hard drive. I'm itching to buy a laptop but will defer until Vista and Vista capable machines are available.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

What do "most people" do when they buy a new PC?
Drive image
and
Tieramisue

[Jim O'Dell]

I started looking at my computer to back things up, and I have a question hopefully someone here will know. How do I backup/save the messages in the inbox, sent files? I use Netscape 7.0 on one machine and 7.2 on the other. I found how to export the bookmarks to another file so I can save them, then import them back into the computer after upgrading, but I see nothing on the inbox and sent files. And I can't find the information on either C or D drives to back them up. I'm sure I'm missing it somewhere, but if I can't save them, I will not be the LOML's LOHL any more! Hopefully the new computer will take an ATA and a SATA drive at the same time and I can just imprt them from one drive to the other but if that doesn't work, I need another plan in place. TIA! Jim.

[Damien Falgoust]

This is a big reason why I build my own PCs rather than buy from Dell, etc. -- getting rid of all the crap they shovel on there is a huge pain. Buy the parts, slap 'em together, and only put what YOU want on it from the get-go.

[Frank Hagan]

This is a big reason why I build my own PCs rather than buy from Dell, etc. -- getting rid of all the crap they shovel on there is a huge pain. Buy the parts, slap 'em together, and only put what YOU want on it from the get-go.

After my computer crash last year, I bought my second Dell (I had always built my own before that). I didn't have a transfer problem this time because my drive had crashed, but it still took quite a while to get all the junk off the Dell computer. I couldn't believe all the stuff they put on it.

I'll never buy from Dell or any other computer company again because of that. Its more expensive to build from scratch, but I'll go back to that from now on.

One good thing about the new system: I opted for a dual hard drive system that mirrors so I have two copies of everything .... a RAID level 1 system, I think ... so a single hard drive crash won't be such a problem next time. Of course, any virus problem, etc. on one drive is also on the other, so its not as good a solution as frequent backups. But I've never had a back up that is fresh enough to not be a major hassle when a crash happens.

[Damien Falgoust]

One good thing about the new system: I opted for a dual hard drive system that mirrors so I have two copies of everything .... a RAID level 1 system, I think ... so a single hard drive crash won't be such a problem next time. Of course, any virus problem, etc. on one drive is also on the other, so its not as good a solution as frequent backups. But I've never had a back up that is fresh enough to not be a major hassle when a crash happens. Another point to consider about RAID: both HDDs are in the same enclosure, and thus susceptible to some common hazards. Also, if the HDDs are from the same manufacturer and the same production run, they may share the same flaws, ie, they may be prone to failure at the same time.

Unless your PC is running mission-critical apps that cannot go down for even a small period of time under any circumstances, you may want to consider pulling that second hard drive, slapping it into a USB/Firewire enclosure, and doing periodic backups onto it that are kept in a different location from the PC itself.

[Chuck Wintle]

This is a big reason why I build my own PCs rather than buy from Dell, etc. -- getting rid of all the crap they shovel on there is a huge pain. Buy the parts, slap 'em together, and only put what YOU want on it from the get-go.
I have built all of my own computers plus several for friends and have learned a lot because of that. It's easier to upgrade a home built machine than it would be to upgrade a Dell. Of course it is a little more expensive but not too bad.:D

[Nick Zentena]

I think if you compare like to like prices are equal and often cheaper then the big box companies. At least locally.

The HP I bought because it was on sale is a good example.

The motherboard is short 1 memory socket,I think two card slots when compared to the normal retail version of the same motherboard from Asus.

I personally would never have built a machine like this. I would have gotten a better MB. The thing has a DVD writer and a CD reader?? I guess HP had some extra readers sitting around and stuck them in computers. It didn't have much memory from the factory. If I had built it I wouldn't have had to upgrade it. Plus the lousy onboard video I had to replace.

[Randy Long]

Hi,
I work in the IT field. What I have found is that most home computer user do struggle with setting up new computers and transfering files. It is not a simple process no mater what the PC sellers say.

Bad:
Most computers are sold with a single hard drive with a single partition, in my opinion this is the worst possable situation for the user.

Better:
A better situation would be to have two partitions on the hard drive, C: for the operating system and D: for the user files.

Best:
The best situation would be two hard drives for seperation on the os and the user files.

With the last two casses you can reload the operating system or fix problems without endangering your files.

Keep in mind that applications can not be simply transfered from one computer to another. They need to be reinstalled on the new computer and for that you need the install disks.

[Andy Fox]

One good thing about the new system: I opted for a dual hard drive system that mirrors so I have two copies of everything .... a RAID level 1 system, I think ... so a single hard drive crash won't be such a problem next time.

RAID 1 slows performance some though. Because I do some home video processing (and don't mind living on the edge), I opted for RAID 0 to boost write performance. The data is striped across 2 7200 rpm SATA hard drives, so if either fail, it's gone. Anything critical that I spend more than a day on gets backed up to CD or DVD immediately. The drives are nearing 3 years old, so I'm starting to be more obsessive about backups.

[Al Willits]

My wife and I have each a computer and they "talk" quite easily though the router we use, but I did run into a friend who did what you are trying and couldn't get them to communicate.
He was lucky enough to have a spare port and I hooked the old hard drive up to the new computer and ended up transfering the data from one HD to the other...may work for you??

I don't remember if the new comp saw the old HD by itself or I had to go into the system to do it..sorry
Al

[Steven Wilson]

Todd, read this http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1819031,00.asp . Our work group has some of these tools around that we share. When I upgrade my work machine I usually perform reinstalls of the basic applications (all of Office, SQL Server, Oracle, Sybase, ERWin, .NET everything) and then move settings using some of the tools. I always run multiple partitions and leave basic installs on C and all settings on D . On my home PC's I will re-partition the drive for two partitions (use Partition Magic or similar) before configuring.

[Boyd Gathwright]

.... Interesting points of view and approaches.


Happy Computing :).

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