Blum Cabinet Hinge Question

[Larry Fox]

I am getting to the point where I will soon be drilling the cup holes in the doors I have made for my kitch cabinet project. The cabinets will have a face-frame and the doors are full overlay with and 1/2 overlay. The Blum compact-33 *seems* to be the de-facto standard hinge for this type of application. In looking at installation instructions, it says the boar distance (distance from edge of door to edge of cup hole) is 1/8" and the hole needs to be 1/2" deep. This seems REALLY close to the edge. The doors will get an edge treatment and I am concerned that the cup hole will come through the front at the edge treatment (doors are 3/4" thick). It just does not seem to allow much wiggle room and seems a bit limiting in terms of edge treatments you can apply.

I should also mention that this is my first set of cabinets so sorry if the answers to some of these questions are obvious.

So, my questions are these;

1) Do you guys who do this type of work on a regular basis drill at 1/8" or do you give yourself some room? If you give room, does it impact the operation of the hinge.
2) Is there another hinge that is of good to very good quality that you would recommend over the Blum? These cabinets are for my home so I am willing to spend the $$ if necessary.

Below is a link to the edge treatment I am using (profile on the right).

http://www.cmtusa.com/store/index1.ihtml?x_page=store.ihtml&id=CID4481953819&step=2&parentid=&menuinclude=leftnav_products.ihtml

Thanks in advance for your time

[Jamie Buxton]

The Blum 120 degree cliptop is my standard hinge. One issue with the Compact 33 face-frame hinge is that there is a gap between the door and the face frame. As I recall, it is a real fat eighth. If you only see the cabinet from the front, you won't notice. If you see it from the side, that gap may bother you. If the gap does bother you, you can use the standard (non-face-frame) hinges with a little more work.

Yes, I bore the cup holes very close to the edge of the door. I use a template and a plunge router to get the holes exactly where I want them.

If you do not bore the cup hinge where Blum says, the overlay will be different than what you want.

[Larry Fox]

Yeah - I saw a display at local Woodcraft with the Compact 33 and noticed the same thing about the gap. I thought it was just that they did not have them set right. The gap does bother me. As I mentioned, these are for my home and I will look at them every day and I don't want something like that to bug me - which it will.

I was originally looking at the clip-tops and may go back and give them a second look based on Jamie's comments and the fact that they allow for a longer bore distance.

[Ed Labadie]

If you put the cork cushions on the doors, so they don't "bang" when they close, the doors set flat.

Ed

[Jamie Buxton]

I've never used the Blum Compact 38 face frame hinge, but according to the spec sheet it does have the in/out adjustment which the Compact 33 lacks. However, it does require the face frame to be 3/4" thick.

[Larry Fox]

Humm - another option to look into. My face-frames are 3/4" thick so I am covered there. Thanks Jamie, I will look into them.

[Jeff Monson]

Larry, I just finished my kitchen and used the blum hinges you are looking at, I went closer to 1/4" on the cup distance to the edge of the door, my doors were 3/4" thick also but with no edge treatment, the adjustment for center gap on the doors is alot so going out another 1/8" isnt a problem. I still had lots of adjustment so it really doesnt change your overlay on the sides as you can adjust it out if you are concerned with edge treatment.

the door does stick out a little and this is also adjustable, but once the bumpers are on the doors its a perfect gap all the way across. I really like these hinges as they are completely adjustable and super quiet.

[Gary McKown]

Check out the Mepla hinge collection at McFeely's. I found what I needed there to build doors for a roll-around island to match the deeply-molded frames in the existing kitchen (minimal depth for hinge cups). I think the Blums would have worked, but barely. The Meplas allowed a margin for error. They are multi-adjustable, too.

[James Biddle]

The Blum 120 degree cliptop is my standard hinge. One issue with the Compact 33 face-frame hinge is that there is a gap between the door and the face frame. As I recall, it is a real fat eighth. If you only see the cabinet from the front, you won't notice. If you see it from the side, that gap may bother you. If the gap does bother you, you can use the standard (non-face-frame) hinges with a little more work.

Yes, I bore the cup holes very close to the edge of the door. I use a template and a plunge router to get the holes exactly where I want them.

If you do not bore the cup hinge where Blum says, the overlay will be different than what you want.

I agree with Jamie, the Blum Cliptop is much better. Either the 107 or 120 degree or the newer zero protusion if you have inside drawers. That's what I prefer to use for myself or high-end cabinets. The hole needs to be drilled 5mm from the edge (or 17.5mm to the center) for a 1/2" overlay, depending on the mounting bracket.

Regardless of the hinge you use, be VERY careful about which door edge treatment to use. Most router/shaper bit manufactureres now identify those bits that are compatible with cup hinges. Run a test first just to be sure it works in your application.

[Charlie Plesums]

I often use the Blum Cliptop 120 degree hinges, but normally on frameless rather than face frame cabinets. Be careful about moving the hole farther from the edge than they specify - I tried that once and the door rubbed against the cabinet as it was opening.

My favorite door edge profile is this one, www.woodline.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=67 (http://www.woodline.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=67), which does work with Blum hinges... the door goes through the cutter face down, and it only cuts the sides back 1/8 inch (3.2 mm) on the back, leaving 1.8 mm to the edge of the hole if you plan on a 1/2 inch overlay. That profile gives enough slope to open the door without a handle if desired, and an attractive decoration on the front of the door.

I hate the way Blum puts the holes so close to the edges, but they didn't ask me.

[Guy Fuson]

Larry,
This is what I do, cabinets. I used to use blum now use grass with an eco-press. But they work the same. I go 1/8" - 3/16" from edge, if you go any further you run the risk of the edge rubbing on the face frame when opening. There is adjustments on the hinges but only so much. Don't worry the 1/2" depth is right. If worried you can always measure the cup depth to be sure but it won't go through.

Guy

[Larry Fox]

Thanks to everyone for all the quick and informative replies - really helps and the time is much appreciated. I think that I am going to go with the Clip-Tops as several have suggested. I looked at them and they do look quite nice. I am going to run some tests this weekend with various edge profiles to see which one works / looks the best and go from there.

L

[Mike Christopher]

The hole needs to be drilled 5mm from the edge (or 17.5mm to the center) for a 1/2" overlay, depending on the mounting bracket

I am using the same 120 clip top hinges on my cabinets. and I just wanted to be sure about the distance to drill the hole in from the edge of the door.
the store I bought them from told me to drill a 35mm hole 3/16" in from the edge of the door. that would give me 1/2" overlay and adjustable to 3/4 overlay.

I built my doors so they have 1/2" overlay with 0 center gap. The 1/4" adjustment will let me add whatever gap is needed for the doors to open without rubbing.

Is that correct?

Blum makes hardware, but I can't understand why they need to make all their instructions so complicated.

[Jim McFarland]

<snip> told me to drill a 35mm hole 3/16" in from the edge of the door. <snip>

3/16" seems a bit too close to the edge for me, especially if you route a profile on the outside door edge. I use 6.1mm (0.24", 31/128" -- all approximate) and can adjust from ~ 1/2" to near 3/4" overlay with a 0 height CLIP mounting plate in the cabinet box. You can also get 3mm (or more, IIRC) mounting plates if you need less of an overlay than the hinge adjustments give you. I buy all my BLUM hardware from AHTurf...mounting plate page:

http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=256_270_682

I agree Blum offers options to a fault for me (I'm just an average handyman -- not a pro cabinet maker!).

[John Nesmith]

Check out the Mepla hinge collection at McFeely's. I found what I needed there to build doors for a roll-around island to match the deeply-molded frames in the existing kitchen (minimal depth for hinge cups). I think the Blums would have worked, but barely. The Meplas allowed a margin for error. They are multi-adjustable, too.

I looked around Mcfeely's and could not find the hinge you are recommending. Can you provide a link please?

Thanks.

[John TenEyck]

As some others have said, don't go changing the specified bore distance or the door will rub when you try to open it and even refuse to open if you bore too far from the edge. I believe the distance is small so that you can use narrow stiles, if desired, but that's just a guess. With Blum hinges, for sure with the Compact series, and I think with all of them, the specified overlay is the maximum amount, and the adjustment range is minus from that maximum. So if you buy a hinge with 1/2" overlay, that's as far as it will overlay the faceframe if you use the specified bore distance. The Blum Compact hinges project off the faceframe about 3/16", which does leave a noticeable gap when viewed from the side. The Clip top hinges normally used on frameless cabinets project less and look better, but the downside of them is that you have to use an adapter that projects back into the cabinet a couple of inches behind the faceframe. That's pretty ugly IMO, but those are the choices you have to decide on. Another advantage of the Clip hinges is that you can set doors closer together (called the "reveal"). Normally, this isn't an issue with doors on faceframes but it could be depending upon your design. All this info, and a lot more, is on Blum's website.

[Dylan Borcoli]

The Blum Compact hinges project off the faceframe about 3/16", which does leave a noticeable gap when viewed from the side.

Yes, I learned this firsthand when we tried Blum Compact hinges on our full overlay cabinets. They looked awful from the side profile with the large 3/16" gap. To be honest I have no idea why Blum even sells these hinges, it must be for cabinets that are never viewed from the side profile. We ended up making major modifications to the cabinet face frame to accomodate the superior clip-top hinges, but that was not easy. In retrospect, we should have simply selected Euro style for the cabinet frame which works perfect with clip-top hinges and avoids this mess.