cooperage tools

[Frank Fusco]

Yesterday somebody was asking about cooperage tools. I can't find the thread so am starting this one. Coincidentially, in an antique shop I found one for sale. Handle broke but is usable. Price was $50.00. Then this a.m. I stumbled across this web site that might be helpful:
http://www.mwtca.org/ click on 'dealers'.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I am still trying to figure a way to make staves using a router setup.

[Chuck Nickerson]

is doable with the Lee Valley router bits called either 'birds beak' or 'birds mouth'. Buying the set of three will let you do 6, 8, 12, and 16-sided vessels. It took me a little time to get the hang of tapering the vessels, but that's just me. For smoothing the inside and outside, I don't know (yet) of a way to do that with a router.

[Tom Andersen]

This is not exactly what the originator of the thread had in mind but anybody interested in coopering who reads German can find an excellent treatment in a reprinted book from 1949:

Herbert Kindler: Der Boettcher und Kuefer

http://www.deutschesfachbuch.de/info/detail.php?PHPSESSID=54085c84a2c61960742c81d9f584d fa0&isbn=3878706790&PHPSESSID=54085c84a2c61960742c81d9f584dfa0

Coopering is a lot of work though, I've given up....

[Frank Fusco]

I believe Roy Underhill has something on the craft also. I have an old video where he has a guest making small barrels and canteens. The explanation of how to make the taper is something like, "ya just do it". Very imprecise. Probably a learned eyeball thing.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

is doable [...] 'birds beak' or 'birds mouth'. [...] 6, 8, 12, and 16-sided vessels.

I'm thinking nope. because the barrel shape is a curve that is fat in the middle. This would require the stave to have its angle variable along the length starting from the middle. This is a more complex geomerty than a straight taper.

A traditional barrel is assembled by soaking the staves in water, placing the soaking wet staves inside a hoop so that they all stand up and the last stave is pounded in. Then the barrel is heated on the inside with fire drying the staves on the inside and swelling the outsoide. The staves are inclined to curve inward. At that point the second hoop is pounded onto the staves bringing them together in a tight group. then the other staves are pounded in place. After that the barrel gets a real firing inside to create the charcoal skin the vintners or whisky makers ordered.



It took me a little time to get the hang of tapering the vessels, but that's just me.

But this part caught my interest. Are you doing straight tapers or compound curves? If you can get a true barrel shape I want to know everything you are doing.




For smoothing the inside and outside, I don't know (yet) of a way to do that with a router.

Use a lathe type set up and a trak sander for the outsides. The so called lathe can be nothing more than a roller assembly if you are willing to let it roll manually. Or you could compress the ends between two platens and spin them on a central mandril.

Inside is going to be harder but starting wiht a high finish and a tight fit as you make the staves you may need very little finish work. You can spin the barrel clamped in a fixture but the inside sanding will most likely have to be done with a flexible disk on a drill or other disk sander/grinder tool. Alternately it can be hand scraped (more work than I'd like).

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The explanation of how to make the taper is something like, "ya just do it". Very imprecise. Probably a learned eyeball thing.

Yipper. There are machines that do it. The older ones are fairly complex and I have not seen enough images of them to quite get my head around what they are doing but, I bet it involves lead screws and cams. Maybe even hypoidal sinusoidal cams
I am sure that with jigs and fistures it should be totally doable.
I have tried to entertain a router suspended on a shaft following a pattern. but there is a variable second curve that must be produced. However the router has to change angle of attack without losing the work piece ARRRRGGGGHHH

[Frank Fusco]

Yipper. There are machines that do it. The older ones are fairly complex and I have not seen enough images of them to quite get my head around what they are doing but, I bet it involves lead screws and cams. Maybe even hypoidal sinusoidal cams
I am sure that with jigs and fistures it should be totally doable.
I have tried to entertain a router suspended on a shaft following a pattern. but there is a variable second curve that must be produced. However the router has to change angle of attack without losing the work piece ARRRRGGGGHHH

I'll have to go back to college to read yer post. ;) Isn't that hypodial thingy a disease? :confused: Enneyhow, the guy on my Roy Underhill video is just using draw knives and shaving bench. No sinusee thingys involved.

[Doug Shepard]

Yipper. There are machines that do it. The older ones are fairly complex and I have not seen enough images of them to quite get my head around what they are doing but, I bet it involves lead screws and cams. Maybe even hypoidal sinusoidal cams
I am sure that with jigs and fistures it should be totally doable.
I have tried to entertain a router suspended on a shaft following a pattern. but there is a variable second curve that must be produced. However the router has to change angle of attack without losing the work piece ARRRRGGGGHHH

Heck - I could do a tapered one with my eyes closed. All I have to do is try really, really hard to make a perfectly straight one. It's bound to come out tapered every time.:D