PDA

View Full Version : Allow myself to introduce myself



Steve McKee
08-16-2006, 12:37 PM
Hello, I'd like to take a minute to introduce myself. My name is Steve McKee and I, along with my wife Jeannie, are in the process of starting our own laser business. First of all I would like to say how glad I am that I found this site, what a wonderful knowledge base for a newbie to have access to. I don't think you could buy this kind of help from so many friendly people with all sorts of ideas. I hope to be able to "repay" some of what I've learned someday when I have more experience and know what I'm talking about. I have been "lurking" here for a few days, reading some of the messages and getting a LOT of ideas, supplier information, etc. Looking forward to reading more of the posts, only up to page 9 of 45, I've got a lot of reading yet to do.

I do have one question, for those of you who laser engrave photos. How do you deal with photos that are copyrighted? As I understand it most, probably all, professional photographs are copyrighted, Glamour Shots, Olan Mills, etc. not to mention wedding photographers and the like. So what do you do if someone gives you a photograph that is copyrighted? Do you need to contact the photographer for permission to use it? Just curious at this point as I do not yet have my laser, though I will soon(hopefully).

Steve

Phyllis Meyer
08-16-2006, 1:09 PM
Hi Steve & Jeannie,

Welcome to the forum...or as I say "GOD'S GIFT". The best information here, great folks willing to share ideas, information, business know how, and the best reading around:)! Best wishes on your new venture!

Sincerely,

Phyllis Meyer (One state over...A cheesehead):D

Barbara Buhse
08-16-2006, 2:10 PM
Welcome Steve and Jeanine...

As far as your question about photos, I borrowed something from my (very short lived) carreer selling yellow page ads... I have a small disclaimer on my order form which the customer must sign that basically says they own the photo or have permission to use it.
Its stated simply enough... here's what it says.

The photograph you send us should be your own property and not copyrighted or owned by anyone else. By signing here, you are giving us permission to use the photograph that either belongs to you or is a photo which you have received permission to use.

Its in plain language so everyone understands. If there is still a question in my mind, I ask for a different photo.

I'm not an expert on copyright, so maybe its not enough, but I hope this helps.

Barbara

Dave Jones
08-16-2006, 7:37 PM
The only problem with that wording is that if somebody buys a photo or print then in their mind they "own it", which is true of the physical photo, but they don't own the copyright to it.

Joe Pelonio
08-17-2006, 8:39 AM
Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

Some colleges/JCs offer saturday/evening classes that are helpful. It took
one on "selling your artwork" that had a section on copyright law. They also offer an all day class just on that but have not had time to get to it yet.

You do have to be cautious. If you are doing a one-up gift for grandma with a baby picture on it the chances of being caught for copyright infringement is slight to none. If you are producing products for sale in stores, at craft show/fairs, or online, you have to be very careful. Professional photographers are very sensitive to this. The best thing is to take your own photos. You can freely use any pictures in a program that you bought such as Corel and Word, or you can buy photos from a royalty-free website.

When a customer brings in a picture with a watermark or other copyright identifier on it, you must have written permission from that same photographer/company. I wouldn't contact them myself, I'd have the customer seek the permission, because they are likely to charge for
it (and grant only this specific one time use.)

James Aldrich
08-17-2006, 9:51 AM
I have spoken with a couple of lawyers on the issue of a form for people to sign to protect myself from copyright photos. I was told that you cannot waive copyright infringement. The form would only help you build a case against the person that signed the release, in the event a lawsuit was filed against you for reproducing a copyright photo. Also on royalty-free pictures, you need to read the fine print. In most cases you have the right to use the picture for craft projects, memos, letterheads etc. However, if the image will be reproduced in large volumes, or on items which will be sold, then written permission may be needed. Many art books including dover, has copyright notices on the books and cd's.
Jim

Joe Pelonio
08-17-2006, 2:05 PM
James,

You are correct, terms of use are very specific. Buying an image from a royalty free website is expensive, but in many cases allows you to use the image on items for sale without paying royalties which are a percentage of every item sold. It may or may not be worth the price.

Dover sells what they call "royalty free" books of clipart and other art, but you have to read the fine print in the inside front. I just looked at one I have. They forbid using more than 10 images from the book on one project, and have the following confusing wording (I have e-mailed them for clarification):
..."However republication or reproduction of any illustration by any other graphic service whether it be in a book or in any other design resource is strictly prohibited."

That seems to be meant to prevent people form reselling the graphics to
crafters in other forms such as a CD collection, but could also mean that the person buying the book cannot use them as we would on laser products, if we are considered a "graphic service". In that case what good would the books be to anyone? I'll report back if they answer.

Mitchell Andrus
08-17-2006, 3:06 PM
Much of the newest copyright/release/use law comes from the case Peggy Lee brought against Disney when they released "Lady and the Tramp" on VHS cassette in the 80's.

Disney thought they had compensated Lee to the fullest when the movie had been released in the theaters in the 60's. Lee's contract included text that was worded to include all distribution of the movie in any form. The courts held that the contract could be interpeted to include new formats, and Disney's release on tape was a brand new use and required new compensation, like worth million$ of dollar$ to dear Peggy... I don't remember where the case went, but it did cause a shift in focus in use law, and made many in Hollywood richer.

Most good "terms of use" will try to anticipate any future technologies as yet not thought of, hence the gobbledy-gook language that makes my eyes glaze over.

Truth is, it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Fly under the radar, and you'll be fine. The police aren't going to raid the church bazaar looking for a few coasters with a copyrighted picture of a labrador on them. Brad Pits' image borrowed from a movie poster might be a problem... Place an item for sale with a copyrighted image in a magazine ad, you're gonna get caught.

Mitch

Joe Pelonio
08-17-2006, 4:22 PM
Below is the response from Dover Publications. The "letter" is a word file that reads as if it is giving me permission.

Dear Mr. Pelonio:
Yes, you may take these non-exclusive, royalty free designs
and use them on your coasters, clocks, etc.

Please read the attached letter for more info on Dover's series of
books that contain these royalty free designs.

Terri Torretto
Rights & Permissions Dept.


The important line in the letter is below in black, which is what I thought.

Rubber stamps are interesting, you can make rubber stamps, stamp things and sell them all you want, you just can't sell the stamps themselves without paying them $5/image.

The statement on the copyright page: However, republication or reproduction of any illustration by any other graphic service whether it be in a book or in any other design resource is strictly prohibited. means that you cannot use our Clip Art or Pictorial Archive material to become a publisher of clip art or pictorial archive illustrations. You may use our material to illustrate any sort of project but you may not use them to create products which are collections of illustrations for sale to others whether these are books, software, rubber stamps or in any other medium. To do this requires a licensing agreement with Dover.

Todd Jones
08-17-2006, 6:11 PM
Welcome I am also somwhat new to laser engraving and just started doing photos I have been reading this site for a year but just now signed up.
I love this site and the messages have helped me alot. as for photos I was told by someone that engraving photos was like an artistic interpitation of the picture and not a copy so they could be used. if I took a photo to an artest they could use it it paint a picture without a copyright violation. I and the person that told me this could be completely wrong. What do you think

Joe Pelonio
08-18-2006, 10:21 AM
I think you'd have to talk to a laywer about that. Engraved on some materials like wood or acrylic it might make sense, but on others like tile it's pretty much going to be an exact copy, just not in color.

Dave Jones
08-18-2006, 12:51 PM
If you look at a photo and paint a completely original work yourself then that is an original image and does not violate the copyright of the photo (assuming there is nothing trademarked in the photo, which is a whole different discussion).

But if you take that photo and print it or modify it and reproduce it then you are violating the copyright (if you don't have permission). It's an old wives tale that you can modify an image to some degree and it becomes a new image not covered by the copyright. This is completely false. If anything remains of the original image, no matter how distorted, cropped or modified, it is still covered by the original copyright.

You can shoot your own photo that looks the same. Or paint/draw something that looks the same. Neither of those violate the copyright of somebody else's photo. But if you rephotograph an original, or scan an original, or take the electronic form of the original and then print any portion of it on any medium (modified or not), it is still covered by the original copyright. Even if it doesn't look much like the original.