Another Olive Bowl

[Vaughn McMillan]

Here's another cracked olive bowl. This is my second "real" bowl, so I'm still learning. I got the walls a bit thinner than on my last bowl, but I still have room for improvement. It's about 3 1/2" tall by 5 1/2" wide. Even though it's cracked, this was a hard piece of wood. It about beat me to death just getting it round after drying. Sharp gouges seemed to bounce off of it. (But that could also be my rookie technique.) I ended up using a round-nosed scraper on the inside, and a skew for most of the outside. I filled the cracks with instant decaf epoxy, and a few touch-ups with CA and sanding dust, and although it's not perfect, the infill came out OK. It's sanded to 600 grit then friction polished with Myland's, and the outside was buffed with with White Diamond compound. I'm not completely happy with the form...I was going for a shape reminiscent of Native American pottery, but I didn't quite nail it. Once I went to the donut chuck (then a jam chuck, to do more cleanup), I was having some problems keeping it centered. Ah well, the fun of learning. ;)

I apologize in advance for the quality of the pictures...

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Comments and critiques are welcome. You can't be any more critical than I am already, so bring it on.

- Vaughn

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Vaughn, it looks to me like you did a great job with a challenging piece of wood. I'm glad you found a (in my humble opinion, the only) good use for instant decaf coffee---it does add to the character of the piece.

If I may, for a moment, on the form. The upper portion looks great---you can see the nice, flowing curvature especially in the second and third pics. The lower portion, however, almost looks slightly concave, and the transition seems a bit abrupt. Were it me, and if I knew what I was doing, I would go for a more aggressive convex bottom curve. This would result in a shorter bowl, but I believe it would keep the flow of the form.

Keep up the good work!

[Jim Becker]

Vaughn, you're doing good work. I also think you "see" that the form has some tweaks available to you. If you squint and look along the left edge of the fourth picture, you can see where your nice curve suddenly stops. (This is something you can do quite effectively while the piece is still on the lathe and spinning) There are a number of ways that it could have developed along the way, but if this piece were still on the lathe and not hollowed, one suggestion for improving the form would be like this:

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Sometimes in our excitement to turn a piece to completion, (and we ALL do this... ;) ) we jump to hollowing a bowl or vessel too soon. Step back and contemplate the piece before moving on to that. Make little adjustments with a shear cut or shear scrape here and there until you really have the exterior nailed. Only then move on to the inside.

And for form practice, take scrap stock and just start turning a bunch of forms...no hollowing as you're going for shape. Tweak them, part them off and paint them flat black. Put them on a shelf and look at them. Pick out the ones you like the best and do some more with minor variations, paint them and look again. Repeat as necessary until you have some sample forms to actually look at as you turn. Then, drill a hole in the center of the bottom so you can rig up a coat hanger "holder" that suspends the sample piece in spindle orientation with a white background behind it. (That way, you can examine the form without craning your neck as you work on the "real deal" at the lathe) Keep white and black cardstock available to hold behind your spinning piece if the area behind your lathe is "cluttered" so you can see the edges of the form as you contemplate adjustments.

Again, you are doing really good work...keep it going!

[Vaughn McMillan]

Thanks Henry and Jim. You both spotted a couple of the points that I was seeing as things that could change, too.

Jim, when I roughed out the green bowl, the outside shape was similar, but more aesthetic (to my eye). It was all a bit more angular, although I liked the proportions. When I did the finish turning to get it round again, a few poorly-placed catches made me tweak the shape in places I didn't want to tweak it. I may still try getting it centered in a jam chuck to see if I can do a bit more trimming, including Henry's suggestion, too. (I'm going to need to be vewy vewy caweful that I don't funnelize it while trimming up the bottom.) ;) Stay tuned and we'll see what the next day or so brings.

As for your other suggestion, Jim (about turning some silhouette practice shapes), it's a good one, but at this stage in the game, any stock that's big enough to fit on the lathe isn't "scrap". ;) :p :D

Thanks much guys -

- Vaughn

[Andy Hoyt]

Hey Vaughn - I agree with Henry and Jim. But what I also see are two well done forms. The bottom half and the top half. Each is good and warrants further experimentation. Just not on the same chunk of wood.

And my tired eyes only see bark inclusions - not cracks.

It's a keeper.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Nice bowl Vaughn. Jim and Henry hit the points I would have made. I like the idea of decaf with epoxy. Did you thin the epoxy Vaughn? Nice work on some hard wood.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Andy's points about two forms that should be on separate pieces (to which I concur) brings up a issue...on the two bowls I've done on the new lathe, I notice I have difficulties continuing the form when I switch from the jaw chuck to the donut to finish the bottom. I seem to get a noticable transition, which I end up trying to fix with the bowl in a jam chuck arrangement.

Any suggestions, or is it just a matter of practice?

Bernie, I used 5-minute epoxy with a smidgen of DNA to thin it. When I added the decaf (LOML's Taster's Choice -- I don't drink coffee) I tried to crush up the coffee nuggets a bit, but it was still a pretty granular mix. There were a couple spots that were a bit spongy after a day of curing, so I soaked them in thin CA and mashed a bit of sanding dust on top.

Thanks again, guys.

- Vaughn

[Stephen Hibbs]

I would suggest using the tailstock to center the bowl while you tighten the donut chuck. I was having the same problem as you, but I now hang the end of the donut chuck over the tailstock, jam chuck the bowl as I normally would, then attach the top of the donut chuck while still jammed, this gives better results and less wobble. I usually take the tailstock off before turning on the lathe, but if it's possible, I'll sometimes work around it at first.

[Andy Hoyt]

Vaughn - the other thing to bear in mind is that you should concentrate on getting the entire exterior form established at the very beginning of the finish cut process. While chucked for those cuts on the interior you shouldn't be moosing with the exterior at all.

And then when you're in the donut mode, you should only finesse the foot.

My guess is that the donut hole is largish and you're finessing more than just the foot; which is problematic because you can't see through the donut to reference the rest of the form.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Vaughn - the other thing to bear in mind is that you should concentrate on getting the entire exterior form established at the very beginning of the finish cut process. While chucked for those cuts on the interior you shouldn't be moosing with the exterior at all... On this bowl I was having trouble getting my chisels into the area right beyond the chuck (where the foot ended up). Here again, it's likely a technique thing I'm missing, but I couldn't find a way to get the skew or scraper positioned reasonably well because of interference from the headstock. Any suggestions? Do I just need to re-watch that part of Bill Grumbine's video? :)

After re-reading your response, I'm also wondering if my sequence is incorrect. Afther the rough bowl was dry, I put it in the jaw chuck (with the tailstock run into the inside of the bowl) and shaped the outside (to the extent possible...as I said, I couldn't really get all the way to the bottom). Then I withdrew the tailstock and finished the inside. Next, I sanded inside and outside (except right at the foot) and applied finish to both. Then I dismounted the bowl and put it in the donut chuck to finish the foot, first with chisels, then sandpaper, then friction polish. (Then I put it in a jam chuck to try to tweak the outside form a bit more.) Should I be doing the outside with the bowl in a jam chuck from the outset, switch to the jaw chuck to do the inside, then the donut chuck to remove the tenon?

Thanks again, Andy -

- Vaughn

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Atta-Boy!

:D

Yep, had to say it :D

You are doing good, and you are getting great advice and comments from everyone, nothing I disagree with.

One thing you got down for sure is the pics, they are a lot nicer than the ones I push on you guys.

Keep it up, and you will be the one giving out great advice in no time!

Cheers!

[Andy Hoyt]

Whoa there, pardner.

Whether roughing a green blank or finishing or dried bowl, it goes a whole lot better if you do the exterior first and the interior last. And you sure are setting yourself up for an "event" by trying to finesse the lower exterior near the foot when the foot is stuck in a chuck.

Always try to mount stuff so the stuff is between the headstock and the gouge. In other words - turn the bowl end for end.

Vaughn - lemme know if you'd like a phone call on this. Be happy to talk you through it.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Just for the edumacation of any other newbies reading this, here's the summary of the phone conversation I had with Andy:

I had the sequence off a bit. My problem was that I was putting the dried (but warped) bowl in the jaw chuck before truing up the tenon, then trying to shape the bottom while working around the spinning chuck. Instead, my first step after drying should be to mount the bowl in a jam chuck configuration (with the bowl opening facing the headstock), true up the tenon, and finish shaping the outside of the bowl (particularly the bottom). Then, flip the bowl around, mount it in the jaw chuck and finish shaping the inside. When everything else is done, flip it once more, put it in the donut chuck, and trim off the tenon...no need to do any more shaping on the outside.

I really do need to watch Bill's video another time or three. :o

Thanks, Andy -

- Vaughn

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Vaughn, to quote Mr. Grumbine........... "That's what the rewind button it for" :D

At least you got it right now!

Cheers!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Not bad for you 2nd bowl Vaughn! More importantly you got to learn a very important lesson!

Recently I posted photos of my 2nd NE. Some pecan Ernie sent me. Well Forrest Price was over at my house and I pointed out 4 small holes in the area where the tenon used to be......In my excitement to turn that NE ...Dummy (I'm the only dummy) screwed the faceplate to the flat side of the blank which becomes the foot area or bottom of the bowl.........DUH! I realized my mistake .....removed the face plate and mounted it to the bark side as it should have been for an NE. I could have shortened the bowl and done away with the evidence but I wanted the bowl to have tall sides so I left my mistake and didn't try to hide it! Forrest made the comment....that I had a unique bottom on that bowl....:D

Keep at it.......We are all learning!

[Don Orr]

You have already received lots of good comments and advice. I just want to add that this Olive bowl will definitely do its job and hold Olives very nicely:D . That is what you meant-Olive bowl=bowl for holding Olives?;)

Looking forward to your next piece.

[Andy Hoyt]

Glad I was able to help Vaughn.

Yet another example of the limitations of learning via keyboard as opposed to direct interaction. The phone worked this time, but the benefit of face to face discussions through clubs or just one on one with a like minded spinster has even more value.

Yes - that was a shameless plug for stepping out into the sunshine.