spraying paint

[stacey martin]

I have a wagner hvlp conversion gun and the wife wants me to spray paint some old cabinets. I havent used this gun much for the lack of experiance. I sprayed some doors along time ago and almost ruined them. I had to thin the paint alot to get it to spray. (water base) It caused some of the plywood to seperate. I had some oil base primer I sprayed the cabinets with, I thined it a little and thought it was fine but the gun still spit out the paint I thinned some more and had better luck but not like it should be. (I all so filtered the paint) To use this gun should I use oil base paints? They seem to be thinner then the water base paint. Do I need to buy a diffrent needle? I run about 40 lbs of air pressure on the hose and about 10 on the gun. The check vavle on the gun is suppose to let air in to the paint pot right? to me its not marked very good. Maybe I need a totaly diffrent gun. I would like to use this gun more for finishing projects but havent had much luck.
What brands of finish do you all use in your spray gun? I have started to buy from paint stores and have had better luck with thier brand then the stuff you get at the big box stores. Did some base board awhile back some of it turned out great and some of it bad. ( it spit it out instead of spraying out) anyway and help would be nice
Thanks Stacey

PS Jim becker help me out I bought this from your advise. HA HA:)

[tod evans]

stacey, when spraying the material must be thinned to the proper viscosity for your gun (and filtered) as a general rule if the gun is "spitting" the fluid is to thick or the air pressure to low or both. you can spray by feel, which is how i do it or by science which is how big factories do it. either works but science will give you more consistant results at the cost of major cash outlay. feel will give you good results at the cost of spending time with your equipment and learning to use it......02 tod

[bill walton]

I'm really interested in hearing some additional comments. I just finished a full kitchen of birch cabinets with soft maple face frames, drawer fronts and doors. The customer wanted them painted white and I had never done any painted projects. I used Fuhr 380 white tinted satin waterbase over a couple of coats of shellac seal coat. I had a bit of trouble at first although I think it was because of the heat and humidity down here coupled with my lack of experience with this finish. In the end, they came out very nice and the customer was very happy. It was a lot more work than I bargained for though. I sprayed them with the Wagner HVLP gun straight from the can. I think the pressure was about 20 at the gun before the trigger was pulled.

[Phil Phelps]

As Bill Walton lamented, it was more work than he bargained for. To get a high quality paint job, it can take as long as building the cabinet, doors and all. Staining and clear coating is much faster. Everywhere there is a joint, you should fill and or caulk. At least two coats of primer, sanding between coats and then at least two finish coats. For me, latex paints are out of the question. Your Wagner will work much better with alkyd products. However, I haven't used a Wagner product and can't comment on the quality. Some of them make so much noise, I couldn't handle it. Jim Becker uses a Wagner, I doubt the one I'm referencing, and has a lot of good results. Once again, the best spray equipment for alkyd and latex is an airless. An airless with a fine finish tip will produce fantastic results with alkyd paints.

[Jim Becker]

Phil, the Wagner gun is "silent" unless you pull the trigger...it's a pressure system, not a bleeder.

Stacey, reducing the material is important to get a good result. Although I rarely use oil-based products (I pretty much spray water borne 100%), I have used my gun with oil-based Rustoleum on some metal outdoor furniture that was my grandmothers long ago. It was awhile ago, so I don't remember the exact thinning ratio I did, but it was probably 20-30% or so. It sprayed beautifully with the standard #3 projector set in the gun. Pressure at the compressor was set to 40-50 psi and 15-20 psi at the gun.

Most importantly...you need to practice on cardboard or other scrap material until you have both the technique and the gun setting down for the material you are spraying.

[stacey martin]

Went out the other night and tryed again with some paint thinned it to what it said on the can cranked up the pressure some more and it looks like its going to work. It was to dark to paint outside but had to try it.So maybe sunday I'll get r done
Stacey

[Brian Parker]

If anyone is interested here is a chart I found as a guide for reducing/thining and what tips are recommended when spraying with the wagner conversion gun, it goes from stain to oil to alkyd to latex.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/gleempaint_1905_10182299

oh and if you want to spray latex with this gun and you need to thin it use Floetrol not water and it will help alot. Link to Floetrols site:
http://www.flood.com/Flood/CustomerSupport/FAQ/DIY/Floetrol+FAQ.htm

[Chris Padilla]

I'll second what Brian stated: Floetrol for latex RULES. Use the Floetrol regardless of your method of application...you will be shocked how nice it is to paint latex when thinned (conditioned?) with Floetrol. I will never paint latex without Floetrol again...it is that good.

BTW, I spray latex with my hvlp apollo 1000 all the time and get excellent results.

[Phil Phelps]

I'll second what Brian stated: Floetrol for latex RULES. Use the Floetrol regardless of your method of application...you will be shocked how nice it is to paint latex when thinned (conditioned?) with Floetrol. I will never paint latex without Floetrol again...it is that good.

BTW, I spray latex with my hvlp apollo 1000 all the time and get excellent results.
Chris, I've been spraying latex for almost forty years. I agree 100% about Floetrol, but mostly brushing, not spraying. Floetrol is an extender, not a thinner. I have experimented, not with a Wagner, and found I'm as well off with water through a HVLP or siphon gun. With an airless, no thinning necessary. If you're having good results, I won't argue. But, for me, spraying with Floetrol is not that helpful.

[Jason Roehl]

My thought is...if the latex/acrylic paint needs Floetrol...get a better paint that doesn't.

[Phil Phelps]

My thought is...if the latex/acrylic paint needs Floetrol...get a better paint that doesn't.
...I thought, "why don't they just add it to the paint at the factory?". I haven't brushed latex enamel in years. Are you saying that the top lines brush much better than say, the '70's?

[Chris Padilla]

My thought is...if the latex/acrylic paint needs Floetrol...get a better paint that doesn't.

Well, perhaps you have a point, Jason. My wife happens to like the color selections she finds at Home Depot and our local hardware store (Orchard Supply Hardware or OSH). We haven't gone anywhere else because both of those places serve our needs so far.

In those stores, we get Ralph Lauren, Behr, and Martha Stewart paints. I also use Glidden for my primer because a 5 gallon bucket of it is under $30.

BF (before Floetrol), I could paint fine with a roller but brushing always sucked...even with the Purdy line of brushes (which I tend to like). AF (after Floetrol), I can paint with a brush like a pro (like yourself) and get very nice results. I even feel rolling is better now.

Now keep in mind I am just a DIY guy at home and I certainly don't do this for a living but I am very happy with the system I've developed and very happy with the results. Each room that gets redone at my house looks better and better as my skills advance.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, I've been spraying latex for almost forty years. I agree 100% about Floetrol, but mostly brushing, not spraying. Floetrol is an extender, not a thinner. I have experimented, not with a Wagner, and found I'm as well off with water through a HVLP or siphon gun. With an airless, no thinning necessary. If you're having good results, I won't argue. But, for me, spraying with Floetrol is not that helpful.

Phil,

Well, you've got about 36 years more experience than me at spraying latex! :eek: Floetrol is certainly an extender but it does thin the paint so I guess I'm using it for both of those reasons and I'm very happy with the results.

[Jason Roehl]

Well, Chris, if you're going to refuse to buy good paint, maybe I can save you some money. :D Occasionally I will run across a paint that overall I like, but maybe one of the sheens in that line will drag a little when brushing. I'll thin it by maybe 5-10% with water, and all is right again with the world. Also, it helps to have the right brushes. Less sheen, stiffer bristles. More sheen, softer bristles.

Oh, and if there's a lot of spray off a roller, it's not a good paint (unless you're painting with Block-Fill or something like that, then there's nothing you can do). I hate messy paints.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, Chris, if you're going to refuse to buy good paint, maybe I can save you some money. :D Occasionally I will run across a paint that overall I like, but maybe one of the sheens in that line will drag a little when brushing. I'll thin it by maybe 5-10% with water, and all is right again with the world. Also, it helps to have the right brushes. Less sheen, stiffer bristles. More sheen, softer bristles.

Oh, and if there's a lot of spray off a roller, it's not a good paint (unless you're painting with Block-Fill or something like that, then there's nothing you can do). I hate messy paints.

I'm not in the habit of refusing to buy good quality stuff (lottsa F in my garage! :D ) but perhaps it is more that I don't really know any better when it comes to paint. Dropping $30/gal on Ralph Lauren does tickle the pocket-book a bit but if they have colors the LOML likes, then that is what we get.

Consumer's Reports recently did a little write-up on paints and I showed my wife how rather mediocre our chosen ones did...especially poor in the fade department. I said we might be repainting in a couple years. She could care...she likes the color choices.

Phil Phelps seems to like Benjamin Moore a lot...maybe I'll have to look for a store and give 'em a shot? :) I'm learning...I'm learning...and still open-minded. :D

[Phil Phelps]

Phil Phelps seems to like Benjamin Moore a lot...maybe I'll have to look for a store and give 'em a shot? :) I'm learning...I'm learning...and still open-minded. :D
..because they are outstanding paints. They are expensive, however. I just finished a house I'm selling, but I spared no expense on the paint. I did use flat wall instead of eggshell. The sheen of eggshell is really outstanding. It is far more scrubable than a flat finish. it's harder to apply, though. When cutting in, for instance, you need to roll before it begins to set. And, you can't just touch up as you can with flat paint. The difference between BM top products and others paints can be night and day. Years and years ago, Sears had a great product as did Sherwin Williams. There are still many quality paints on the market, but many times a contractor will use a medium line due to cost only. Sherwin Williams has a Pro line they sell to the contractors at a reduced rate. Benjamin Moore rarely cuts the contractor a break. Also, the color you choose can greatly affect coverage of your paint. I doubt you'll one coat yellow over too many other colors. I rarely one coat anything. You've heard it a thousand times, "you get what you pay for". It's true more times than not, especially in todays rip-off market. Carry on, Chris. You get better with each project.