Here's a second

[Liem Tran]

Can someone tell me why I couldn't get this one smooth? I sharpened my gouge several times to smooth it out but it didn't work. I also tried the scraper. The end grain seem to be torn. I did manage to get the wall thickness on this one more evenly than the first one.

Liem

[Bernie Weishapl]

Liem that is a good looking bowl. I am no expert by any means but sometimes when I have trouble with end grain I will use a spray bottle and spray it with water lightly. Another thing I tried and it works pretty well is what Mike Mahoney does. He puts some mineral oil on the toren grain. He waits a minute and then take his small 3/8" gouge with a regular grind not a Irish or side grind just the traditional grind (I got mine from Packard Woods and it is a P & N bowl gouge both the 1/2" and 3/8") that he has just sharpened and gives it one or two last runs across the wood taking light cuts rubbing the bevel. Both ways have worked for me very well. If I still have a little bit of tear out or a rough spot I will power sand with the lathe off just that spot with my 3/8" angle drill with a 2" or 3" hook and loop sanding pad with 80 grit. Don't know if it is right or wrong but as I said it works for me. Hope this helps.

[Liem Tran]

Thanks Bernie, I 'm going to give that first method a try. I was able to sand the rough spots off on the first bowl. I sanded the heck out of this one, but the roughness is still there.

Liem

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Liem...........I don't think I've seen anyone who has shown more talent than you this early in their turning experience! Nicely done bowl!

[Vaughn McMillan]

Wow Liem, I've gotta agree with Ken. You're sure taking off strong in your learning process. Both of your bowls look nice. What kind of wood did you use?

- Vaughn

[Tony Kent]

Liem,
Wow and another nice bowl. Second huh? Are you sure about that?
Just kidding you. The mineral oil thing I have used also as well as sanding with mineral oil and have also tried using a freshly sharpened gouge. All can work. It seems to me that some woods are just more stubborn then others too.
Great job and keep up the good work. You obviously are getting the skills down and your eye for shapes is great.
Take care,

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Nice work, Liem. I haven't had experience with torn end grain yet... or perhaps it's just that I don't know what I'm looking at. I'll leave the remedies to those with more experience, and learn for when it happens to me.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Liem, that one is very nice, the shape is much more pleasing to the eye.

End grain, yeah it can really suck, sharp tools help, and the #80 gouge (sandpaper) is of use, but really, it comes down to technique.

I have found that I can eliminate just about all of the tear-out by using the bowl gouge with the double grind on it, in a very different way than anything I've seen yet, this was demoed to us here in Japan by Eli Avisera.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/eli_avisera_july_06_demo/day1/dsc06646.jpg
This is a demo using a roughing gouge on a spindle, here is the classic presentation, you get a scraping action, the chip is NOT smooth.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/eli_avisera_july_06_demo/day1/dsc06647.jpg
Here is the same tool on the same spindle but presented differently. Notice the shaving. This is because the tool is presented in such a way that it cuts, it does not scrape.

I know this is not the inside of a bowl, but the principle is the same. Thing is, with the normal grind on the bevel of most tools, you cannot do this, but with the double grind you can, I have, and it works.

I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to hi-jack your thread, but you asked.

Cheers!

[Wally Wenzel]

Stu, you mention a double grind on a bowl gouge, what is that and how do you do it, thanks Wally

[Andy Hoyt]

Warning - Critique to follow.

Stu - I don't care what you call thing thing Eli is using - although it sure looks like a "spindle roughing gouge" to me. But geez, man, Keep that thing away from facework. That, or stock up on bandages and/or underwear.

[Liem Tran]

Wow Liem, I've gotta agree with Ken. You're sure taking off strong in your learning process. Both of your bowls look nice. What kind of wood did you use?

- Vaughn

Thanks Ken.
I don't know what it's called but I will take a picture of the tree it came from. Maybe you can ID it for me.

Liem

[Liem Tran]

Liem, that one is very nice, the shape is much more pleasing to the eye.

End grain, yeah it can really suck, sharp tools help, and the #80 gouge (sandpaper) is of use, but really, it comes down to technique.

I have found that I can eliminate just about all of the tear-out by using the bowl gouge with the double grind on it, in a very different way than anything I've seen yet, this was demoed to us here in Japan by Eli Avisera.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/eli_avisera_july_06_demo/day1/dsc06646.jpg
This is a demo using a roughing gouge on a spindle, here is the classic presentation, you get a scraping action, the chip is NOT smooth.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/eli_avisera_july_06_demo/day1/dsc06647.jpg
Here is the same tool on the same spindle but presented differently. Notice the shaving. This is because the tool is presented in such a way that it cuts, it does not scrape.

I know this is not the inside of a bowl, but the principle is the same. Thing is, with the normal grind on the bevel of most tools, you cannot do this, but with the double grind you can, I have, and it works.

I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to hi-jack your thread, but you asked.

Cheers!

Stu what does a double grind look like?
Don't worry you're not hii-jacking the thread. I need all the info I can get.

Thanks
Liem

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Warning - Critique to follow.

Stu - I don't care what you call thing thing Eli is using - although it sure looks like a "spindle roughing gouge" to me. But geez, man, Keep that thing away from facework. That, or stock up on bandages and/or underwear.

OK, admit it Andy, how many bottle of Moxie have you had? :D

If your "Read" my post you will see where I say...........

"This is a demo using a roughing gouge on a spindle....."

and where I also say....

"I know this is not the inside of a bowl, but the principle is the same."

The point of showing the roughing gouge is to show the orientation of the tool to the wood, to show how with the first presentation, the tools is not really cutting well, more of a splinter is coming off, but buy changing the presentation of the tool to the wood, you can get a nice cut.

I'm talking about how the gouge, with a double bevel on it can be presented in this way to get the nice clean cut.

Liem, I'll get back to you with a how to on the double bevel, it is easy to do if you have the vari grind jig, but I'm stuck for time at the moment.

Cheers!

[Andy Hoyt]

Sorry Stu. I read your third line:


I have found that I can eliminate just about all of the tear-out by using the bowl gouge with the double grind on it, in a very different way than anything I've seen yet, this was demoed to us here in Japan by Eli Avisera.
Saw the pic right below that and had my moment.

I should have read closer and perhaps you could written clearer.

Live & learn.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Sorry Stu. I read your third line:

Saw the pic right below that and had my moment.

I should have read closer and perhaps you could written clearer.

Live & learn.

No worries, and you are correct, I could have done a better job of being clear, my excuse was the time thing, but really it is not much of an excuse.

I'm writing and making diagrams and pics of how I saw Eli do this, so expect a better effort in the near future, sorry for the confusion.

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK Liem, here you go......

My Sharpening Station and Jig

I build a sharpening station around the older cheapo grinder I have, I'd love to get a Baldor slow speed grinder,
but, I've not convinced myself that I really need one...... yet...
　
The Grinder and Rests
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_overview.jpg
This is my basic set up. On the left, there is a table type of rest, I use this
for sharpening scrapers

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_front_interchangeable.jpg
There are two rests, one a table type, and the other a bar type.
They can go on either side of the grinder.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_flat_rest_top.jpg
A pic of the table type rest from the top

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_flat_rest_right.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_flat_rest_left.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_flat_rest_front.jpg
Looks a bit crooked here, but it is level.

Cont.....

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

.............


The Bar Rest

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_bar_rest_front.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_bar_rest_right.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_back_view.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_bar_and_flat_rest_right.jpg

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/sharp_under_right.jpg
I use a bolt and handle to lock the rests in place from under the stand.
　
The Jig
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_leftside.jpg
Obviously handmade, but it works well

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_rightside.jpg
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_leg_length.jpg
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_front_size.jpg
The front

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_backside.jpg
The backside

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

......................

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_front_view.jpg
The front with a bowl gouge inserted

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_set_length.jpg
I just screwed a piece of wood onto the stand to set my stick out on the jig,
the stick out is about 1 3/4" but it is not that critical, what is important, is that it is the same each time.
　
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_1st_setting.jpg
I do the top bevel first, I have the extension rest marked
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_1st_bevel_grind.jpg
You can see the gap at the bottom, this is because I'm only grinding the top bevel

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_1st_bevel_grind_closeup.jpg
A close up

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_2nd_setting.jpg
Once I've ground the 1st bevel, I move the extension rest inward to the second mark

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_2nd_bevel_grind.jpg
Here I'm grinding the second bevel

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/jig_2nd_bevel_grind_closeup.jpg
in the close up you can see that the 1st bevel is not being ground.
　
http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/sharp/bowl_gouge_double_bevel.jpg
This is the result, with this, you can present the tool to the work, in such a way that the tool cuts very smoothly.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well, that was a lot of pics :rolleyes: :o

I'll try to get a post up about how I saw Eli Avisera use this double bevel, as soon as I can.

Cheers!