Wood screws, countersinks, and drill bits - Oh my!

[Charles Wilson]

I am working on an assembly table for my garage and outdoor workshop so I have a steady, solid, large space to work on.

I bought some wood screws from local big box as the plans call for and was having a heck of a time with them stripping or snapping off. It seems that the screw heads were really soft (and I was pre-drilling for them.) Also, the counter sink bit set that I bought did not live up to expectations with 3 out of the 4 pieces of the blades on the counter sink snapping off (pre-drilling in 3/4" A-C plywood) as well as bits. Good thing is that I know that those screw extractor bits really do work!:D

My questions are as follows:

1) Does it sound like I was doing anything wrong?

2) Any particular wood screws that you people use where there is less
stripping?

3) Can anyone recommend a good counter sink bit set?

Regards,

Chuck

[Nathan Camp]

I was breaking screws left and right (mostly brass) in Brazilian Cherry with pilot holes. Put a little soap on the threads and they went right in. No problem.

I'm just using a cheap Ryobi pilot bit / countersink / screwdriver combo and it works fine. I'm sure there are better ones, but I'm happy when a $10.00 piece works.

On another note, when I built my workbench, I just used drywall screws (2" and 3"). That is on an unfinished work piece, not built to look nice, just to be strong.

Nathan

Nathan

[Dennis Peacock]

Chuck,

I stopped buying screws at the local BB stores for that very same reason. I now use McFeely's as well as a local commercial fastener store that sells good steel screws that will hold up to putting them in hard Oak without a pilot hold. Now THAT is a good wood screw. :D

[Jon Eckels]

For simple construction I like epoxy coated square drive screws. They ease through just about everything - I hardly ever snap them, and I dont think I've ever stripped one. They require little pressure force (as opposed to phillips head) and usually have a pretty good bite at the end to self-drill. I get em at a local lumberyard - Starborn makes them.

I think the ones they sell in Deep Homo are a square/philips combo. If you purchase these, just use regular square drive bits, it's much easier.

I'm surprised that you're having problems with countersinks breaking in AC. I'm amazed actually. I'd love to know what brand it is (so that I may avoid it).

I use W.L. Fuller countersinks, but they can be expensive if you don't plan to use them much. Dewalt makes a decent countersink as well - they're good for DIYers too because they have the hex shank. Easypower also makes decent countersinks.

Hope that helps!

[Ed Labadie]

You didn't say what size the screws were, or if they were sold as "drywall screws". In my experience drywall screws aren't any good for fastening wood to wood. As you found, the heads break off.
Go to a larger square drive deck screw, #8 minimum, pre-drill & dip the point of the screw in paste wax (it doesn't take much).

Ed

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Recently I inhereted a box of large philips wood screws that came from Home Despot. The diameter of the shank was about 0.187"
They break like they were made of pot metal.

[Al Willits]

Could be the pilot hole is to small, could be cheap screws also.
If these are wood screws, are you using the tapered wood screw bit, might help?
If your braking the cutters on the countersink bit, your either doing something drasticly wrong or you need to take the countersink and toss it.

I've used Sears countersink bits on metal, wood, plastic and who knows what and in 40+ years never broke one.
I doubt sears bits are any better than most decent bits out there.
Just a thought...

Al

[Jim Becker]

If these were "true" wood screws, they need a different kind of pre-drill/countersink setup than a "straight" screw. This is to accommodate the profile of the screw above the threads, etc.

But I'm with Dennis...McFeeley's and square drive is what I rally around when it comes to screws. I would only buy fasteners from the local 'borg in an emergency and then only after I exhausted my options in the shop to be "creative". I use #8 1.4" and #8 1.25" the most and buy them in bulk...buy in 1000 pc boxes. Other sizes I keep on hand in lesser quantities...buy in 100 pc boxes. The former lasts a long time and keeps the net cost per fastener down big-time.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Charles,

What Dennis and Jim said. McFeely's, www.mcfeelys.com (http://www.mcfeelys.com), 800-443-7937. Great catalog with tons of information, great quality and pretty good prices.

All sorts of screws and related items. I use square head screws and for most projects (90%) and in particular, "No-Co-Rode" especially with cedar and white oak because of the staining.

I just looked at my latest catalog and see that they do not sell them anymore but rather No-Co-Rode "Plus". Description says "Our new special NoCoRode plating process is now more corrosion resistant than ever, especially in ACQ pressure treated lumber, and the screws are painted to help them blend into the decking material". (Note from me - the standard screws are tan, deck screws are tan, redwood and gray).

Try them, you'll like them!!!!

Regards, Joe

[Phil Phelps]

Sheet metal screws are usually stronger.

[Jesse Cloud]

I'm amazed that you are having so much trouble. I do a lot of countersinking and have never broke a bit, a screw or a sink - not bragging just more evidence that something is wrong...

A couple of thoughts: if your bits are getting clogged, try drilling part of the way and withdrawing the bit to let it shed some wood. maybe you are making too small or too short a pilot hole. Maybe you are putting some sideways shear on the bit....

Anyhow, I agree with all the McFeeley's recommendations. Its all I use anymore. I get my sinks from Lee Valley and they work very well.

BTW, the McFeeley's website will have a chart showing proper pilot hole size and shape for various applications - a must read!

Let us know if any of this helps!

[Bill White]

ring I use stays in the ref. in the shop. Any time I need to set deep screws in hardwood out comes the old ring. Cheap, lasts forever, and it works.
Bill

[Kyle Kraft]

Daddy had a brick of beeswax that stuck to the screw better than candle wax or soap. The toilet ring sounds interesting. Maybe thats a good way to use the old one when you reseat your stool, just avoid the black stinky part.:D

[Travis Johnson]

ring I use stays in the ref. in the shop. Any time I need to set deep screws in hardwood out comes the old ring. Cheap, lasts forever, and it works.
Bill

Darn it Bill, you beat me to it. I thought I was the only one foolish enough to use toilet bowl wax ring to coat screws before drilling.

Still, the wax ring lasts forever, is very cheap, works extremely well and can be found anywhere.

[Joe Unni]

McFeely's, Borg Deck Masters and this:

http://www.newyankee.com/tool_photos/JRDLX-1.gif

Best investment ever!!! And don't mess around - get the whole kit.

Nope, nothing to do with the company. Just very happy with the product and tired of the other crap that's out there.

Good luck,
-joe

[Jim Becker]

I second the motion on the Jack Rabbit system. Very nice...I love mine.

[Maurice Metzger]

Charles, I know for sure that these countersinks from Lee Valley ("82° HSS Drill/Countersinks") will power through plywood:


45015


Maurice

[Bartee Lamar]

I get a square drive screw from my local ACE hardware. I use them for all utility construction.

They are "gold" in color and come in various #8 and #10 lengths.

Other wise I use SPAX that I get locally from Highland Hardware. I keep a large assortment of sizes.