Jet is scaring me [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

John Miliunas

10-02-2003, 9:54 PM

Kevin Gerstenecker

10-02-2003, 10:18 PM

I have no experience with Jet John, but from the ordeal that Martin is going thru, you are justified in being hesitant. Unfortunately, that is the chance you take with the offshore motors. I think the diagnosis of the motor windings being crammed in too small of an enclosure is probably the problem. Heat is the main enemy of most electronic components, and it will cause premature failure. As with almost anything mechanical, you will find some that run forever, and some that fail for no reason in short order. I have heard good things about Jet equipment, and I have dealt with Grizzly on several larger machines, and I have nothing but good to say about them. You just have to go with your gut sometimes, and hope for the best? Good Luck in your choice, maybe you can discuss your concerns with the Technical Folks at Jet, Grizzly and other vendors on your short list, and make an informed decision based on those conversations.

Dennis McDonaugh

10-02-2003, 10:33 PM

Well John, all I can say is Martin has had a hell of a time with his saw and his experience seems the exception that proves the rule. I've had my Jet 3hp cabinet saw for two years and have put a lot of lumber through it with no problem. I think most Jet owners will tell you they are satisfied with the performance and reliability of their tools. Grizzly won't give you peace of mind if its the Taiwanese motor you are worried about because they are made in China. Most folks will tell you that Taiwanese motors are made better than Chinese motors. Forrest Addy says the solution to the problem is to have the motor dippled so the windings can't vibrate and rub off their insulated coating. Sounds logical to me and only costs about $40 bucks at a motor shop so it might be cheap insurance. Good luck with your decsion.

Bruce Page

10-02-2003, 11:31 PM

John,
I’m sure that you’ve heard the old expression “One Aw Shucks(sp?) Will Wipe Out a Bunch of Atta’- Boys”
Almost everything that I read about Jet is positive. There are a lot of woodworkers that love their Jet tools and most of the customer service comments that I’ve read have been positive. I wouldn’t pass judgment because of Martin’s unfortunate motor problems.

Just my opinion

Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Answer: "I would not live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever, then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever," -- Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest.

Jim Becker

10-02-2003, 11:38 PM

Although the saga you mention is troubling in its own right, my experience with Jet has been exemplary, so I'll echo Bruce's and Dennis's thoughts not to pass judgement on this one case. Your dealer can also make all the difference in the world in such unusual circumstances...I know mine got a broken part on my jointer awhile back replaced for free, even though it was out of warranty...by almost two years!

Then again, buy what and from whom you feel most comfortable with, regardless of the stories!

John Weber

10-02-2003, 11:45 PM

Martin's motor troubles stink, but it seems companies are trying to save money where ever possible, but you can hear horor stories about all the major companies. I've found if given a chance most will do what is right. If Jet is what you want, I would not hestitate. Being a big Delta fan, I usually start shopping with them. Woodworkers Supply is running Unisaw special, with saws starting at $1299 delivered. They are still made in Tennessee and have Delta spec'd motors. I would not look any further: great saw, super fence, resale, parts, customer service, etc...

So did you win the lottery or kill a relative...

John

Dennis Peacock

10-03-2003, 2:54 AM

John ol' buddy.....I've had my Jet TS for 2 years now....geesh, has it been that long already? Anyway, the only problem I have had with mine is the set screw on the pully set on the motor. They worked loose ever so slightly and started making a noise. With the help of the folks here, my problem has been solve and I really do like my Jet TS. It is FAR better than the Robland X31 TS I have but I do use the Robland when I need to cut sheet goods due to it having a nice sliding table that will take a full sheet of plywood "length ways" and rip it with no problem. Nothing like having an 8 foot sliding table when you need one. :)

I have had very good experiences with Jet tools and had very poor experiences with Grizzly. Of course, if I had the money I would own a Felder or Hammer machine. But I don't have $20K to spend on a single machine like the nice Felder. Champaign taste and a beer pocketbook!!

Ken Salisbury

10-03-2003, 7:39 AM

A person has a problem with a certain manufacturer and all of a sudden their products are all just inferior.

I have had a Jet Cabinet saw for more than 8 years (old blue model) which has performed magnificently. I also have a shop full of Jet equipment (too numerous to list here). I have never had a motor problem on any of my Jet stuff. Further more - I can't remember when I last had a problem with any of the Jet stuff I have. One of the reasons most of the people here know me as a Jet Freak.

So the challenge is to find a manufacturer that has not had some type of problems -- definitely non existant.

The reason it scares me is because I was all set to place a substantial order with a popular scratch & dent vendor for multiple Jet units. I was looking toward the 3hp TS, the 18 or 20" BS, and the Performax 16/32. If funds hold, maybe even a smaller Jet shaper. On top of that, Martin seems to have been on the receiving end of some poor Customer Service from Jet, as well. I'm seriously reconsidering!
John - You should reconsider you reconsideration :D. Just my 2 ¢ worth

Mike Cutler

10-03-2003, 9:29 AM

I own a Jet 10" contractor tablesaw, 15" Planer, 6" jointer, 14" Bandsaw,20" Drillpress and DC1100 Dust Collector. I have had no problems with any of these machines performing their intended function. The only instances that I've encountered where Jet may have "fallen down on the job" are; the infeed and out feed rollers on the planer were harder to adjust than they need to be due to the design, the rear extension rail on the tablesaw was slightly bent on reciept and in my opinion all the bolts and nuts supplied for assembly need to replaced with higher quality fasteners. All of the Jet machines are easy to assemble, the finish has been excellent and the manuals have been more than adequate in detailing assembly, operation and maintenance. I'm not trying to sway your opinion one way or the other just relating my experience with the Jet product line

Martin Shupe

10-03-2003, 11:57 AM

John,

As others have said, one person's experience does not make an adequate sample size. However, review my thread, and read Duane Swensen's comments. Now you have a two person sample size!

Seriously, I am very disappointed in Jet. They have a new marketing campaign, emphasizing their new "Limitied Lifetime Warranty". This is designed to counter Delta's new 5 year warranty. You might ask what that new warranty will do for you. It didn't do anything for me.

Besides my Jet cabinet saw, I have a Jet mortiser, Jet mini lathe, and Jet air filter. Will I buy any more Jet? No, nada, never. My buddy in Iowa just bought a tablesaw at the Woodsmith store grand opening in Iowa, and it wasn't a Jet.

If you decide to buy the cabinet saw, I would suggest that you go with the 3 hp motor instead of the 5. 5 was probably overkill for me anyway, and if I had gone with the 3, maybe I would not have had any problems. Maybe the 3 cools better than the 5.

I should have known I had a lemon when I first unpacked the saw...the "on/off" sticker was upside down! Wish I had a digital camera to show you.

I would ask Delta where their motors are made, and about their warranty on them. Then you just have to make your own decision.

I hope you have better luck than I did.

Ken Salisbury

10-03-2003, 12:12 PM

I have a Jet 10XL with a 5 hp Taiwanese motor. I have owned the saw for almost 3 years, and up until now it has not given me any problems.

It is kinda like the Mercedes 380SL I bought that actually had the steering wheel installed 180 degrees out of phase. It was still a lot better than the Ford Mustang that it replaced. :D

John Miliunas

10-03-2003, 1:53 PM

I'm getting more confused by the minute! I know there are many happy Jet customers. Until now, I've been fairly happy with my Jet equipment, as well (Belt/disc sander & 14" BS w/riser). Then again, beside the motor issues brought to light recently, there's also the "Wood Magazine" article not rating the TS real well, due to heavy scoring on thicker material. To add to that, at the recent Woodcraft Tool Show, I spoke to a Jet rep and he didn't have any real explanation for the Wood test results other than, "..The other vendors tested have been doing a fair amount of advertising with Wood Magazine." He told me that they (Jet) used to score real high in the magazine and hadn't changed anything, which would skew the results. At the same time, according to the article, when the magazine contacted Jet, they were told that "corrective measures had been taken" to get rid of the scoring issue. Huh? Which is it? In other words, I'm not sure that even Jet reps know for sure what is going on.

Please, don't misread this as a slam on Jet. Like I said, I've got some of their pieces, but on this pending purchase, I want....No, I NEED it to be my final purchase of such equipment! Period. I have no intention of upgrading the equipment I buy this time around. Hence, pardon my skepticism, but this could easily be the last time I may have this opportunity and I don't want to blow it! I'm feeling pretty good about the Performax, as it does have a decent track record. For the other equipment, though, this latest motor thing and lack of quality Customer Service bugs me. The design thing of these items may be a concern, as well. If Jet is "cheaping out" and putting 5hp guts into a 3hp frame, what "other" shortcuts or cost-saving designs are they implementing?! :( And, if the design issue (of the motor) is a known weak point, then Customer Service should've stepped up to the plate and arranged for, at least, a no-cost exchange with a rebuilt motor. Outside the warranty, yes, but invaluable as it relates to credibility and future sales.

I don't know guys...Guess I'll just keep researching and trying to find reputable reps to talk to and see what turns up. Thanks much for all the input and additional food for thought! You guys are the BEST! :cool:

Scott Coffelt

10-03-2003, 2:59 PM

I noticed that all of their new tools are coming out with a limited lifetime warranty, so from some points of view seems they are looking to satnd behind the quality. I sure like the 2 Jet tools I own (6" jointer and Spindle sander).

Martin Shupe

10-03-2003, 3:13 PM

John said:

"Then again, beside the motor issues brought to light recently, there's also the "Wood Magazine" article not rating the TS real well, due to heavy scoring on thicker material. To add to that, at the recent Woodcraft Tool Show, I spoke to a Jet rep and he didn't have any real explanation for the Wood test results other than, "..The other vendors tested have been doing a fair amount of advertising with Wood Magazine." He told me that they (Jet) used to score real high in the magazine and hadn't changed anything, which would skew the results. At the same time, according to the article, when the magazine contacted Jet, they were told that "corrective measures had been taken" to get rid of the scoring issue. Huh? Which is it? In other words, I'm not sure that even Jet reps know for sure what is going on."

John,

The Jet rep at the Woodsmith store grand opening denied any knowledge of the scoring problem, denied any knowledge of the "corrective action", and denied any knowledge of the Wood Magazine article.

"In other words, I'm not sure that even Jet reps know for sure what is going on."

Very well put.

Duane M Swensen

10-06-2003, 8:24 PM

John,I have posted my experiences with Jet 's motors on their equipment a couple of times.This is on equipment at my job and I have no personal stake as to what they buy for us to use. I am just relating my experience with them. I personally own a Delta Uni saw and a Delta bandsaw and am well satisfied with each. I also own a Jet bench top Mortiser and prefer it over the Delta we have at work.One other thing to consider Powermatic is owned by Jet. If I were looking for a new saw today I would be looking real hard at a General.Just my 2 cents.

John Miliunas

10-06-2003, 10:43 PM

One other thing to consider Powermatic is owned by Jet. If I were looking for a new saw today I would be looking real hard at a General.Just my 2 cents.

Many thanks for all the replies, thoughts, opinions and honest appraisals through your own experiences. In talking with the "Steering Committee" (LOML, that is), we both agreed that this WILL be my LAST TS purchase, so I might as well make it right. Further research and compiling the information I have from within the fine group of woodworkers at SMC, I've pretty much decided that my next (LAST) TS purchase will be a Bridgewood, 10LTS from Wilke Machinery. Their Customer Service is fantastic, pricing very fair and even the S/H is not only reasonably priced, but past experience has shown it to be top notch. I spoke with one of their reps today and he invited me to come on down to their showroom, where he could physically show me the similarities between their saw, the General, Powermatic and yes, even the Unisaw. Only the first three have the heavier duty box trunnion, which ultimately translates into smoother and more accurate performance. Even "Fine Woodworking" has nice things to say about the Bridgewood. So, there you have it. As soon as the house closing is done, it's "shopping time"! :D Thanks again, folks! :cool:

Ernie Kuhn

10-06-2003, 11:43 PM

It is kinda like the Mercedes 380SL I bought that actually had the steering wheel installed 180 degrees out of phase. It was still a lot better than the Ford Mustang that it replaced. :D

Ken,
Does that mean you had to drive it sideways?
Ernie

Wes Bischel

10-07-2003, 12:33 AM

John Miliunas

10-07-2003, 7:50 AM

John,

If you decide to test drive them, let us Central PA guys know - in the very least to get together.

If you need any other information, or pics etc. of details let me know, I can run over and check it out - Wilke is only 40 minutes away, and it gives me an excuse to head over there.

Wes

Wes,

Thanks much for the offer, but I don't think that's going to happen. I'm burning all my "vacation" time on the move. (Although it sure sounds like a tempting invite! There seems to be a whole LOT of nice WW folks out your way, who I'd love to meet!) At any rate, I've dealt with Wilke before and I like the way they do business. Yes, I'm a bit disappointed that the Bridgewood is not North American made, but that option would mean several hundred bucks more (General or Powermatic) for basically the same machine and I'd rather spend the difference for WOOD! :D Besides, Wilke gets the machine in, the assemble it, clean it up and even test it. Can't ask for much more! :cool:

nic obie

10-07-2003, 1:37 PM

Can't ask for much more! :cool:

And you get an american made motor too!

Richard McComas

10-07-2003, 2:55 PM

I've been following the trials and tribulations Martin is going through with his Jet TS. An expensive, high output rig like that shouldn't be giving him problems three years after purchase. Especially since it only gets light to moderate use. The reason it scares me is because I was all set to place a substantial order with a popular scratch & dent vendor for multiple Jet units. I was looking toward the 3hp TS, the 18 or 20" BS, and the Performax 16/32. If funds hold, maybe even a smaller Jet shaper. On top of that, Martin seems to have been on the receiving end of some poor Customer Service from Jet, as well. I'm seriously reconsidering! Wilke (Bridgewood) and even Griz are starting to look better all the time. I realize there are good and bad for every OEM, but this one is really starting to bother me. Are my fears founded or can this just be "one of those things"? :cool:

I found this on anothre forum:

Looked at the new Jet 3 HP 15" Planer. Looked exactly like the York planer execpt for base at $200 more (shipping vs sales tax almost wash). Made a comment to the factory rep that $200 more would be worth it for the US made motor. WRONG!!! He stated that all of Jets equipment has China made motors. To be competitve with Grizzly and Bridgewood they opted for using Chinese motors. Polled why pay $200-300 more for Jet equipment, he could only reply better paint and local service. He commented if I areally wanted professional grade tools, I should consider Powermatic. How long before they will switch to inferior motors? Checked with Delta via email. Got similar response about motors.

Guess I am not sure what I am getting buying from Delta and Jet vs companies Grizzly and Bridgewood/York (HF and Northern Supply excluded). Not like 10 yrs ago when Grizzly sold inferior out of spec and Delta Jet were premium tools. Comments?

John Miliunas

10-07-2003, 11:58 PM

I found this on another forum:

Looked at the new Jet 3 HP 15" Planer. Looked exactly like the York planer except for base at $200 more (shipping vs sales tax almost wash). Made a comment to the factory rep that $200 more would be worth it for the US made motor. WRONG!!! He stated that all of Jets equipment has China made motors. To be competitive with Grizzly and Bridgewood they opted for using Chinese motors. Polled why pay $200-300 more for Jet equipment, he could only reply better paint and local service. He commented if I areally wanted professional grade tools, I should consider Powermatic. How long before they will switch to inferior motors? Checked with Delta via email. Got similar response about motors.

Guess I am not sure what I am getting buying from Delta and Jet vs companies Grizzly and Bridgewood/York (HF and Northern Supply excluded). Not like 10 yrs ago when Grizzly sold inferior out of spec and Delta Jet were premium tools. Comments?

Richard, funny you should mention Delta. When I spoke to a pretty knowledgeable sales rep at a major WW store, I made a comment to the effect of, "Well, at least the Delta is US made." He kinda' wrinkled his mouth, cocked his head and replied, "Actually, not sure how much of it IS built stateside!" Whew! Blow me over with a feather! You also mention York. I bought the Yorkcraft lathe about a year ago. Except that it doesn't have the locking spindle, it's a spitting image of the Jet. I've used the 1236 Jet and find no difference between it and my Yorkcraft. The rep at Wilke told me flat out that they were made in China at the same plant Jet is and Wilke is selling them simply to compete head to head with Jet & Delta. And compete they do, 'cuz the Yorkie is substantially less $$$! :cool:

As mentioned at the start of this thread, I really do NOT intend to have this become a Jet-bashing party. I have purchased a couple Jet pieces after the Yorkcraft and am quite happy with them, as they are doing the job they were meant to do. Fit and finish on both tools is fine. Will either/both be upgraded at some point? Probably. With another Jet? Well......? :cool:

John Weber

10-08-2003, 10:57 AM

John,

No problem with Bridgewood, it acutally looks like a copy of a Powermatic from the pics. However don't think they are using US motors anymore, I believe all the imported tools come with imported motors. They might swap one for you if you pay the difference, but don't assume your getting a Baldor. It sounds like your decision is made, but I'd still look at the 30" Unisaw with the Unifence from Woodworkers Supply for $1299 shipped. The Bridgewood fence is a Biesemeyer clone and one of the wood mags has had a review of fences and there was a lot of differences among the clones (from very good to not so good). The Unifence is an excellent fence, with some additional feastures the others don't have. Also the Unisaw is made (final assembled) in the US, will have better resale if you ever move up to a Felder, and can be serviced all over the country. When I've compared the saws with the tops off, the Delta, Powermatic (pre Jet), and General all had better machining and more refinement then the imports. They all cut wood, but more finely built tools should run better and longer then a less refined tool. Nothing against Bridgewood, they are a fine imported, but I think at $1299 the Unisaw is hard to beat.

John

Ed Falis

10-08-2003, 1:54 PM

John,

No problem with Bridgewood, it acutally looks like a copy of a Powermatic from the pics. However don't think they are using US motors anymore, I believe all the imported tools come with imported motors. ....John

John,

I bought the BW 10LTS in January. The motor is US made, but labelled "Bridgewood". At least for this product, Wilke systematically swaps out the Taiwanese motor. Have you seen the innards of this saw in person? I didn't see any more refinement in the machining of the Uni's I looked at: "imports" is kind of a broad term. Only pushing back because you're painting your opinion with a pretty broad brush here.

- Ed

Bill Esposito

10-08-2003, 3:12 PM

John Weber

10-08-2003, 3:54 PM

Ed,

I often heard on the famed US motors from Bridgewood, so I thought I would ask, here is what they said:

Hello,

The Bridgewood BW-10LTS and the BW-12LTS left tilt saws are supplied with an imported motor. The motors are "UL" and "CSA" approved. These table saws are also equipped with Square D magnetic switches, laser cut cabinet parts and a durable powder coat finish.

Fine Woodworking magazine has done a recent review of the BW-10LTS saw. This may help with any other questions you may have.

Regards,
Curt/sales

so I guess they are no longer US made motors. Anyway, I may have used a broad brush and have not looked at the underside of a Bridgewood, but in general the imports use lots of cost cutting, such as stamped pulleys vs cast, sheet metal brackets instead of cast, rougher machining, etc... Now not in every machine (table saws, jointers, shapers, etc...) and there are differences with the importers (Jet, Grizzly, Bridgewood, Woodtek, General Int'l, Sunhill, Seco, Delta, and Powermatic etc...) but the North American machines appear better built from that standpoint to me. Again nothing against Bridgewood, but they are importing the most of the same machines as everyone else.

Ed, feel free to push, no offense and I hope I have not offended.

John

Jim Becker

10-08-2003, 4:12 PM

The confusion on the Bridgewood motor may be due to the fact that their big bandsaw does feature a USA-made motor and it's clearly deliniated on Wilkie's web site for that particular machine. That saw is often referenced in the online forums due to the motor and perhaps it made things cloudy. Wilkie, however, pretty much universally gets major kudos from customers relative to service and the buying experience.

Ed Falis

10-08-2003, 6:15 PM

Ed,
Ed, feel free to push, no offense and I hope I have not offended.

John

John,

Offense neither taken nor intended.

I went down and took a good look at my saw. The motor is labelled "Bridgewood" with no identification of country of origin that I could find with it installed. So, I'll have to cede the motor issue, assuming the worst ;-) A few years should tell the tale.

The pulleys and brackets are clearly cast. And the machining looks pretty good to me, though I'm no expert.

I will go along with you on another point: buyer beware! Just do your research and know what your tradeoffs are.

Appreciate your taking the time to research the issue in this thread, too.

Would I still buy this saw over the uni? Yep, no question.

- Ed

Ed Falis

10-08-2003, 6:19 PM

The confusion on the Bridgewood motor may be due to the fact that their big bandsaw does feature a USA-made motor and it's clearly deliniated on Wilkie's web site for that particular machine. ...

Jim,

From what I understand, they started switching in US motors on those saws because they were having definite complaints and poor maintenance records on the European motors that they came with.

I realized this was a separate situation from the tablesaw when I bought it. In fact, if I reflect, I don't think I really cared at the time whether it was Taiwanese or US, but was willing to be pleasantly surprized when I saw the English label on the motor. Que sera!

- Ed

John Weber

10-08-2003, 7:03 PM

Jim DeLaney

10-08-2003, 9:32 PM

Ed and Jim,

I always heard positive things about Bridgewood and would not hesitate to recommend someone buy from them. Ed, as for the left tilt saw, is it a copy of the Powermatic 66, from the specs it seems like this might be the case, but I've not seen one close. That said, I still like the Unisaw at $1299, differences it's what make the world go round.

Thanks guys - John

I suspect that the Bridgewood is pretty much the same as the Shop Fox/Grizzly/Jet left tilt - quite likely made at the same factory - and pretty much all copies of the Powermatic, with a few (mainly cosmetic) changes.

I have the Shop Fox, with the 'classic' fence (short rails) and just can't say enough good things about it. It replaced a Powermatic 63 contractors saw that, while okay, I was just never satisfied with.

Yes, the motor is made in Taiwan. I've had really good luck (so far) with Taiwanese motors, though. The 3/4 hp motor on my 23 year old Elephant (Delta clone) 14" bandsaw is still going strong, and it's really been worked hard over the years. Same with the 1 hp on my 6" jointer that's about twelve years old. The motor on the old Powermatic 63 was also Taiwanese, and never gave a lick of trouble. A friend is still using it, btw.

Ed Falis

10-08-2003, 10:19 PM

...That said, I still like the Unisaw at $1299, differences it's what make the world go round.

Thanks guys - John

Yep. No problem here. Thanks to you, too.

- Ed

Ed Falis

10-08-2003, 10:27 PM

I suspect that the Bridgewood is pretty much the same as the Shop Fox/Grizzly/Jet left tilt - quite likely made at the same factory - and pretty much all copies of the Powermatic, with a few (mainly cosmetic) changes.

....

Jim,

Appreciate your adding your perspective. From a quality point of view, I don't think that broad generalizations can be made about the output of various countries (well, I guess some can, when a country's industries are new to a particular technology and product). But that's not the case when comparing North American, European and Taiwanese products. Yes, different economics and market positions come into play, and can affect the quality efforts that go into particular products, but there are few absolutes in the kind of global markets at stake.

That's not to say that I prefer to send my dollars overseas (if such an idea even holds anymore with all these global corporations and distribution channels). It just means you have to get rid of the stereotypes and decide things case by case.

Whoops. Off the soapbox.

- Ed