Building a Sea Kayak

[John Bailey]

Finally started building a new sea kayak. A friend and I are going to build two "Spring Run's." First, we bought the plans and had to cut out the "moulds."


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We traced the shape of the moulds onto paper used for sewing. Then we glued the paper to 1/2" ply. We cut out the rough shapes, cut close to the line with the bandsaw, and finally, used a belt sander to get the final shape. The moulds will be used to bend cedar strips into the kayak shape.



We built a strong back to attach the molds. To build the strongback, I spent about 3 hrs. building a 16' flat, level and square surface so the strongback would also be flat, level and square. Here are a couple of pictures of the glue-up and the finished strongback.


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It took all my clamps to get this done. We could have used a 2x4 for the strongback, but we felt it was worth the time to build a nice level one because it's going to be used for two kayaks. Here's the strongback with the moulds on it.


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Next will be placing the moulds in exactly the right spot on the strongback and attaching the stern and bow pieces.

John

[Jeff Horton]

Keep us up to date. I have been talking about building one for a a couple of years and I think this winter may be when I actually start on it. I think I have decided to with the Gillmont. Deciding on the boat to build has been the biggest hurdle.

You going to use Wester Red cedar?

[Frank Hagan]

Stripper kayaks are works of art! I love the look, and have a couple of builders on my boat building website that have done magnificent jobs on them.

Guillemont has a forum on his site that is very informative (sort of what SMC is to woodworking, Guillemont is to stripper kayaks).

[tod evans]

john, this is going to be one of the "cool" threads! please keep us updated. thanks, tod

[John Bailey]

Frank,

Thanks for the tip. I've got Schrade's book, I'll go check his website.

Todd,

I don't know about "cool," because neither my friend or I know what we're doing. It may more likely be called "An Idiot's Guide to Kayak Building." Both Glen and I have dinked around woodworking for many years and we think we'll be able to fix enough of our mistakes to make a presentable kayak. And besides, Glen's from Arkansas, that must count for something.

John

[tod evans]

john, a wooden canoe is in my future..way down the road but still there. so i for one will be watching and learning with interest.
tod

[Bob Aquino]

Very interesting. Assuming you bend and build the kayak around the forms, how do you get the forms out from the finished boat? Do you work it in two sections, an upper and lower and them secure them together outside of the forms? Please keep us all informed (with lots of pix), Thanks.

[John Bailey]

Bob,

We'll start by building the hull first, with the moulds being upside down. Then, with the moulds still intact, we simply turn the whole thing rightside up and do the deck. Before joining the two, the moulds will be taken out. It will be a very interesting thread if we don't remeber to take the moulds out. Sorta like building a boat and forgeting to measure the door.

John

[David Wilson]

John
Looks like you are well on your way. I'm about to start on my second kayak since the wife claimed the first one. You have a real thrill ahead of you when you first launch and the darn thing floats. Feel free to ask if I can be of any assistance.

[Ben Abate]

This should be a cool thread, please keep us up to date. This is one of those projects that a lot of us are interested in. I myself have always wanted to build one. Will you be using cedar strips like the ones you see in some adds?

Thank you
Ben

[John Bailey]

David,

I was watching your posts about your kayak. I was in Greece for a couple of months and must have missed the finished product and compulsory pictures of the launch. You did do that didn't you? Ed. - I went back and checked your thread. Nice boat David. The only thing I would complain about is that funny lookin', cranky type paddle made of something other than wood. You need to make yourself a nice Inuit blade. Another thing, if we ever meet up, I'll teach you to Eskimo Roll. Haven't met anyone that couldn't learn yet.

Ben,

I'm not sure we are going to use the same type of strips. We have a good and cheap source for western red cedar. The local lumber yard said we can pick through all their boards they sell for decking. They said some of them are clear, even though they are'nt advertised that way. They even offered to help look for us. We'll use local white cedar for accent strips. The first boat is going to be my friend's boat, and he's going to do cove and bead. When we get to mine, I think I'm going to bevel all the strips so I can get practice doing that. I've got plans for larger boats and will need to be able to bevel all the planking, taking into account all the curves and twists.

John

[Jerry Strojny]

John,
I am envious of your free time. I will be watching this thread very closely. I love kayaks, and would love to watch the construction of one. I have a kayak kit (plywood) sitting in my basement waiting to be started. I bought it last Christmas....with plans to start it during this summer.....we got pregnant in Feb.....had to change gears for baby. So I have been hard at work on stuff for the nursery. Baby is due Oct 1 so my last 2 projects (crib and end table) need to get into high gear. Now with this thread I will be able to get my kayak fix and woodworking fix at the same time. Keep the pics and updates coming.

[John Bailey]

Today we started putting the moulds on the strongback and adjusting them so they are perfectly square and spaced properly. Here are the moulds before they are put on the strongback. To attach the moulds, we first attach blocks to three sides. These have to be squred up and in the proper spot. After these blocks are set up, we drill holes to attach the moulds to the blocks.


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When attaching the moulds, we have to make adjustments so all the lines line up. The molds have a center line and a waterline that must all line up. Some of the blocks have to be cut back to keep them out of the way when the cedar strips are attached.


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John

[Steve Beadle]

I will be watching this thread with great interest. I have a couple of books on building cedar strip canoes and hope to build one someday. It'll have to be kitty-korner in my garage shop!

Keep us all informed on your progress and the things you learn along the way--especially the mistakes! :)
Steve

[John Bailey]

In addition to attaching the moulds to the strongback, there was some shaping we had to do today. Because the bow is much narrower than the middle of the kayak, the bow end of the strongback has to be shaped. Then there is a "bow piece" that has to be fit into a slot infront of the 1st mould.


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The bow piece is fit but not attached at this time. It will be used to laminate both the inside bow stem and outside bow stem.

We worked 5 hours today and got the front half moulds in place and the bow piece slot cut. It looks easy, but there is a lot of measuring because the moulds have to be exact before the cedar strips go on. Tomorrow we hope to get the aft moulds done and the stems laminated.

John

[Richard Wolf]

Nice tread John, I think building a boat is one of those basic forces in most of us. I'm sure most of us have a boat on our list of "to be completed".
Please keep us updated.

Richard

[John Bailey]

Will do Richard!

John

[Ian Barley]

What Richard said - I have a strip kayak on my list so I will watch this thread develop with great interest - good start John.

[Frank Fusco]

What will be the final dimensions?

[John Bailey]

The kayak is a "Spring Run" designed by Joe Greenly, Redfish Kayaks.

Length overall - 17' 9"
Beam - 23 7/8"
Waterline beam - 22 1/2"
Weight - 36#

I'm having a hard time believing it's going to be only 36#. But, even 46#
will be way lighter than any kayak I've had.

John

[Jeff Horton]

I'm having a hard time believing it's going to be only 36#. But, even 46#
will be way lighter than any kayak I've had.


John while I have not built one yet I have done a lot of reading on them and spent a lot of time on the Kayak forum. One discussion I remember clearly was about why some boats came out heavier than others. Aside from the obvious answer of the type of wood and the thickness of the strips being used. The next variable was the amount of epoxy used. Newbies tended to use more epoxy typically than someone with more experience. The old more is better thinking. Sometimes they wouldn't trust the designer and use more or heavier fiberglass cloth which of course hold more epoxy. Epoxy is heavy and their boats would turn out heavier than they should.

Just food for thought.

[John Bailey]

John while I have not built one yet I have done a lot of reading on them and spent a lot of time on the Kayak forum. One discussion I remember clearly was about why some boats came out heavier than others. Aside from the obvious answer of the type of wood and the thickness of the strips being used. The next variable was the amount of epoxy used. Newbies tended to use more epoxy typically than someone with more experience. The old more is better thinking. Sometimes they wouldn't trust the designer and use more or heavier fiberglass cloth which of course hold more epoxy. Epoxy is heavy and their boats would turn out heavier than they should.

Just food for thought.

Jeff,

I've read the same things. I plan on doing some reinforcing in some areas, like just behind the cockpit where I sit alot. I'm pretty heavy for a kayaker, 235 lbs., and I think I'll need a bit more layup than most. But my wife's boat is listed at 51 lbs. and is a featherweight to throw around. So, anything near that is gong to be great.

John

[John Bailey]

We finished placing the moulds today. I'm glad that's over, because it's not the fun part of the job. It took us a week to build the strongback, cut the moulds out, line everything up and tack everything down. Below you'll see the final cut on the strongback to make it the right length. Also, you'll see two views of the strongback with the moulds on them.


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Tomorrow we will be laminating the inside and outside stem pieces along with picking out boards at the local sawmill to cut into 1/4" strips. Will be cutting the strips on my friends Laguna 16HD bandsaw. I've used it a couple of times on this project, and it sure is a dream.

We'll try to get some pictures of the strips as we cut them.

John

[Richard Wolf]

It's looking like alot of fun. I realize you have kayaking experience, I white water kayaked for years in my younger days, of course river boats are all plastic now. The beauty of the wood and the knowledge that you built this yourself will be great.
We all love to build things of wood, but when you can use it to have fun with also, it's a great plus.
I'm also envious of your time that you can dedicate to this project.

Richard

[David Wilson]

John
A quick piece of advice. When you get to doing the cove and beads on the strips be sure to do the beads first as the coves are fairly delicate and can be damaged by feather boards.

[John Bailey]

It's looking like alot of fun. I realize you have kayaking experience, I white water kayaked for years in my younger days, of course river boats are all plastic now. The beauty of the wood and the knowledge that you built this yourself will be great.
We all love to build things of wood, but when you can use it to have fun with also, it's a great plus.
I'm also envious of your time that you can dedicate to this project.

Richard

Richard,

I've not done much whitewater. I came to sea kayaking about 12 yrs. ago as a way to extend my backpacking to the water. The thing about sea kayaking is that it's easy on the body. I guided a trip in Greece this year with a 72 yr. old from Canada. We went 200 mi. in 14 days. Sea kayaking is an activity, and an adventure of a lifetime.

John

[Frank Fusco]

The kayak is a "Spring Run" designed by Joe Greenly, Redfish Kayaks.

Length overall - 17' 9"
Beam - 23 7/8"
Waterline beam - 22 1/2"
Weight - 36#

I'm having a hard time believing it's going to be only 36#. But, even 46#
will be way lighter than any kayak I've had.

John




I'm flabbergasted. The name "sea kayak" had me envisoning a monster. Going into the ocean with a tiny delicate thing like that reminds me of the poem line "You'r a braver man than me......".

[Bob Smalser]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]...Tomorrow we will be laminating the inside and outside stem pieces along with picking out boards at the local sawmill to cut into 1/4" strips.

What glue do you plan to strip with?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822&highlight=glue+joints

[John Bailey]

Bob,

I'll be using System 3 Epoxy for the lamination. I plan on using Titebond III for gluing the strips together. Both books I've read suggested regular wood glue because the strips will be sheathed in fiberglass.

John

[John Bailey]

We started the lamination of the stern and bow stempieces today. One thing that helps is one of my favourite "tools," a small portable work surface. I use this for every thing. In this case I just screw a jig made to hold the stempiece form so I can do the lamination in comfort. First picture is the table, next the table with the jig and next with the form in.


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Next I gather everything that is needed for the lamination. You don't want to be looking for things once the process starts. I like doing this kind of work, only if I'm not in a hurry, and once you mix the epoxy, you have to keep going. After everything is ready, I do a dry run to make sure everything is going to fit and I have everything I need.


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[John Bailey]

After the dry fit shows that everything is ready, it's off to the epoxy shelf. I used to hate working with epoxy, but now, with the automatic measuring spouts, I just keep some on a shelf and it's quite easy to use. Notice there's a piece of wax paper to catch any drips. It's tough stuff to clean up after it's dried on wood. Then I assemble everything on the work surface. I have one strip, then four strips, then one more. The top and bottom strips will be epoxied on only one side, with the other four being expoied on both. Although it doesn't show here, I'll have wax paper on the form.


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This is just the inside stempiece. It's made of cedar, or some other softwood, while the outside stempiece is made of hardwood. Mine will be ash, only because I have it around. I could have laminated both at one time, with the ever present wax paper inbetween. It seemed much easier to do one part at a time. After the epoxy cures, I'll use the inside stempiece to laminate the outside so the shape will be exactly the same. The inside piece will be beveled to fit the cedar strips on the ends of the boat. Then the outside stempiece will be attached to the strips and inside stempiece after shaping.

One other note and picture. Whenever I do epoxy work, I always try to find a piece of MDF that may be used for something in the future and spread the extra epoxy on it. This is better than wasting the epoxy, and I always have a little left. Eventually the board will be covered with epoxy and sealed completely. This board will probably end up being a small shelf somewhere in the shop.


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Tomorrow we should be able to get to cutting out the strips. We'll be doing that with the bandsaw. We spent quite a bit of time searching through boards at the sawmill finding some boards that would work. We could have gotten clear cedar, but the 1x12's were $106 apiece and we got a lesser grade 1x6 for $12.

John

[John Bailey]

I'm flabbergasted. The name "sea kayak" had me envisoning a monster. Going into the ocean with a tiny delicate thing like that reminds me of the poem line "You'r a braver man than me......".
Frank,

Remember, these "tiny delicate" kayaks were used for thousands of years in the harshest northern climates imaginable. They were not only used for travel, but to hunt seals, walrus, and in some cases elephant seals and whales usually by individual hunters whose lives depended on the kayaks. In the right hands they are as sea worthy and moreso than most large ships. The picture I've included shows the conditions I was in a week ago. The winds gusted to 40 mph and we were in 6 ft. waves at times, with shoals all around. The rock in the picture is very large, with spray going up 20 ft. at times. We departed from a marina with small craft warnings posted. The five of us were the only ones leaving that day, the larger boats had to stay put. When you get to share a beautiful campsite in the wilderness with the likes of the bald eagle that stayed with us for most of 3 days, it was well worth it.


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John

[tod evans]

john, clear kd cedar is going through the roof! last year about this time wholesale was 2.35 now it`s 4.00! and availibility is sketchy here? tod

[Bob Smalser]

Bob,

I'll be using System 3 Epoxy for the lamination. I plan on using Titebond III for gluing the strips together. Both books I've read suggested regular wood glue because the strips will be sheathed in fiberglass.

John

Please stick with epoxy throughout.

Glass and epoxy doesn't stick to Titebond....that's no real problem in initial construction where the gluelines are so small, but will be a disaster if you or someone else has to feather in a repair later. If you must use a one-part glue because of allergies, use something epoxy sticks to like liquid poly...Gorilla Glue/Elmer's Probond...or PL Premium poly construction adhesive.

The guys who write the books aren't necessarily the guys who have to repair their work.

[John Bailey]

john, clear kd cedar is going through the roof! last year about this time wholesale was 2.35 now it`s 4.00! and availibility is sketchy here? tod
Tod,

Best we could find here for clear cedar was $106 for an 18' 1x12. That works out to be over $5.80. So, it's the non-clear stuff for us, but we got some pretty good boards. We cut out about 1200 linear ft. of 3/4" wide, 1/4" thick strips today. The vast majority of them had no knots. All the wood cost us $91 for one boat, and that's with the mill planing it for us.

John

[John Bailey]

Please stick with epoxy throughout.

Glass and epoxy doesn't stick to Titebond....that's no real problem in initial construction where the gluelines are so small, but will be a disaster if you or someone else has to feather in a repair later. If you must use a one-part glue because of allergies, use something epoxy sticks to like liquid poly...Gorilla Glue/Elmer's Probond...or PL Premium poly construction adhesive.

The guys who write the books aren't necessarily the guys who have to repair their work.

Bob,

Thanks for the tip. I would have never thought of it that way.

John

[John Kain]

great thread.............

I was entertaining building a one of these 2 years ago. I decided on a simple jon boat..........

I, too, will be watching this thread eagerly........

[Richard Wolf]

Com'on John, no work on the kayak this weekend??

Richard

[John Bailey]

Richard,

We did a bit of work, but it was just laminating the rest of the stems. So, everything would have sounded and looked like what was already posted. Today, Monday, we are supposed to get the cove and bead shaper bits. If we do, we're going to start to shape the strips. I have a feelin' that's going to be a headache at first till we get the hang of it. This morning I'm going to work on building an 8 ft. jig for the long strips. We should have built it when cutting the strips. Live and learn, ya know.

Also, another problem that we're going to have to fix is the mould alignment. When we put the moulds on the strongback, we had to line them up exactly. We needed a couple of deep clamps to hold them down while they were screwed in to the blocks on the strongback. Neither one of us had the clamps, so I held the moulds in position while Glen, my neighber, screwed the holes and put the screws in. Try as we did, there are 3 moulds that are 1/16th" to 1/8th" off. So, yesterday, I went and bought the proper clamps and we'll fix that problem today also. I know, I should have done that in the first place.

John

[David Wilson]

John,
Amother tip. when I alligned the forms on my strongback I used a 18ga brad nailer to do the initial attachment.

[Lon LeBlanc]

John,

I'm brand new to this forum, but caught your kayak thread before anything else.

I'm going to start on a Guillemot early next year....as soon as the garage and workshop are completed. I've got Nick Schade's book, too, and am anxious to get started on one of these "work of art" projects. We live in Lake Arrowhead, CA, and my wife and I have been on the lake a couple of times in rented plastic kayaks. That gave me the kayaking bug. Then, they had a wooden boat show this past summer, and a guy showed up with a wooden kayak. I was hooked, and can't wait to get started.

I'll be checking in to see how your project is going. Thanks for posting pictures and updates.


Lon

[John Bailey]

John,
Amother tip. when I alligned the forms on my strongback I used a 18ga brad nailer to do the initial attachment.

Dave,

Niether one of us have a nail gun, so we'll be doing it the slow way. Thanks for the tip though.

John

[John Bailey]

Our cove and bead shaper bits didn't show up today like we expected. They were to be used on my friends shaper, and he'll be out of town the rest of the week. So, we'll not get too much work done on the kayak this week. I'm gonna' spend a lot of time getting the moulds lined up. It's hard to get a picture of the lines all lined up, but I'll try.

John

[John Bailey]

John,

I'm brand new to this forum, but caught your kayak thread before anything else.

I'm going to start on a Guillemot early next year....as soon as the garage and workshop are completed. I've got Nick Schade's book, too, and am anxious to get started on one of these "work of art" projects. We live in Lake Arrowhead, CA, and my wife and I have been on the lake a couple of times in rented plastic kayaks. That gave me the kayaking bug. Then, they had a wooden boat show this past summer, and a guy showed up with a wooden kayak. I was hooked, and can't wait to get started.

I'll be checking in to see how your project is going. Thanks for posting pictures and updates.


Lon

Lon,

Check the thread that Dave Wilson had about his kayak. I can't remember for sure, but I think his was a Schade kayak also.

John

[Alan Schaffter]

Our cove and bead shaper bits didn't show up today like we expected. They were to be used on my friends shaper, and he'll be out of town the rest of the week. So, we'll not get too much work done on the kayak this week. I'm gonna' spend a lot of time getting the moulds lined up. It's hard to get a picture of the lines all lined up, but I'll try.

John

John, nice WIP thread and pics!

I built an 18' strip canoe from Western Red Cedar many many years ago. People were always marveling at it and asking where I bought it. It had multi-species laminated hardwood decks, gunwhales, and thwarts, caned seats and was still only 62#. I hand beveled the strips where necessary since they didn't have the bead and cove bits for that size yet.

Probably too late now since it sounds like you already ordered shaper cutters, but I saw a rig in one magazine that looked neat- it used bead and cove router bits, installed in separate routers. One router was mounted, "bit up" to the bottom of a plywood board, the other was mounted "bit down" to a small frame which was mounted to the top of the ply board. By attaching and aligning edge guides to the ply so the strips pass between the bits both bead and cove can be cut at the same time. (one router has to be up and the other down so both bits rotate against the feed direction.)

[Lincoln Myers]

I'm enjoying your progress as well.

-Linc

[Richard Wolf]

John, are all 1/4" cove and bead bits the same or are there special ones for interlocking construction of boat hulls?
You have me all excited, I ordered a set of plans from One Ocean Kayak yesterday. Their high volume Cape Ann. I'm not sure how much time I can devote, but completion by next spring is a target.

Thanks
Richard

[John Bailey]

Alan,

Just in case you missed it at the beginning of the thread, we're building two kayaks. My friend, Glen Bell, and I are going to do things a bit different. He's going to use the cove and bead, and I'm going to bevel the edges. There are drawbacks to both and advantages to doing either. Because I have plans for other boats, I want the practice at beveling. How did it go with your canoe? Did you have any trouble with the bevels, and do you have any pictures?

Richard,

Cool, I guess we'll have to have a SMC Kayak Symposium out on Long Island somewhere. I don't know about the bits. I've never used a shaper. We'll show you how it goes next week.

By the way, the boat you see in progress is Glen's boat. We're using my shop and Glen's Laguna bandsaw and Robland slider/combo. I'll be starting mine when we get his done.

John

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Richard. I built a Chestnut Prospector canoe about 10 years ago and found that basically all the bits are the same. Check Lee Valley for canoe bits. They are inexpensive and last a long time. Peter

[David Wilson]

Our cove and bead shaper bits didn't show up today like we expected. They were to be used on my friends shaper, and he'll be out of town the rest of the week. So, we'll not get too much work done on the kayak this week. I'm gonna' spend a lot of time getting the moulds lined up. It's hard to get a picture of the lines all lined up, but I'll try.

John
John another tip
When I set the molds on the strongback I used 2 laser levels mounted on tripods set in the line mode. 1 on each side of the strongback. Was able to shoot a line down each side if the form to line up the shear lines and eyeball the center lines. you could use a therd laser level for the center if you want. this needs to be done with a minimum amount of light in the shop so I covered the windows in the shop and only used one light in the shop. Had wasted a couple days before trying the lasers. You can buy laser levels at Harbor Freight for less than $10.00 each.

Hope this helps.

[John Bailey]

Got back to work on the kayak today. We set up Glen's shaper. He's got a Robland X31 Combo. The first picture you see is the setup we have with the "feather boards." We had some trouble with this because the strips are so thin and long. We finally decided on clamping a thin strip as the board was coming out of the shaper with another board jutting past the thin strip and overlapping the board as it came out.


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Then, as Glen pushed the boards through the shaper, I held a board parrallel to the strip as it came out. This kept the board straight and worked quite well.


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5 hrs. later, we have about 1,400 linear feet of 3/4" wide, 14' long and 1/4" thick, cove and bead, western red cedar and norther white pine.


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Hopefully, tomorrow we'll get to put some strips on the moulds.

John

[Frank Pellow]

John, I am just dropping in to Saw Mill Creek for a couple of days while away from Pellow’s Camp, and discovered this thread. I have enjoyed seeing what you have done so far and look forward to reading more when I finally settle back in Toronto (probably about mid September).

Building a boat (in my case a rowboat) is high up on the list of projects that I want to tackle. I wish that I (like you have done) could find someone to build a pair of boats with. If anyone in the Toronto area is interested in such a jopint project, please contact me. We could probably use my shop.

P.S. I appologize for sort of hyjacking this thread for my purposes.

[John Bailey]

No apologies needed Frank. Hope you find someone to team-up with. I tend to like to work by myself because I tend to work to the beat of a different drummer. But some of these long skinny boards are hard to deal with alone. Maybe when I get mine done, I'll head up and do a few Eskimo rolls at Pellow's Camp.

John

[Frank Pellow]

No apologies needed Frank. Hope you find someone to team-up with. I tend to like to work by myself because I tend to work to the beat of a different drummer. But some of these long skinny boards are hard to deal with alone. Maybe when I get mine done, I'll head up and do a few Eskimo rolls at Pellow's Camp.
John
You would be very welcome there John so I hope that you are serious.

If you do come, an interesting way for you to do so would be to drive to Sault Ste Marie then take the Algoma Central Railway to Hearst where I would meet you. It is very typical for folks to travel that line with canoes and kayaks.

I would like to take you up on your claim that you can teach anyone to roll a kayak. I have never even been in a kayak, so I expexct that teaching me to roll one would a challenge.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hey John, looking good! One thing that I remember doing when I built my Chestnut Prospector, was laying out all the strips in order after they where cut. I reorganized them after the milling to keep all of the colours together lightest to darkest. I used the darkest on the bottom working to lightest at the top. I also saved the 4 darkest strips to make a design near the top edge of the canoe. I also remember reading to only do 3? strips per side before working on the other side so you don't introduce a bend. The fun part is just about to start. Wish I was there with you. Peter

[John Bailey]

I would like to take you up on your claim that you can teach anyone to roll a kayak. I have never even been in a kayak, so I expexct that teaching me to roll one would a challenge.

You're on Frank. As I recall you're fairly tall and lanky. That's the best body build for learning to roll. Unlike my not-so-lanky, build. In addition, I've had great luck with, shall we say, "experienced" folks, because they tend to listen and don't fight the technique like younger folks do. Sea Kayaking is for all ages. We did 300 kilometers around the Greek Island of Caphalonia this summer. I was the youngest at 56. The oldest was a Dr. from Goderich, Ont. We did up to 35 k. a day.

At any rate, maybe next time you go up to the camp next year I can head your way.

John

[John Bailey]

Hey John, looking good! One thing that I remember doing when I built my Chestnut Prospector, was laying out all the strips in order after they where cut. I reorganized them after the milling to keep all of the colours together lightest to darkest. I used the darkest on the bottom working to lightest at the top. I also saved the 4 darkest strips to make a design near the top edge of the canoe. I also remember reading to only do 3? strips per side before working on the other side so you don't introduce a bend. The fun part is just about to start. Wish I was there with you. Peter

Thanks for the good thoughts Peter. It is going to be the fun part when we start the stripping. Then the pictures will be great.

John

[Frank Pellow]

...
At any rate, maybe next time you go up to the camp next year I can head your way.

John
John, Why wait till next year? I am going up again this Friday for a about a week and then again for about a week at the end of September. You are more than welcome either time.

Failing that, I certainly will keep you in mind next year.

[John Bailey]

Sorry Frank, it's very tempting, but I just spent a week over in the Benjamin Is. in Lake Huron with some friends, and I started work today. It's just part-time, but it keeps me in shop money. Besides, we're working on the kayaks every day.

John

[John Bailey]

We started the stripping today. Finally, the fun part. It took a long time to do the shear strip. We had to do it over a couple of times to get it just right. Because there are no straight lines, you just have to eyeball it till there are all fair curves. Below you'll see a number of angles of the shear strip. You'll also see how we're storing the strips. Keeping them above keeps them out of our way and we just reach up any time we need a new one.


4585645857458614586245863



Tomorrow, the stripping should go faster and the progress should be more easily seen.

John

[John Bailey]

Today we ran into a little trouble. We are using an Arrow T-50 stapler. We have 1/2" staples. They wouldn't hold the strips down, so we had to get them set and clamp them. We could only do 3 rows and we'll have to wait until tomorrow to continue, after the glue dries. I think the problem may be one, or both, of two things. First, I think we need longer staples. That's easily resolved, if that's the problem. The other problem may be that we're using plywood instead of MDF. Because the staples go into the edge of the ply, instead of on the flat surface, the holding power may not be enough. If anyone has advice, we are listening. I think it will work by using longer staples, but if not, we'll just have to do a few rows at a time.

Here are the latest pictures.


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Againa, hopefully tomorrow we'll have better luck.

John

[Bob Smalser]

Yes, I have some advise. I'm not a plywood builder but there are dozens of professionals and high-end part-timers who've encountered and solved your problem residing over at woodenboatvb.com.

[John Bailey]

I'll take your advice Bob. Also, in case I wasn't clear, we're using the plywood for the forms, not the strips. We spent about 8 hrs. on the bandsaw and shaper making 1300 linear feet of cedar strips for this project. I rarely do anything with plywood - just doesn't feel right in my hand.

John

[Bob Smalser]

I'll take your advice Bob. Also, in case I wasn't clear, we're using the plywood for the forms, not the strips. We spent about 8 hrs. on the bandsaw and shaper making 1300 linear feet of cedar strips for this project. I rarely do anything with plywood - just doesn't feel right in my hand.

John

They're using plastic staples these days that don't have to be removed.

I've built or helped build literally dozens of boats, but never a stripper.

[John Bailey]

Bob,

A few years back I bought an old sailboat. I needed a tender, so I ordered one of the stitch-and-glue kits. That was my first experience working with fiberglass and I swore I'd never do it again. But, being a sea kayak instructor and guide, I need a kayak and just didn't want a plastic or fiberglass one anymore. So, I sold all 9 boats and decided a stripper was the closest I was going to get to a useable kayak out of wood. After this project, it will be boats made out of "real" wood.

By the way, I signed up for the wooden boat site. Looks like a wealth of information. Thanks.

John

[Bartee Lamar]

Just curious,

what happens to the staples after you remove the forms? Seem like they would be sticking out of the wood.

I had assumed they forms were removed after the all the strips of wood where formed and fiberglassed.

[John Bailey]

Bartee,

I haven't a clue, but I would assume the staples are clear and would blend in with the fiberglass cloth when wetted.

John

[Richard Wolf]

Just my $.02, not that I know much. The information I have read, suggests not using ply for the forms because of the very problem you seem to be having.
Also, all the staples must be removed and the holes filled before glassing.
Use the longest staples you can find. Tapes a piece of thin cardboard on the bottom of the staple gun which will prevent the staples from setting into the strips and make removal easier.

Richard

[John Bailey]

Just my $.02, not that I know much. The information I have read, suggests not using ply for the forms because of the very problem you seem to be having.
Also, all the staples must be removed and the holes filled before glassing.
Use the longest staples you can find. Tapes a piece of thin cardboard on the bottom of the staple gun which will prevent the staples from setting into the strips and make removal easier.

Richard

Thanks Richard,

I suspect you're right about the plywood, but at this point, we'll work around that one. I'm going to find some longer staples. I've been told the "ceiling tile" staples would work well. Does that sound right to you all? I think with the next boat, I may just plan on taking my time and clamping everything so I don't have to deal with the staple holes. Just considering at this point.

John

[Jeff Horton]

Another source of good information is the Kayak forum. As the name implies they are talk kayaks almost exclusively. Lets hope the link doesn't get removed as it has in my other posts!

http://www.kayakforum.com/

Since I have no reason to believe the link will not be removed even thought I read that it should be allowed
type in www dot kayakforum dot com

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi John. When I built my canoe I used particle board forms [stations]. I have a cheap electric staple gun that will only take 1/2" staples maximum. The gun did not have enough power to sink the staple so removing them was easy. I do not recall any problems with the holding power of the staple. My only guess is the plywood, I would try shooting a staple into some scrap stripping material and see how much presure it takes to remove it. I am thinking that maybe the forced bend of your shear strip is causing the staples to pop. The shear strip on a canoe is not following the gunnel sp.? but rather a much smoother [straighter] line. On the Chestnut Prospector that I built if the strips follow the gunnels then the canoe looks like a banana. You just made your first strip sligtly curved and filled in the upper strips from there. One other thing to try might be to wrap some band clamps aroung the more compound bends to take the strain off of the staple. Hope this helps. Peter

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hey John, where are we at on that boat?

[John Bailey]

Peter,

We're coming close to having the bottom planked. I'll have some pictures tomorrow. We're learing a lot. One of the things we did was to use golf club grip tape for band clamps. Worked like a champ. I just happen to have some around from a by gone hobby of golf club making. One spot was was pretty tough, so we used duct tape. As usual, it worked great. We're to the point of having to fit every plank on both ends. Very time consuming.

John

[John Bailey]

Here are the pictures I promised. As you can see, we're almost done with the hull planking. We should finish the planking today and start sanding tomorrow. I've included a couple of shots of the boats and another of the neat little jig we devised to plane and shape the strips. Had to shape on edge, but couldn't clamp down on the edge for fear of damaging the cove. So, a couple of pieces of wood screwed the thickness of the strips apart and a wedge - and it couldn't have been easier.

Another problem we had was clamping the sides after we had glued. Because of the curve of the boat, the clamps would invariably fall off. We solved this by using some old golf club grip tape I had sitting around. Worked slick. At one point, we had to use some duct tape for better holding power. We're a little concered the duct tape may tear off some wood fibers when we take it off today. If not, we will use it much more.


Two views of the boat.

4620446205

Neat little jig for shaping the strips.

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Should have some pictures of the planked hull tonight.

John

[tod evans]

john, in the second pic you show the strips that follow the shape of the boat joining those that follow the centerline of the bottom......how are those joined? will you rely on fiberglass for structural integrity, or do the cedar strips provide some? i`m versed in canoes not kayaks and the cedar ones are really fragile for use in our local rivers, this got me to wondering how well one of these boats will fair if they take an impact from a rock? thanks, tod

[John Bailey]

Todd,

Any strength that may come from the cedar is strickly the function of being the inside of 3 layers. Just like plywood. Although the boat will look like a wood boat, it will really be a fiberglass boat with cedar strips as the core between two layers of fiberglass. This process ends up making a very strong boat.

John

[tod evans]

thanks, john...

[John Bailey]

We've haven't been doing much work on the kayak lately. Glen is in Arkansas (lucky guy) and won't be back for 10 days. We've got the hull done.


4726247263


Then we wrapped it up and transported it to his house while he's gone.


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We were having some trouble with the concave curves. So, I took an old plane and ground the edges so we could get at the concave sections. Worked pretty well.


47265


It'll be awhile, but we'll update as soon as we get started again. In the meantime, I'm gonna start on another boat.

John

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for the update John. The hull is very attractive.

Now, with all that experience on nyour friend's hull, things should really fly when you are building yours. :D

[Art Mulder]

I thought that you would have glassed the hull before taking it off the form?
I helped a fellow glass a cedar strip canoe a few years back (I was the unskilled labour... :o ) and he still had it on the form.

Hmm, I just had another thought... A Kayak has a deck, so how are you going to glass the inside of it!? :confused:

Looking good, John.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Art. I think that the top is built as a separate unit. The inside of the boat is glassed and inside of the top then the two get mated together and the entire outside is glassed. I think.......Peter

[David Wilson]

The kayak is built in 2 pieces, hull and deck. The two pieces are glassed on the outside first wile on the strongback with staples removed. The strongback keeps the piece from warping. The piece is then removed from the strongback and the inside is glassed. The 2 pieces are them glassed together. At least this is how I built mine.

[John Bailey]

The kayak, in this case, was wraped with plastic and duct tape with the strongback still in place. That was done because we weren't going to work on it for awhile and we wanted to make sure that it stay in shape. In fact, the hull and deck are built separately and joined later.

John

[Kurt Loup]

John,

3/4" wide 3M strapping tape works great. No residue is left on bare wood or epoxy/fiberglass. Duct tape didn't work for me.

Kurt

http://www.loup-garou.net/sitebuilder/images/Apr_26_hull-243x264.jpg

[John Bailey]

Kurt,

We've started to use strapping tape also. Although, the duct tape was working fine with no residue. Nice looking boat, how about some details, or is it on another thread? I'd like to see.

John

[Jeff Horton]

John, what length strips are you using? I have several larger beams of Western Red Cedar I was thinking of resawing. But the longest one is 10'. Of course and I can scarf them, but just curious what you ended up with.

[Lon LeBlanc]

John,

I'm working through my Rotary group, a teak warehouse owner, some private contributors, the County Probation Department, and the local middle & high schools, to start a program for teenagers who are slipping through the cracks, and getting into drugs and gangs. In a nutshell, we'd provide funds and materials, if the schools would provide supervision and mentoring to these kids, and get them involved in crafting Kayaks...or strip-built canoes. I've even received tentative approval for a "Wooden Kayak Show" and kayak races on Lake Arrowhead (private lake) a year or two down the road.

Here's my question: Since I haven't built one of these yet, do you think....based on your experience so far....that teenagers as young as say...13 or 14 could do something like this...assuming proper supervision, of course? These wooden kayaks are such a work of art, that it just seems like they might be the conduit to turn a kid around....get them excited about creating something....finding an artistic outlet...giving them some pride.

Your thoughts?

Lon

[Jeff Horton]

I have not built one but everything I read makes me think "yes they could". I think you just need to find a plan for an easier to build boat. Mac Mc'carthy's Wee Lass canoe comes to mind.

You also might want to consider stitch and glue plywood boats. They have the advantage of being faster to build. And if you use a good plywood and finish it natural they are still beautiful boats.

[John Bailey]

Just a short update. We finished glassing the hull.


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John

[John Bailey]

Here's my question: Since I haven't built one of these yet, do you think....based on your experience so far....that teenagers as young as say...13 or 14 could do something like this...assuming proper supervision, of course? These wooden kayaks are such a work of art, that it just seems like they might be the conduit to turn a kid around....get them excited about creating something....finding an artistic outlet...giving them some pride.

Your thoughts?

Lon

Lon,

It's the perfect project. I think the idea of doing a stitch and glue might be easier, but either way, they can do it. I was a high school principal for 16 yrs. We started a sea kayak club. We had a number of students build there own paddles and one built his own boat. You need a place to do the project, and you need good supervision. The kids won't have the patience of an adult, you'll have to keep them on task. Also, some of the kids will lose interest, but the ones who see it through will gain a ton of self esteem and confidence.

When you get it done, let them paddle it. They'll love it.

John

[Kurt Loup]

Kurt,

We've started to use strapping tape also. Although, the duct tape was working fine with no residue. Nice looking boat, how about some details, or is it on another thread? I'd like to see.

John

John,

The boat in the picture is a Merlin canoe. I've built a couple canoes and kayaks. Below with the Merlin is the Outer Island kayak I build a few years ago.

http://www.loup-garou.net/May27quarterview.JPG

http://www.loup-garou.net/sitebuilder/images/outerisland-650x207.jpg

I have more pictures of the boats I have built on my webpage (http://www.loup-garou.net/boatbuilding.html)

Kurt

[John Bailey]

John, what length strips are you using? I have several larger beams of Western Red Cedar I was thinking of resawing. But the longest one is 10'. Of course and I can scarf them, but just curious what you ended up with.

Jeff,

We used 12' and 14' lengths. As advised in the Schrade book, we butt jointed the strips on the moulds. I think I might scarph the pieces with the next boat.

John

[John Bailey]

John,

The boat in the picture is a Merlin canoe. I've built a couple canoes and kayaks. Below with the Merlin is the Outer Island kayak I build a few years ago.
Kurt

Nice work Kurt. What kind of wood did you use for the bottom of the hull. The light colour is nice.

John

[Kurt Loup]

Nice work Kurt. What kind of wood did you use for the bottom of the hull. The light colour is nice.

John

The bottom of the hull of the kayak is cypress with western red cedar sides and Spanish cedar deck. The laminated bow and stern is ash. The coaming is carbon fiber. The sides of the canoe are cypress and Spanish cedar with mahogany laminated bow and stern, ash gunwales and mahogany seat cross members. I use a lot of cypress since it is readily available around hear. Clear cedar is hard to come by.

Kurt

[Kent Cartwright]

John:

Wow, what a sweet kayak! You might be getting a visit, as you are doing something I have always talked about, but have never done! I am also curious which lumberyard you are working with. Nicely done, sir!

Kent

[John Bailey]

John:

Wow, what a sweet kayak! You might be getting a visit, as you are doing something I have always talked about, but have never done! I am also curious which lumberyard you are working with. Nicely done, sir!

Kent

Kent,

You're always welcome. PM me and I'll give you directions. We've moved the kayak out of my shop and into my neighbor's. If you read the other post, you'll see we are going to build two, and this one is his. I won't be starting mine till sometime after the new year. I've started on a 15' sailboat that I'm going to build before I start the kayak.

We got the wood at Metalski's in Boyne Falls. We didn't get clear cedar, but they let you go back in the yard and pick through everything to get the best boards. They've been very helpful. I get all my wood there if they have it.

John

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I still want to know how you got the forms out.

[Jeff Horton]

I still want to know how you got the forms out.

You build the hull and deck separate. Then join them together off the forms.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You build the hull and deck separate. Then join them together off the forms.

Thanks.
Simple direct and ovbious.
If it were a snake - - - .