Jointer Education

[Michael Merrill]

OK, this post is some questions and some recent observations.

First, please don't tear into me for my current equipment. I currently own a Delta benchtop jointer, space is a preimium for my 22' X 13' shop that also gives up 3' X 6' for a garden storage space. I need more room!

On my recent project which I need to edge glue 5/4 and 4/4 maple for a head and foot board I noticed a how difficult getting a good edge was. The peices I'm running on the jointer are about 76"-80" in length, this small jointer is only about 26" in length:mad:.

Basically, with any jointer you would seem to only be making straight the given length of the tools bed at a given time? On my tool that mean I am only getting a 26" straight pass and moving this along the piece. If I had a 48" bed jointer, I would have much more accurate edges. Is this thinking correct:confused:

Also, when running piece through the tool for edge jointer how much downward pressure is needed? Another thing I notice is that on longer pieces the pressure will vary and therefore the cut is varied a bit as well.

Given all this my pieces are coming together but not without many passes on the jointer to get things right, but I'm certain I'm working way too hard to just get an edge ready for glueing. I'm looking into ways to incorporate a 48" 6" jointer but also wanted feedback on this first.

All perspectives are appreciated.

[Don Baer]

If it were me I'd use a glue line rip blade on the table saw and edge joint em on the TS.

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Michael. I hear you. I used to have the Delta benchtop jointer - what a pain! I tried attaching shop made outfeed tables to the jointer and they helped a little, but its probably not wise to try to joint anything longer than a yard or so. I recently acquired a reasonably sized shop and the first thing I upgraded was the jointer.

For longer boards, you might try the previous advice to edge joint them with a tablesaw or with a router and a guide. A jointer plane would cost you a few $$ and take some serious elbow grease, but personally I enjoy using it a lot more than the machinery. You can also take them to a lumberyard and have them milled for a small charge.

When you are thinking about getting a new larger jointer, one of the great things is that it needs almost no clearance away from the wall. I have mine on a mobile base and move it out of the way when I won't need it for a while.

By the way, don't put much pressure on the boards - let the tool do the work!

Hope this helps.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The jointer, if set up correctly, should do nicely.

Of course it's be nice to have an aircraft carrier for a jointer but hey it's still all in the technique.

[Lee Schierer]

Your jointer is a bit small for pieces that long. You really need a larger jointer or use the TS method others have suggested.

You can use a router with a straight template to joint the edges. I think Wood magazine or Workbench magazine did an article on this a while back.

As far as pressure goes, you don't want to press down too hard or you may flex the board and produce and uneven edge. With the oard on the infeed table you apply downward pressure and pressure against the fence as you slide the board across the cutter, once you have a length on the out feed table that is nearly the length of the outfeed table you want to switch your grip to the outfeed side and apply downward pressure only on the outfeed table. This will give you your best edge.

[Kent Fitzgerald]

An oft-cited rule of thumb is that you can joint boards up to about 2x the total bed length of the jointer. Having done 7' boards on my 45" long jointer, I think that's a pretty fair guideline. So, a 6" standard bed jointer would be an improvement, but then you're just going to want an 8" eventually.:)

Downward pressure should be just enough to keep the board in solid contact with the tables. The problem, as you've likely found, is that when you have a long board cantilevered way off the end of the table, it takes a lot of down force to keep it contact. This in turn makes it hard to get a "feel" for consistent pressure through the entire pass.

[Jerry Olexa]

What Kent said: Double the bed length is max. I had a chance to buy a BT recently and passed on it for that reason. Most rough stock is 7-9 ft long. You'll prob want an 8" eventually...:)

[Tom Jones III]

It sounds like you're on the right track and the suggestions you have received so far are great. I only have one thing to add, given your jointer I would not try to use it for the really long pieces and would instead use a #7 or #8 hand plane. True, if you buy a LN it will cost $$$, however I made my own with scrap wood and a $30 iron and it works great. Here is the thread on the one I made http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24410.

[Michael Merrill]

This thread is confirming what I had thought, the BT jointer is just too small for long boards. As for the use of a hand plane to get edges true for edge glueing I'm not too sur eI trust my ability with the hand plane there! I think a 48" jointer will need to be in my future. I agree that the 8" is desirable but with size and money issue I'll have to stick with the 6" models.

[Burt Waddell]

Michael,

There are several techniques that would work well for this. One that hasn't been mentioned is the EZ Smart guide system. With a good blade the EZ will give you glue quality cuts just like a good table saw. If you want to add a little better edge, put a hand held electric planer on the Smart Router Kit and get a perfect edge. Either process can be done in limited space. To learn more go to www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com) oe visit the EZ forum right here on sawmill creek. Infact here is a link to a photo on the ez forum.


http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40929








Burt

[Don Baer]

Or he could spend his money and buy the Festool Guided system. If your gonna plug one Guided system you need to give fair time to the other one too. I don't have either not going to spend my money on more tools I'd rather buy more wood.

[Al Willits]

Just wondering, would them roller stands help with joining long boards???
Thinking of also getting them for my planer maybe.

Al

[Burt Waddell]

Or he could spend his money and buy the Festool Guided system. If your gonna plug one Guided system you need to give fair time to the other one too. I don't have either not going to spend my money on more tools I'd rather buy more wood.

Don,

Two reasons I didn't include Festool:

1 - Their guide rail flexes to match the twist of the wood. I don't think that would work well for a straightline cut. ( It would work on perfect stock)

2 - Festool does not offer a planer for use in this fashion.

When they have these options available, I'll give them credit and include them.

Burt

[Burt Waddell]

Don,

I have just been corrected. You can put a piece of 3/4" plywood under the festool rail to stiffen it and use the Smart Router Kit that EZ Smart makes for the Festool and do the same thing. Just remember - either way - the EZ is essential.

Burt

[Pete Bradley]

It's not clear from your post what problem you're having. when you say you're not getting a "good edge", what do you mean? I suspect that you may be having trouble holding long boards tightly against the fence.

I always take a final pass with #7. I don't have a L-N, just a Record. With the boards clamped back to back, it's not rocket science and it makes a perfect joint.

Pete

[Michael Merrill]

Well roller stands don't help with the accuracy needed but they help a bit.

Pete it sounds like what you are suggesting is to clamp the boards together back-to-back with the glue edges up and then take a final pass, Right?

Now what are you using? #7? L-N? Record? Sorry I'm not familiar with any of these?

[Tom Jones III]

For the people who think the hand plane is too hard ... This is the plane I made. The size is between a #7 and #8. Victoria is going in to the 1st grade this year. She made a step stool from 4/4 rough poplar using only hand tools.

[Don Baer]

For the people who think the hand plane is too hard ... This is the plane I made. The size is between a #7 and #8. Victoria is going in to the 1st grade this year. She made a step stool from 4/4 rough poplar using only hand tools.

Tom,
I agree with you. Thats why when I was setting up my temp shop I'm not to concerned about getting the jointer ot of storage due to a lack of space. If I can't get acceptable glue line rips from the TS I'll just clean em up with a hand plane. On my next few projects. :D Who know I may never set it up..

[Jeff Morgan]

Tom,
I agree with you. Thats why when I was setting up my temp shop I'm not to concerned about getting the jointer ot of storage due to a lack of space. If I can't get acceptable glue line rips from the TS I'll just clean em up with a hand plane. On my next few projects. :D Who know I may never set it up..

I completely agree. I have a jointer but rarely use it. It is so easy and
rewarding to use my jointer plane.

[Matt Day]

I highly recommend using the router with a straight edge. I used this method to make an 8' long table out out of about (6) 6" wide pieces of maple, and it worked great.

[Michael Merrill]

OK, this certainly has been educational for me. I'm surprised that edge jointing to build panels isn't the standard procedure but OK. I can see the process of TS rip followed by some "finish" planing to get things just right would make sense.

I looked at LV planes and did see that there is even an edgeing guide for this type of process. Are those of you who do plane using something like this or just going freehand? Seems like with a poor hand you could have to return to the TS to fix a fouled plane mistake?

[Jeff Morgan]

I looked at LV planes and did see that there is even an edgeing guide for this type of process. Are those of you who do plane using something like this or just going freehand? Seems like with a poor hand you could have to return to the TS to fix a fouled plane mistake?

My approach really depends upon the thickness of the board to be joined.
My jointer plane has a 2" wide iron. If the boards I am joining are 7/8" or
thinner I just place the two boards on my bench with the faces to be
joined clamped together face to face. This produces the best joint
possible sicne both boards are guaranteed to have the same angle for
the joining faces. If the board is thicker then I plane them individually.
I have never used a guide and have not experienced any problems.

-Jeff

[Tom Jones III]

I have also never used a guide. What Jeff is saying about two boards at once it that even if you are off, the boards will have complementary angles, i.e. 89* and 91* so the boards will come together perfectly.

[Quesne Ouaques]

Hi Michael:

No one should rip into you for having to compromise on space or budget. I jointed my boards for 5 years on a thickness planer and router table before I could afford a jointer.

I often find myself in a similar situation. Even very recently, I had to flatten four 50" long walnut boards on my 6" Ridgid jointer. Jointing boards that are much longer than the infeed table is a real challenge. Mostly, however, it requires only a slight change in technique.

There are several rules of thumb that people have given, and these are good guidelines, but if you understand the tool and modify your technique based on the wood you have in hand, you can get away with much more than you might think. A perfect example of this is jointing a long, cupped board.

Under normal circumstances, you would lay the board on the infeed table cup down, so that each corner of the board get cut by the knives on the first one or two passes. Eventually, of course, the knives will work their way toward the center of the board and, voila, you get a nice flat board. You could call this standard method of flattening a cupped board "from the bottom up".

If you try this with a long board whose edge is hanging out over the side of the infeed table, however, you are likely to come away with very different results, especially if the degree of cupping is greater than the depth of the cut. This is because, as the board gets fed onto the knives, the cupped edges tend to "lift" the board onto the infeed table and away from the knives, ruining the flatness of the cut.

So what to do? Change your technique. Turn the board over and start by carefully cutting a flat area at the very top of the crown of the cup (I say carefully because the board will rock unless you keep it under control). Pick the high spot based on inspection of the board and keep pressure on the exact same "high" spot each time you run the board across the knives and onto the outfeed table.

Your starting cuts will not begin at the edges of the board as they normally would but rather toward the center. On each subsequent cut, make sure you are running the same flat area along the surface of the tables by keeping pressure on the exact same "high" spot. The board will want to rock and find it's own "flat" area. The trick is to exert your own control over the board and cut only from the flat area outward.

Eventually, the high spot will grow into a perfectly flat reference area, and you will have an adequate flat area on the infeed table to guide the rest of the board over the knives. This is how I flatten boards "from the top down" and I've found that it allows me to flatten boards that are considerably longer than the infeed table.

P.S. Your edge cuts can be done in a similar way, of course, cutting the "high" area(s) down first to establish a flat reference surface from which the rest of the edge can be made flat.