Guitar modifications

[Noah Alkinburgh]

I have a co-worker that is a very talented musician who plays in a band and also does some recording. He recently purchased a new electric guitar but it has a square back not a scalloped or dished out back like his other ones. He has asked me if I would be able to do this for him. I think it could be done with something as simple as a spoke shave but wanted to get some opinions on this.

My concerns are that it is already laquered and finished. I don't know what the wood is that is under the guitar. He has told me that he really likes playing this, is not concerened with finish after modification as its on the back and is most concerened with it being cofortable, as he is sick of bruised ribs after playing an entire set with it.

What say you sages of the creek? Is this doable? Should I go for it?

Noah

[Mark Mazzo]

Noah,

I'm a guitar player as well as a woodworker. What you describe is possibly doable, but it might depend on what make/model of guitar it is. Possibly more important than how you propose to do it is information about the guitar itself. From your description it sounds like a new solid-body electric. If so, this is probably done relatively easily, but it will affect the future value of the guitar. Of course if it's a vintage guitar that is just new to your friend then that's a completely different story.

My suggestion would be to go to the Musical Instrument Makers Forum (http://www.mimf.com) and ask the question on the appropriate forum there. There are very knowledgable people there and I'm sure that you'll get the info that you need.

Hope that this helps.

-- Mark

[Steven Wilson]

Does it have a bolt on neck or is it a straight through body design? If it's a bolt on then it's very easy to work on or even make a new body for it. If it's a straight through neck design then you're going to have to be a bit carefull with it. Now, I assume that your friend wants you to sculpt around the sides and not really in the middle of a body (i.e. he wants the body to be like a Stratocaster). If so then a spoke shave will work as will rasps and even an angle grinder with a power caving disk on it. You will need to protect the finish and you'll probably want to score through the finish around the limits of the area that you're going to work. This will prevent chipped finish from running into the good area. The wood is most likely alder, mahogany, or maple although other woods can be used. As for finishing the back will need to be refinished. Lacquer and some acrylics are typically used although oil and shellac are sometimed use on electrics. If you know the maker then you should be able to find out what kind of finish was used (either ask the manufacture, hang out in luthier forums, or call LMI or Stewart MacDonald for opinions). If the back finish is heavilly toned ( like many Fenders and Gibsons) then you should be able to feather back the top coats, apply a primer and base color coats, sand it out smooth and reshoot the top coats. Unless you're using a heat cured finish you'll want to let the finish cure a month before rubbing out and letting the guitar back into use. If you shoot the finish during the week and he gigs with it the following week the new finish will be crap in short order. If the back finish a stain followed by top coats you'll probably want to refinish the entire back with something a bit less translucent and darker. If the back finish is a sunburst then you'll probably want to sand off the sunburst and reshoot it or shoot a solid color instead.

Of course if the body is a bolt on then the best solution is to make a new body, finish it and then mount the neck on it and transfer over the hardware (or use new hardware).

[Noah Alkinburgh]

Ok here it goes: The guitar in question is an Epiphone Les Paul (s100?) It does have a bolt on neck, but he is not so interested in that. This is his utility guitar. Bought it cheap and is like his beater...the problem is that he wears it high and it bruises his ribs.

He also has an older Kramer that has the contour that he likes and wants it patterened after that. Having it out of commission for a month to finish probably isn't an option either. He almost took a belt sander to it this weekend cause he hurt so bad :D

[Brad Schafer]

Ok here it goes: The guitar in question is an Epiphone Les Paul (s100?) It does have a bolt on neck, but he is not so interested in that. This is his utility guitar. Bought it cheap and is like his beater...the problem is that he wears it high and it bruises his ribs.

He also has an older Kramer that has the contour that he likes and wants it patterened after that. Having it out of commission for a month to finish probably isn't an option either. He almost took a belt sander to it this weekend cause he hurt so bad :D

s100 is a Guild model. I'd guess it's just a Les Paul 100 (clone). Neck is definitely a bolt-on, and it's a solid-body (electronix should be out of the way). They go for around $250-300 new.

If he *really* doesn't care about the finish, you could probably just round over the edges with a belt (or table) sander ... but be careful about all that dust getting in the Humbuckers and pots. I'd want it sealed, too, so it doesn't draw damp and be a witch to keep in tune.

One wonders why he didn't play it at length initially ...


b (if it's too loud, you're too old) :p

[Noah Alkinburgh]

One wonders why he didn't play it at length initially ...


b (if it's too loud, you're too old) :p

Brad...he got a Great deal on it and loves the sound....it was a trade off.

[Steven Wilson]

What's the color? Go over to Stewart MacDonald and get a couple of cans of precolored instrument lacquer (to match the back) and a couple of cans of clear. Take the neck, bridge, and endpins off and then bolt a piece of scrap wood (i.e. a 1x3) where the neck use to be. You can use this to hold the guitar while finishing it. Clean the guitar with naptha and tape off the top well (use the blue 3m masking tape).

Now mark off the area for the scallops with a sharpie and then score the finish with a very sharp knife (a marking knife works well). Attack the wood with whatever you want (I would start with an angle grinder but I've done this before) and then refine the shape with rasps (Nicholson 49 & 50's are great for this) and a spoke shave. Finally sand to 220 and feather in to the existing finish. Now if you want to do a nice overspray of the back you can mask off the sides and top (to leave a nice line), sand off a couple of finish coats, and then apply your base color coats (nice and thin, it will take a couple of coats to build the color correctly); this goes quick because lacquer dries fast (use plenty of ventilation). Once the base color coats are done you can spray the top coats. You will probably need to feather in the new top coats with the old. This might involve removing some of the masking tape so that you can feather it in. Let it dry for a week (a month is better) and then buff out. It should look decent

[Brad Schafer]

Brad...he got a Great deal on it and loves the sound....it was a trade off.

Well, IMO unless a guy is real careful, he could trash the value of the guitar. Assuming this is really the 100 model (~$300), there's not much to worry about. If not, I'd be pretty loathe to fool with it unless prepared to start doing intricate finish matching work; some of those things are "edge dressed" (sorry - dunno how else to describe it). Call me a wuss :D , but finish work just ain't my strong suit. :rolleyes:

Slight aside - personally, I never cared for Pauls. I've played a bunch, and they just don't feel good in my hand.

I've attached 2 pix of my Swede, which is a VERY comfortable play. In the 1st, hopefully you can see how the "sculpting" is done. In the 2nd, you can get an idea of the "edge dressing" on the front of the guitar.


Hard to believe this thing is almost 25 years old ...


b

[Phil Phelps]

....you'll need to take all the parts off and rework the thing. Then try to finish it will be a nightmare. And who's gonna' put it back together? I'd tell him to get used to the way it feels. Then save your money and buy a Stratocaster. I've had mine since 1960. Outstanding guitar. Especially when played through a Fender Twin.

[Jim Becker]

He also has an older Kramer that has the contour that he likes and wants it patterened after that.

I have an old Kramer (with the aluminum "horseshoe" neck) and if my memory serves me correctly (I'm not "close" to it at the moment...like 1500 miles away) any contouring on the back of the body is very minimal. (But it is one HEAVY instrument...narrow straps need not apply!!) But I could be wrong about it, as it hasn't been out of the case for awhile.

[Steven Wilson]

The edge dressing you mention is binding; it takes a little practice to work with it but it's not too hard. The most difficult part of the operation is accurately routing the chanel for it to sit in (laminate trimmer or dremel with a good base are often used); after that it's just glueing it in and clamping (lots of large rubber bands). Then you pull out your card scraper and finish it smooth to the top.

[Jerry Crawford]

...I'm not a musician and I didn't sleep in Holiday In last night, but has your friend considered some kind of fitted pad rather than taking a hatchet to his guitar? Violin players ofted are seen with a hanky tucked under their chin for comfort as they hold their instrument so a pad on a session instrument shouldn't take away any of his ambiance. :confused:

[Phil Phelps]

...I'm not a musician and I didn't sleep in Holiday In last night, but has your friend considered some kind of fitted pad rather than taking a hatchet to his guitar? Violin players ofted are seen with a hanky tucked under their chin for comfort as they hold their instrument so a pad on a session instrument shouldn't take away any of his ambiance. :confused:

Not bad for a non musician, Jerry. I think the only time a guitar cuts into your body is when you are in an easy chair or in an unorthodox position. Standing is not really a problem, it's the weight that eats you up. Some of those Mexican guitars are the size of base fiddles, though.

[Jim Becker]

I think the only time a guitar cuts into your body is when you are in an easy chair or in an unorthodox position. Standing is not really a problem, it's the weight that eats you up.

The owner of the guitar apparently plays with it strapped way up high...and that can set up for some uncomfortable ribs if the edge is too "sharp". Not too many folks play this way, but I can understand the pain it can cause.

[Noah Alkinburgh]

The owner of the guitar apparently plays with it strapped way up high...and that can set up for some uncomfortable ribs if the edge is too "sharp". Not too many folks play this way, but I can understand the pain it can cause.

Jim, you are correct. He wears up that high b/c for a long time he was also lead singer. He needed to have it up that high to see it and still be able to keep his head up.

Noah

[Jim Becker]

Jim, you are correct. He wears up that high b/c for a long time he was also lead singer. He needed to have it up that high to see it and still be able to keep his head up.

LOL! Sounds like one of my problems when playing guitar...as a non-guitarist (keyboard player) I have to "monitor" the fretboard with my eyes a lot!

[David Robinson]

The whole reason I got into woodworking was to make guitars, and I've done this several times. The easiest / quickest way is with a belt sander. Simply take a marker of some sort to define the area of the rib cut (that's what it's most often called, though it's also known as a beer gut cut) and start eating away with the sander. If your friend is only worried about the rib bruising, there should be no reason to cut into the top side or mess with the binding. I'm not familiar with that specific model Epiphone, but it's rare to have binding on the back side, especially on the korean import guitars like Epiphone. It can be done with all parts attached. Just mask them off first. Not just the electronics, mask the bridge/tailpiece too. I'd want to seal it also, and if he truly doesn't care he could get a spray bomb from home depot to cover the newly exposed wood himself. Though ready to shoot spray lacquers are available from online suppliers like StewMac and Reranch for under $10. To see lots of pics of prepainted bodies with the rib cut in place, look in the showcase section of Warmoths website.

links:
http://www.stewmac.com
http://www.reranch.com
http://www.warmoth.com