I can't take it! I need to introduce myself.

[Chris Ploog]

Hello all,

I have been watching this forum for a good year and a half now. But I kept telling myself I can't get involved in another web forum. Though I find myself coming here almost daily. I'm breaking down and going to start posting here.
Right now I am shopless. Horrible, I know, I have been going through MAJOR tool withdrawl. Currently, my wife and I are having a house built and we ended up selling ours much sooner than expected. Thus all tools are in storage getting no use and are only getting rusty.

The only thing that has been keeping me sane during all of this is looking forward to a new shop. So I modeled up a new shop in Pro Engineer (3D CAD system, a tool I use at work and at home.).

This past week I read the Taunton Press "Small Woodworking Shops," revisited parts of "Setting Up Shop" and am currently reading "The Workshop." With all the pointers in these books, I tried to apply as much sense as possible. I attached (going to attempt to...) a JPG of my proposed basement shop. Most of the machine shapes are crude, but the flootprint should be accurate enough to get the idea across. The JPG shows 4 views of the shop, hopefully capturing a good majority of the shop.

I have changed this layout several times already and think I am at my witts end and really could use some input at this time. Please keep in mind I don't have all these tools at this time, but plan to acquire them shortly after moving in and tried to plan for the space being used. Also I tried making a seperate machine area and hand tool area. My last shop was half this size and I would like to try keeping the areas seperate this time. Though I moved my last shop 5 times before I was finally happy with the layout(took about 2 yrs to get there, 8 months later we sold!), I plan on trying to move it less this time as I am a little more familiar with my work habits.
Please feel free to point out anything I may have missed. Looking forward to hearing some good responces,

Chris

[Chris Ploog]

Just to clearify some things, as I had to shrink down this image pretty small to meet the size requirement on the forum...

The big white cabinet is going to be a miter station, I just didn't draw in the SCMS (which is a Bosch 4410L)

The 4 x 8 piece of plywood in the middle of the machine area is an area I plan to use with sawhorses for assembly or routers or whatever, but prolly won't be setup like that at all times, allowing better manuverability around the shop.

The boxed off section with the pink and brown shelves is the utility room which has the hot water heater and furnace in. The pink shelves and wood shelves currently hold portable tools and all kinds of junk.

The red box is my craftsman roll away cart that currently holds most of my hand tools, but I would like to put these on the back wall of the bench this time as I did not have enough space to do that in the last shop.

White box thing in the corner is going to be a spray booth. I recently bought a PSH1 and I have a large air compressor, which I plan to leave in the garage and pipe in air lines. I do have a few windows in the basement, one right where the spray booth is, but I don't have exact measurments on those at this time...

Tall 2x4 object across from spray booth is a simple clamp rack I use to store my long pipe clamps on. Crude, but functional. With a slop sink next to it. It is here cause in the model we saw, I noticed access to the water lines here.

Grey box by the big lathe (I don't have one of these yet, but I do have a small lathe that will go there for now) is the eletrical panel and the black circle on the ground is the sump pump.

I think that points out most of the stuff that may be confussing.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Welcome, Chris!

I cannot help you with the shop layout--I work in a 12x12 area...but if you need to shoe-horn something in that cavern, let me know and I'd be glad to help <g>.

When I had my large, leased space, things kept moving around for the entire time I had it--except the large machinery. But we did build and move storage solutions several times, as well as bench and assembly areas.

Ours was a large open space. I think once the decision is made to segment the space, it gets a lot easier. Maybe. I know for now I have learned to make use of this space [OK, and the kitchen and dining rooms of the house <g>...].

Again, welcome. Mike

[D.McDonnel "Mac"]

Chris,

Welcome!

I think the drawings are a little confusing being nested the way they are but other than that the layout looks workable. Where is the access point for the shop? Is there a stairway? Do you have outside access? To me having had a basement shop there were two things that I needed, easier access and more headroom. I was always fighting to get things into and out of the basement.
I agree that you will have 3 or 4 itterations before you arrive at the ideal arrangement. Then you'll get another big tool and the rearangement begins anew!

Enjoy the journey!

Mac

[tod evans]

welcome chris! why is the view mirriored? how much of the rectangular space can be devoted to your shop? is there a bearing wall running down the middle? if so is it to late to replace it with a steel beam? your drawings leave me scratching my two remaining hairs?? tod

[Lars Thomas]

Welcome Chris. I think you may get better feedback if you just posted one view (so it could be larger). Anyway, welcome to the creek.

I'm not far from you - Geneva. Lars

[David Wilson]

Chris
Welcome aboard.

[Lincoln Myers]

Welcome to the Creek Chris. As you know, this is a great place. LOTS of knowledgable people, you'll learn a lot here (I have).

I'm not too far from you in Fox River Grove IL. I need to get out to The Hardwood Connection in Sycamore, been a while.

-Linc

[Chris Ploog]

Yeah, I had a feeling these pics wouldn't cut it. I know how important quality pics are around here :rolleyes:

I removed the nesting and tried a little larger with this series of pics.

I know I am going to end up moving things around, but I really want to shoot for a really good layout to start as my machines are in storage. This way I can put the epoxy floor down, drywall or seal the walls and lay the raised wood floor area. I can't think of any other machines I have coming into the house than these? I mean I would love a real slider TS, but I'm not moving it down and I sure don't want to move it out! The plus to moving things in here is open the front door and it is a straight shot down the stairs. No bends or turns this time!

BTW, the stairs to the basement are between the surface planer and hand tool room. Little confussing as I did not model them as stairs (waste of time) and drew what represents a ramp.

As far as reinforment posts. If my mind serves me correctly, the model had an I-beam on top of the foundation that ran parallel with the long wing of the basment as the "knocked out area" is the garage pad and the second floor lives over the garage. I don't remember seeing any reinforcement poles in the middle. Though I will be going back to the model soon to get more exact measurments (IE windows and utility placements)

Chris

[Dan Oliphant]

Chris, welcome, as an active member of the forum.
Couple of questions, are the stairs your only access in and out of the shop? Will you have any natural light coming into the shop? How do you plan on air circulation (fresh air)? What lighting plan do you have at this point? What is the floor to ceiling clearence? I ask this thinking about ducting and fresh air flow.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Welcome Chris!!

With a basement shop, you really have to control your dust, because you are not going to open the garage door and air it out easily, and because you do NOT want that super fine dust getting into your house. I see a DC in one corner, don't bother, put in a cyclone, trust me on this one :D

Cheers!

[John Miliunas]

Chris, first of all, a BIG welcome to the Creek! Glad you decided to "sign up"! :D

I'm thinking you're truly on the right track there. I will whole-heartedly agree with Stu on seriously considering a cyclone rather than a regular DC, especially in a shop located within the confines of your house! I don't know what your ceiling height is but, JDS now has two cyclones which, comfortably fit under an 8' ceiling height! Secondly, and I wish this to NOT sound like an advertisement but, instead of the ply on top of horses work area, I'd seriously consider the EZ Smart table on folding legs. With it and some CSGS, you could knock down large sheet goods, easily get a straight line on boards in the rough and have a very convenient area for assembly, staining, etc... Also, and this is just my own opinion, unless you go in for the real high-end hooks for the pegboards, I find the typical hooks to be a royal PITA! I have some pegboards in my shop, which were already installed when we moved in. For the most part, I found myself driving wood screws into the stud areas on it to effectively hold tools, without having to pick up the peg hooks every time I removed a tool! :mad:

Keep us posted on progress! A "shop birth" is always exciting stuff! :) :cool:

[tod evans]

chris, i understand the pics better now:o

first thing i notice is that under the stairs is a good place for your compressor and maybe the d/c? next the lathe not needing in-n-out clearence can move to the short wall where the bandsaw sits now and pull both the bandsaw and drill press to the long wall. you`ll likely find yourself needing 8` in-n-out of both machines. for quick and functional wall hanging use slatwall it comes in a variety of finishes even with reinforced slats that`ll hold a supprising amount of weight. hooks/bins/bars ect. are all off the shelf accessories that hook or unhook in seconds.....02 tod

[Dennis Peacock]

Welcome to SMC Chris!!!! Next time, don't lurk around so long, just sign up and make it the only one to visit for your WW'ing needs and you won't have to worry much about visiting around. :rolleyes: :p
Congrats on the new house construction. It's both exciting times and can stress ones marriage to new limits. DAMHIKT!!!!!! :eek: :D

[Mark Singer]

Welcome to the Creek!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Welcome to the Creek Chris! Neat place to exchange information!

[Bart Leetch]

Sorry I always have a hard time understanding putting in walls when walls really aren't needed.

Living with walls that are needed & causing a shop to be small is a fact I live with every day.

Also what is the little alcove with what looks like a door in it?

I plan on a bigger shop some day. I maybe will separate out a room to finish in but may only make swing out panels with a top & exhaust fan in the exterior wall. I don't want any walls or doors that are not needed to have to move projects through. I plan on 2 3' swinging doors in a double door opening & 1 single walk through door.

Sorry I don't like taking a bigger open space & dividing it up. I learned this from my Dad who was a builder when he took me into my Uncles house & what would have been a perfectly wonderful basement accept every way you turned you ran into a wall. It was all chopped up into small rooms each one of the crowded & hard to move through. Dad took a piece of paper & pencil & showed me what happens when he removed a few walls & gave each thing like the laundry & other rooms that really didn't need to be divided their own space with out walls. The laundry actually went into a closet with by-fold doors instead of a separate room. The library which had been a separate room went in book cases along a wide hall way that went to the garage. The pantry & mud room with deep sink became one room eliminating more walls. The small wood shop became a bit bigger & still a separate room. They still had a kind of living room but it was bigger a bedroom & a bath room. Everything flowed better & was much more pleasant to be in.

So in a woodshop I would leave out as many walls as possible.

[Chris Ploog]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try moving the machines around as suggested and see how I like that. I can say my reasoning about the lathe is I don't have a big lathe right now, only a little mini and I figured it takes little space so I threw it in that little pocket by the "furnace room" for now.

The BS is on a mobile base so I planned on pulling it out when needed, though I am concerned about tucking the DP in a corner, but see it done all the time. Though that doesn't mean it will fit my application.

Stu- currently I have a JET 2 hp DC, but I have the funds saved away for the clearvue. I plan to upgrade to this once my shop floor seems to be stable (thus left inlet or right) as it is very important I keep my dust in the basement as much as possible and not all over the house. Hence the "furnace rm." I sealed this off in the last shop and it proved very well along with good DC and proper clean up I was happy with dust in my house. In fact the way I have the machines I should be able to run a nice 6" duct against the floor behind the machines down the main wall and then add a flex line on for the surface planer when in use. I worry not about the hand tool room at this time.

Someone mentioned my compressor? I plan on putting it in the garage if all works out well and then just running the line downstairs. But if I don't have space in the garage I will put it in a "sound proofing box" under the stairs.

Dan, I do have two windows in the basement. Both on the "furnace rm" wall, though I am not sure they sizes and placement at this time. I do know one is at the lathe end and one at the spray booth end. I plan on putting in an exhaust fan in the window with the spray booth. Maybe just a general box for the lathe, though I don't want to block the limited natural light coming in as it is minimal.

As for lights. I bought the 8' cold start high output lights for the last shop and painted everything semi gloss ultra white. Let me tell you plenty bright! I plan on putting in a few more, as this shop is bigger. I have them spaced 5' apart and am looking to make sure shadows are limited over machinery. I think my new layout will call for 8 in the main shop and then a few more in the hand tool area. I also have some small 4' ballasts with natural light flourcent tubes that will be in the spray booth.

Those concerned about peg board. I bought the dual rod heavy duty uints for hanging clamps and have NOT popped out on me! Though I had a few other small pieces of peg where I did not have these and I was always looking on the ground for the hook when I dropped it. I do like the suggestion about the slot wall. I saw lee valley now has a router bit to do that and am interested in trying that out.

As for my ceiling and noise I was planning to eventually fill the rafters with 3.5" thick insulation (paperless backing) and then I saw a tip in a magazine where a guy nailed little cleats in between the rafters and rested drywall on top of them. This way you could still take out the drywall real easy if you need access to pipes or what not. If I do this I believe I will be forced to buy the new clearvue cyclone as this will fit under an 8' ceiling. I am pretty sure the floor to ceiling height was almost an exact 8' and I thought the original clearvue cyclone was over 8'.

Thanks for all the sugguestions again. Hoping to be on the forums more as right now I am living without an internet connection readily available.

[Rob Russell]

Chris,

As someone who's lived in a basement shop for a couple of decades, I'd leave it as open as possible.

You can still do a power side vs. hand tool side, but losing the walls will make it a lot easier to deal with long lumber when you're trying to joint and rip 10-12' stock for a "upgrade the trim in the house" project or anything else that requires long stock.

Just my .02.

rob

[Roger Bell]

I also favor the notion of placing as many major machines along the "long" wall so that they can handle longer boards. Perhaps there is a way to get your planer over there as well.....or, at minimum, perhaps you could wheel it over there when needed. Your main DC run could also be along that wall with lots'o'drops. A cyclone is a must, I also think, in a basement environment.

I have a "divided" shop as well. And I deviate from the consensus that it is "better" to have a large open space. I have had various permutations of layouts in my history of five shops. A clean, dust free room for finishing (as well as other for other things) is simply a must, IMO. No dust collection system made is going to give you a reasonably dust free environment that is good enough for finishing, given that some machines just aren't that amenable to dust collection. Having had a divided shop for four years now....there is no way I would ever go back to a single large room. While maximizing floor space is nice, more wall space is also nice....another benefit of having more walls.

I have a large pegboard in each room, just like you are planning. I use higher end hooks and have never, ever had a problem. Do plan on duplicating some more frequently used hand tools (screwdrivers, tapes, hammers, rulers, pliers, squares, awls, drills/bits etc.) in EACH room. You dont want to have to hike between rooms perpetually......and you will unless you duplicate.