Pay Back Time!

[Mark Singer]

Well over the last couple of weeks I have Posted Tutorial Threads on 4 different joints...
1. Mitered Dovetails
2. Wedged Flush Mortise and tenon
3. Through Tenon with removable wedge or pin (Arts and Crafts)
4. Half lap dovetail

It would be nice to see your joints:rolleyes: Yeah try some practice joints and post them...with pics! And if they are not great....that is ok! That is where you are starting and you will surprise yourself in a short time with progress.... After going to the gym for several years one of the trainers,Russ came up to me and said, "Mark, Your looking great ....your weight is down and you are really fit" and I said "I got a long way to go to look like you"....Russ said "Don't compare yourself to me....compare yourself to you"....that makes a lot of sense! Whatever level of woodworking you are at, practice and applying good technique will show rapid improvement.....hand sawing and use of all hand tools...machine tools...like the bandsaw will improve....measuring, marking and fitting joints will really improve...so start! Show us some joints...
Like taking piano lessons...you go home and practice and then you show your improvement at the next lesson...
Then we can move on...Butterfly lock joint, Rule joint, spline joints..splayed chair mortise and tenons...tongue and rabbit...and more

What would be really nice is to see these joints in actual furniture tha people are making....joinery is the hallmark of fine furniture making and the pointers and little tricks in the tutorials will help and you will improve quickly....Joints Please!:rolleyes:

[Roy Wall]

I think I've got some DT pics from that cherry side table.....I'll look them up!

[Nick Clayton]

Mark,

I enjoy reading your tutorials on hand cutting joints. In fact you've inspired me to take a hand cut dovetail course in September! Now head over to the neander forum and help me pick a saw;)

[Zahid Naqvi]

I've got some time off coming up and I plan to put to test item #2 on your list.

[Don Baer]

Mark,
I'm going to start a computer desk for LOML in a few weeks (as soons as I can get the temp shop up and running) and will be glad so show some of the joiner I will be using. It will be a good chance for me to have my work critiqued so I can continue to learn and grow my skills.

[Jim Becker]

'Good thing Bob Marley isn't a member of SMC... :D :D :D
----

Seriously, if I get to do some of the anticipated projects I have on my list, I'll try to take care to post interesting joinery, especially if it's something new for me.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Double haunched tenons...

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/double_haunched.jpg

Drawer dovetails...

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/drawers.jpg

Take care, Mike

[Mark Singer]

Mike , nice work! Hand , machine or both?

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Mark, Thank you.

Most things I do I use both. I typically saw tenons and punch in mortises. Personal work I most often hand do everything but veneers.

The DTs were done via a WoodRat. Nealry all my commissions are done that way. Still have to glue up the doors for this credenza and saw the veneers for the drawer fronts.

The whole thing needs glued up, finish [a yucky, heavy near-black red] and then my last large commission is finished. Phew. Hard to balance time.

I also took some pictures of a Peruvian Walnut cabinet I am building my wife. It shows carcass DTs and the web frames are half-laped Lyptus. And just to prove how inconsistent I am--It's done via power mainly <g>.

Take care, Mike

[Jeff Horton]

OK you said good or bad. These are in between the two. (at least I think so). And of course I showed the best looking ones.

44434

These are my ... well about my 6th set of dovetails. Not where I want them to be but I am improving and having fun making them! Just need more practice with the saw.

The tool tray is for my Inspection tools. It didn't turn out very well but it will work. Once it is finished it will get banged up so it's OK. It's different and always looking for something that makes me stand out to the clients.


44433

Wanted to try my hand at box making and decided to try a saddle joint as we talked about in another thread. Learning experience here but not to shabby. Still some gaps, goes back to learning to cut to the line with the saw! Still working on this one. Turned out a bit better than I expected for a first try.

And you can be honest. ;)

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,
Those are good! And you have not cut many...so you will continue to improve....Advice don't "split" the line...stay on the waste side and things will tighten up then pare or rasp to fit...follow my threads ...that is excellent so far!

[Ben Grunow]

Hey Jim- you must be referring to the (regularly mentioned on SMC) "weed pots".

Where does that name come from anyway?

[Guy Germaine]

Y'all have seen these before, but I'll post them again, just in case. The first pic is a Box Joint from a table saw jig I made.
http://www.fototime.com/8595018F6BA3AF5/standard.jpg

This is a double dovetail I did on my new Incra Pro II fence:
http://www.fototime.com/3DE0FCD0CC64775/standard.jpg

[Voytek Jarnot]

Here's the joinery on my first real project, and a pic of the whole bench.

[Jim Becker]

Voytek, I really like that bench. Outstanding in it's joinery and simplicity. It looks great where it's located, too. Nice!

[Mark Singer]

Voytek,
Fine joinery! I like the varied spacing...I have a similar bench in teak with mitered dovetails. The design is really great on your bench!

[Voytek Jarnot]

Thanks guys, sawing the tails in the 1.75" boards was a bit more challenging than I had hoped for, but it turned out ok - as the wife says, only I can see that it's full of small errors and imperfections.

[tod evans]

voytek, nice work!

[Mack Cameron]

Hi Mark; I'm looking for the tutorials, but can't for the life of me, find them. HELP!!

[Al Willits]

I'd love to post some of the projects I've done after reading your posts Mark......but there ain't none yet...:)

Do appreciate the posts and maybe when I get done trying to make my garage into a wood shop, I'll be able to actually use all that info...thanks.

Al who thinks being a newbie sucks at times....lots of times...:D

[Don Baer]

Mack,
I think this is the complete list.

Mitered Dovetails

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40348

Wedged Loose Tenion

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40598

Joint Design and Wood Movement

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40464

Exposed wedge thru tenion

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40703

Half Lap Dovetail

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40888

I think that all of em.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Voytek--well done! Love the table,

Don, thanks for the list. Almost could be a sticky...

Take care, Mike

[Dave Shively]

Mike and & Guy,

Very nice tight fitting joints there.

Dave

[Kirk Poore]

Mark:

Although I haven't been using the exact M&T types in your tutorial, I've been using wedged mortise & tenon joints to make medieval benches. The benches are made of 3/4" red oak, and the tenons are 1-1/2" wide. I'm wondering about durability. How much should I flare the mortises to ensure the joint doesn't loosen over time? I've only been flaring them about 1/32" or even less. The legs each have a splay of about 8 deg from vertical (each), and are pinned through rails, so they can't rack much on their own.
http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=44563&stc=1&d=1155319643

I've only been wedging these for 2-3 years, and they seem to be holding up so far, but I'm wondering about long-term fiber compression on the tenons and whether I need to have a wider mortise, thus letting the tenon flare more when it gets wedged.

Thanks...

Kirk Poore

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Kirk,

With Oak, you can probably taper the holes quite a bit before a split runs down.

I usually go for a couple degrees, maybe 2-3 degrees. Less the bigger the tenon. I would think yours will hold up fine. If I were making them from scratch and didn't see your nice benches, I would have probably done a taper of about 1/8"--1/16" to either side of center.

Take care, Mike

[Mark Hulette]

Hey Moderators...

How about putting Mr. Singer's tutorials in as a sticky for future reference or as an article?

Thanks for the inspiration and the "push", Mark!

[Frank Howell]

Here's some of mine.

My first wedged tennon, yeah, I know, the wedge should be going the other way. DOUGHT!:eek:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h187/Ice-Pirate/Woodworking/Bookstand/Finished/IMG_2946.jpg

From the same project, rounded through DT, on a 24" Liegh, and half blind DT on my Rockler jig.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h187/Ice-Pirate/Woodworking/Bookstand/Finished/IMG_2996.jpg

Rabbet joint, the fiddle boards on the leaf edge.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h187/Ice-Pirate/Woodworking/Saloon%20Table/OntheBoat05.jpg

Half lap, (I think), for the cutting grid.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h187/Ice-Pirate/Woodworking/Shop%20pics/CuttingGrid.jpg

I'm sure there's more but thats it for now.

[Kirk Poore]

Hi Kirk,

With Oak, you can probably taper the holes quite a bit before a split runs down.

I usually go for a couple degrees, maybe 2-3 degrees. Less the bigger the tenon. I would think yours will hold up fine. If I were making them from scratch and didn't see your nice benches, I would have probably done a taper of about 1/8"--1/16" to either side of center.

Take care, Mike

Thanks, Mike. I've contemplated cutting two slots in each tenon and wedging them on each edge, but so far I haven't really seen the need for that. The tenon is too thick for a center wedge to work, so I've been wedging toward one edge or the other, depending on how the leg slant need to be adjusted to make the correct angle.

Kirk

[Gene DiNardo]

Here's a couple of cobbled up half laps and my dovetail kit.

[Mark Singer]

Gene,
Beautiful 1/2 blind dovetails....nice tools as well

[Mark Singer]

I appreciate all the pics that are being post showing joinery... Lets just reflect on the point of the tutorials for a moment....it was to learn hand tool and machine tool techniques to design and execute joinery that will enhance both structurally and esthetically hand made furiniture....starting with basic one of a kind operations.... I am not trying to show how to use a dovetail jig, Incra jig or other device that makes joinery if you follow the directions ....to me this is "processing " wood. Wood goes in ....joinery comes out! I can't teach much about that....I don't know how to use these type of jigs and it is not the point of discussion. If thats the way you want to make joinery now and in the future, then it belongs in a different thread. It does not require the same thought and preperation and the results are predicatble and do not feel like handmade joinery to woodworkers and often to people that just like handcrafted furniture....somehow they can tell the difference. To submit these types of techniques is like bringing a TV dinner to a cooking class....its easier...its predicatable...its food...it tastes like a TV dinner. It is not real cooking....
My efforts in these tutorials is to make more people comfortable in using the right joinery to feel comfortable using it in furniture...I did use some power tools and hand tools....which is consistent with books that teach Joinery like Tage Frid's "Woodworking"....I started with the very difficult mitered dovetails, all cut by hand (if you wanted to use a bandsaw for some of the cuts, like David Charlesworth and David Marks demonstrate, thats fine)...for last joint, the "half lap dovetail" I used a router, a bandsaw, a chisel and a simple jig that I made...
I tried to make it easy and straight forward to encourage many to try....so please show us joinery that requires a process of using individual tools to make "one of a kind" joints ....because that is what we are discussing:rolleyes:

[Chris Mann]

here are handcut dovetails and a handcut wedged mortise/tenon
http://manndesigns.com/pics/DSCF0006.JPG

and here's a half lap dovetail and a loose right angle tenon to strengthen the miter
http://manndesigns.com/pics/DSCF0013.JPG

and a detail of the right angle tenon (with handcut dovetails)
http://manndesigns.com/pics/DSCF0015.JPG

-chris

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
That is beautiful work! Execution and design is terrific! The care , thought and crafstmanship are truly conveyed through the piece....!