Got a question about Collars-----?????????

[Gary Max]

I know that turning is personal and we all like different things. This does not make one person wrong or another right----my little thought.
My question-----------Why do turners put collars on HF's.
I do not like them------ when I turn a HF I keep the hole as small as possible and let the customer figure out how in the heck I made the piece.
To me the collar is a dead give away----almost a way to fill a hole in.
I am not wanting to start a war -- I just want to understand the reason for making the collar.

[Chris Barton]

Hi Gary,

I think you'er right about the collar being a "cover up" so to speak. I have done them both ways. I have to admit though that most folks seem drawn to the pieces with a contrasting collar.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hi Gary,

I think you're right about the collar being a "cover up" so to speak. I have done them both ways. I have to admit though that most folks seem drawn to the pieces with a contrasting collar.
Do you think that is because they do not know how the HF is actually formed?

I have not even tried to turn a HF, so take what I have to say with a large grain of salt, but are not the collars like the guys who build little ships and then cut the bottle to put it inside, glue it up and then put a ribbon or something over the cut?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but isn't that the purpose of the collar............?

(flame suit on)

[Travis Stinson]

For a finishing touch. But, if only done with that purpose in mind. If the effort is not put into making the collar fit the piece, it will look like a cover up. Compare it to the difference in look between a t-shirt and a dress shirt.There's not much appeal to me in a plain hole, no matter how small it might be.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Just a beginners thought, but do you suppose it might have something to do with some folks not having the special hollowing tools and therefore the hole had to be a bit bigger? I'm talking about when the process first got started. At least that is my situation. But then again, I probably wouldn't be trying an HF if it wasn't for you guys showing that beautiful work all the time.:eek:

[Mark Cothren]

Good question for discussion Gary!!! I'm trying to learn about this collar technique...

I like collars. I've done a few pieces w/o them and unless I do something special with the rim treatment I think the piece doesn't look as good. But that's my stuff and my opinion. I like the contrasting colors and think they bring out the color of the HF if appropriate.

I own a few HFs w/ collars that the collar is relatively small, and the opening is large enough you can both see and feel inside. They aren't "cover ups".

Now I've turned a few HFs that were so rough inside that the collar should have been solid w/o an opening at all.....:D

All that being said, probably my favorite collars I've seen are "natural" collars. That is, they are turned on the piece rather than being a separate piece. Others have probably done them too, but I know Jim and Travis have done them that way and posted on here.

[Chris Barton]

Do you think that is because they do not know how the HF is actually formed?

Sadly, my experience is that most people don't even know that wood grows on trees. I see what my neighbors call fine furniture (MDF covered in 1/94" thick veneer and a slick finish) and realize most are clueless.


I have not even tried to turn a HF, so take what I have to say with a large grain of salt, but are not the collars like the guys who build little ships and then cut the bottle to put it inside, glue it up and then put a ribbon or something over the cut?

I think that collars can be a very artistic method to use on a piece. Kind of like captive rings and segmented turnings. Collars can actually make a piece more difficult rather than less. Almost every HF I have made with a collar has had the same effect on people, "how do you take the top off?" I am considering just going to a finial lid of sorts.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but isn't that the purpose of the collar............?

(flame suit on)

Can be. How are the eyes? I had LASIK done 2 years ago, best money I ever spent.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

My eyes are fine Chris, thanks for asking, in fact, I've ended up with 20/10 vision in both, I can see stuff way, way, way over there now :D

OK, now I'm getting more of an idea on the collar thing, thanks for the info, thanks to Travis too!

I just had a thought pop into my head, a really neat special piece of wood can be used to make the collar, right?

In fact, the collar is a turning unto it self, or is it glued in place?　(told you I did not know jack about this stuff).

Cheers!

[Andy Hoyt]

Why do you wear a hat?

Which one do you wear?

Why?

Do you look better with it on than you do with it off?

[Keith Burns]

There ya go,

Sometimes I feel like a nut
Sometimes I don't....................

[Reed Gray]

I have done a few collars of contrasting woods, and they were all done to cover up: a catch and a tearup of the opening. They look nice, but don't seem to sell any better than the ones that have a designed collar. I don't do a lot of hollow forms, but some look very nice with a contrasting color.
robo hippy

[Gary Max]

Andy----I am talking about selling a product not going to town.
Oh ---No I aint Bald, so I ain't worried about getting a sun burn even though I always where a hat outside.

[Andy Hoyt]

So was I Gary; but in a metaphorical way.

Don your finest chapeaux and check yourself in the mirror. Do you now have the proper look to pass yourself off as beautiful; as elegant; or as properly coordinated with the rest of your attire?

The hat on your head and the collar on your hollow form serve many similar functions and goals. And sometime that goal is best achieved by displaying the bald spot, or that opening - and sometimes not.

It's a matter of personal perspective and knowing the market; and then modifying it to suit the particular demands of what needs to be sold.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for asking the question Gary. I have often wondered why the collars other than kinda like a decoration. I do like the contrasting colors of the different woods. I think the collars sets off a HF.

[Mike Vickery]

I think collars and no collar can both look well if the piece is well executed.
I heard one turner once say that he made collars so people could not fit their fingers in the hole to see how smooth the inside is. It kind of sounds bad but very practical.

[Gary Max]

This is why I started this thread-----there is no right answer.
The only difference I know is that without a collar they can't figure out how it is made---with a collar they don't even ask and as was pointed out--- some folks don't even know where wood comes from.
Not that one is better or even worth more. Personally I perfere without---heck if it's done right the hole is still small.

[Lee DeRaud]

All that being said, probably my favorite collars I've seen are "natural" collars. That is, they are turned on the piece rather than being a separate piece.Agreed. The ones that are turned separately and glued on afterward tend to look like "lids" rather than part of the piece, IMHO.

And at that point you start to wonder what the hole in the collar is for. I suppose people put dried flowers or whatever through the hole when displaying these things, but for some of them the shape is all wrong for that...might as well be a solid plug.

[Mike Ramsey]

I hated collars previously, couldn't stand them! But a few here have
changed my mind recently with their beautiful work, I guess it's in the
eye of the beholder. At first i thought it was a way to hide a rough
finished work but now I don't think that at all. A couple of pieces have
collars with finials & I think the finial work is fantastic. I saved a few
pics of previous turnings and I go back and look at them for inspiration
often....(I've got one drying from the alchy bath). Take a look at these
pieces & they are in my mind a piece of ART & not something to put
dried flowers in..."ART" meaning to be displayed & enjoyed like eye candy
should. I don't remember who turned these pieces........
44343

44344

44345

[Gary Max]

Mike let me talk about the pics you just posted----the first the collar flows with the body---that works for me. The next two----now that's a different thing all together. You attention to detail makes the top a work of art on it's own which adds to the base.
Just my little thoughts again

[Keith Burns]

Mike, it's a Stinson, Ketron, Stinson:)

[Mike Ramsey]

I was wondering when someone would tell me who turned those....:rolleyes:

[Gary Max]

Here are a couple of pics of the only HF that I have left. We just came back from a big show and sales where good.

[Ernie Nyvall]

Sometimes I feel like a nut
Sometimes I don't....................

So uhhhh.... when is it you don't.:p

Gary, I like the collars partly for the trim work... sorta like baseboards, shoe molding, crown molding, and door and window trim. You don't have to use the trim, but for me it looks kind of naked (I hope I can say that word [I'm kidding) without it. Too, a wood like walnut can have several colors in it. A certain collar would bring out the color that may go unnoticed otherwise. Now, the piece you just posted on this thread (and I am not saying it looks bad the way it is), I think would look nice with a collar turned in the piece... not using a separate piece of wood, but decorating the hole with a groove or a raised area a 1/2" to 3/4" around the hole.

At first I worried about the hole size, but now I try to fit the hole to the form and look I want. Not that I have it right, but that is what I TRY.:D

[Gary Max]

Ernie if you add anything to the top of the HF that I posted----------people will say---Oh that's how you done it-----it will always look like a seam.
My logic is -----if they can't figure out how you made it-----that's a good thing.

[Mark Cothren]

Ernie if you add anything to the top of the HF that I posted----------people will say---Oh that's how you done it-----it will always look like a seam.
My logic is -----if they can't figure out how you made it-----that's a good thing.

I'm not arguing, but I don't follow. If you put a huge collar on it, then I might could see that happening ("oh, that's how you do it"). But if the collar is only slightly larger (wider) than the hole, I don't see how that would look like a "seam".

With what little experience I've had with showing HFs folks still seem puzzled about how the inside is hollowed out. I think it is the majority of folks who handle them and look at them who ask the question. And the lighter the piece is, the more the "wow" factor to them.

Regardless of that, it's like you said - it's all about what you like. If you don't like collars, don't do 'em. If you do, then belly up to the trough...:D

[Doug Jones]

I know that turning is personal and we all like different things. This does not make one person wrong or another right----my little thought.
My question-----------Why do turners put collars on HF's.

I believe it is as you said, "turning is personal". To me its no different than some one putting on a high gloss finish versus a natural look finish. Its all in what you want or like. The Personal Touch.

[Ernie Nyvall]

Ernie if you add anything to the top of the HF that I posted----------people will say---Oh that's how you done it-----it will always look like a seam.
My logic is -----if they can't figure out how you made it-----that's a good thing.

Gary, actually I didn't mean that something should be added to the top of the form you posted. I've seen some forms where the holes were just trimmed with texturing, and others where a collar was cut into the wood of the HF... nothing glued on, and I liked the pieces. Mainly though, I was responding to your first post of this thread ... your last sentence "I just want to understand the reason for making a collar." What I wrote was my reason, and to let you know that a collar isn't necessarily something for covering up or making a hole smaller. I certainly didn't mean to give you the idea that I think you should change your HF here to suit my taste... I was just using your HF as an example to hopefully bring my reasoning home. Hope this clears it up, but if not, it's sort like what Keith wrote except for me it's:
Sometimes I feel like a nut,
Sometimes I feel even nuttier :D

[Dennis Peacock]

coll-er what you want, but I bet she won't like it if you're being mean. :p

I like collars, but there are pieces that look great without them. It's all a personal taste / decision made by the arteeesssstttt that hanging on the end of the tool handle at that time. :D

[Chip Sutherland]

I like collars for the most part as long as the woods are complimentary and contrasting. Purpleheart and black walnut don't look good together unless there is some contrasting lighter wood/veneers. I have not actually done a collar primarily because I forget to do it. Plan you game and play your plan....isn't how my lathe sessions develop. I change design with just about ever catch!!!

Ship in a Bottle comment......I've only built one ship in a bottle and it didn't involve cutting the bottle. In my case, the ship is built completely outside of the bottle and with the masts completely strung with sails and sheets/lines.....but leaving one central line/string tied to the foremost mast. Then I carefully slipped the boat through the mouth of the bottle. The masts were unseated and laying flat on the hull with sails/sheets folded neatly. The hull was glued. Once dried, you pull the central string that sticking out the mouth of the bottle. This lifts the masts, sails and sheets. The masts slip into the mast holes where fresh glue was added. I needed some hemostats to settle the masts perpendicular. Then I fluffed the sails and neatened everything up. Bigger models follow a similar concept but the sails, sheets, block/tackles are loosely tied. When raised, the sheets are are finish tied....using longer hemostats, I guess.

Once was enough for me....then I found girls.....then I found wood.....then I found the lathe.