New Garage/Workshop (Long)

[Frank Snyder]

Well, I'm one month into this new garage project and I'm just about ready to begin framing. I've been meaning to post something earlier, but I've not had a whole lot of free time on my hands.

The initial process actually began back in May when my wife and I had to submit a variance application to the city for their approval. One month later, we were granted the variance and a building permit to begin construction. We began construction, or rather, deconstruction on July 5th. I will be doing most of the work myself, with the exception of the concrete slab, water line and gas meter relocations.

We also moved our existing driveway from one side of the house to the other to gain an additional 4 feet of breathing space. We're on a undersized 50x100 city lot and the side on which the old driveway existed was only 12 feet wide, whereas the new side has 16 feet. Getting in and out of our car without hitting the house or our neighbors fence was always a problem before, as was snow removal.
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The garage will be 588 square feet with nine foot ceilings and an accessible attic for lumber storage (pull-down stairs). This was the largest footprint I could muster on our postage-stamp sized lot (30% of my back yard). For the cold Chicago winters, I bit the bullet and went with an in-slab radiant heat system and a tankless boiler. I'm sure I will appreciate it more once Winter arrives. I also had the concrete slab finished to a SS/SF surface, just like the borg stores have. I figured this was the ideal surface for rolling a 800 lbs. planer around.
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[Ben Grunow]

Very nice project! Congratulations. I built my own shop last summer (and it still does not have siding or heat) and it was very rewarding. Good luck and enjoy the process.

[Frank Snyder]

The caveats involved with relocating our driveway meant relocating underground utilities. The city insisted that we relocate the gas meter and our water line since they do not want gas meters alongside driveways and they won't allow b-boxes in driveways. The new 1" copper water line was an upgrade from our existing 5/8" lead line, and we immediately noticed an improvement in water volume. Not bad for $4K. Fortunately, electric, phone and cableTV are all overhead, so those weren't an issue. I'm also upgrading our 100 amp service to 200 amps and running a 100amp subpanel out to the new garage.
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[Frank Snyder]

The demolition process was theraputic. I've been doing most of my woodworking projects out on our back patio under a 10x10 tent. The old garage had no power and was structurally unstable. I was glad to see this sorry excuse for a garage finally brought down.
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[Frank Snyder]

Excavation began the following weekend and my friend and I pulled out our 80 foot concrete driveway and garage slab in about 2 hours using a 800-series Bobcat. The next day, we excavated for the new garage slab and driveway, using the dirt from the excavation to fill in the void left from the old driveway. Unfortunately, the Bobcat snagged my gas line (it hadn't been relocated yet) just 10 inches below grade. Code here is just 18" deep for a gas line, and we didn't expect to see it that shallow. Fortunately, the gas company made good time on a Sunday and had things under control within a half-hour.
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[Frank Snyder]

For gravel, I went with a local concrete recycling facility that sells CA-6 crushed concrete and they also hauled away our old concrete driveway for free. I used the gravel for the new driveway base and slab.

I hired a concrete conctractor to form, pour and finish the slab. I had originally planned on doing this myself, but I received a quote that was less than it would cost me to buy the materials and rent the finishing tools. This seemed like an easy decision to make, especially since I've never poured or finished concrete before.

The pour went well with the exception that it was 90 degrees that day which made the finishing process a real challange for the concrete guy. They used zip strips for the expansion joints so that heavy equipment doesn't get hung up in the joints when they are rolled around. He came back the following week and applied a sealer to the slab. It looks just like a borg store floor now.

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[Jim Becker]

Very nice project! 'Looking forward to the continuing saga... :)

[Frank Snyder]

Since the slab was finished, I've been relocating water and gas lines inside my house to tie into their new source locations. Now that the gas meter has been moved, I trenched a 80 foot x 18 inch deep path from the meter to my garage and ran a 1" plastic gas line using Normac risers to convert black pipe to plastic and back again. I also attached a 12 gauge wire so that the gas company can locate the line in the future.
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The lumber should arrive here by Wednesday and I will begin framing out walls as fast as I can. I will make sure I update this thread with progress reports and pictures.

Let's hope I can wrap this project up before Winter arrives. Stay tuned...

[Roy Wall]

Frank -

Welcome to Sawmill Creek! You've got a GREAT shop project going there. Thanks for the pics - keep em coming......... and good luck in the new space.

It looks fantastic......and you'll love that heat!

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the encouraging words. I had my gas line inspection this morning and all went well. My lumber delivery got pushed back to Thursday, so it looks like I won't be framing until then.

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Congrats on the new shop! Looks like you have it well under way. Looking at your pictures, I can't imagine doing the work with neighbors so close. I know I'm making A LOT of noise building my shop.

Please keep posting progress shots. It'll be nice for me to be able to sit back and watch someone else do the work...for a change... :rolleyes:

- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks, Marty. I'm still amazed that my neighbors haven't complained about the noise I make, especially considering I did all of my woodworking outside on my back patio last year and my 13" lunchbox planer screams like a jet engine. They're either extremely tolerant or hard of hearing ;).

[Lincoln Myers]

Nice progress. Looking forward to seeing the rest.

-Linc

[Frank Snyder]

Well, I managed to get a few walls up over the weekend. It ended up raining here for most of Thursday when the lumber arrived, so I didn't start cutting up 2x4's until Friday. My plan was to get three adjacent walls built all at once on the ground, with the longest of the three wall being built last on top of the two flanking walls so that it would be the first wall raised. Then, while one or two helpers hold that wall, we raise the flanking walls and attach them so they support each other. I'm building walls on a slab on-grade, so I really didn't want to anchor braces to the concrete if I could avoid it.

The other challenge with this build is the anchor bolts which extend about 3-1/2" above the concrete surface, so the wall has to be literally lifted and placed onto the bolts so that they fit into their pre-drilled holes. I used 4x4 blocks under the bottom plate to support the wall once it was raised, then we could shift the wall so that the bolts lined up with their holes. Then I would use a large crowbar to off-load the weight of the wall while I kicked the blocks out from beneath.

It took me most of Friday to get all of the plates laid out, drilled for the anchors and marked out for the studs. On Saturday, my wife and I built 2 walls, sheathed them and attached the Tyvek. I ran the sheathing short on the outside corners so I could cut them flush once they're plumbed, and I ran the Tyvek long so I could finish wrapping the corner once the outside corners had been sheathed.

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[Frank Snyder]

On Sunday, I began building the longest of the three walls (28 feet) and I had some friends who were going to help me lift the walls cancel on me at the last minute. Without the additional muscle, my wife and I wouldn't be able to raise the 28 foot long wall by ourselves. So, I decided to build the longest wall in two 14 foot sections so that it would be easier to raise. I installed 2 sheets of sheathing on each section to help prevent the wall from racking (I'm using 4x9 1/2" OSB vertically) and attached Tyvek to each section. We were able to raise one section and I ran a temporary brace from the top plate to the outside edge of the slab while my wife supported the wall. Fortunately, at this point, my wonderful neighbors saw the action and decided to lend a hand. With the additional muscle, we were able to get the next section and the two flanking walls raised and supported. I will be making a beer delivery soon to show our gratitude.

Once the three walls were raised, I finished filling in the middle section of the longest wall and sheathing the outside corners. Even though the 28 foot long wall was built in two sections, the wall and outside corners came out perfectly plumb, much to my surprise. This is the first structure I've ever built, so I was expecting much worse.

I also used my router with a 1/2" flush-cut bit to do the window cut-outs and to clean up the outside corners of the wall sheathing. This worked like a charm.

It's supposed to rain tomorrow morning, but once it clears up, I'll get the last three walls built on the ground and maybe my wife will help me raise them when she gets home from work.
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More pics to come.

[Don Baer]

Looking good Frank.

[Roy Wall]

Terrific Frank..............good stuff!

Just think, you'll be able to mow the yard in 9 minutes:D :) .......

[Frank Snyder]

What yard? ;)

[Jerry Olexa]

You are moving right along...Looking good. Enviously, JO

[Frank Snyder]

Howdy yall! Well...it's been a fairly productive week. I was able to finish framing the last three walls on Monday and I raised them on Tuesday with some help from my neighbor. I sent him home with a six-pack of Sam Adams. I decided to leave the header out of the garage door wall until after it was raised. I figured the 200 lbs. LSL would make the wall too top heavy for us to lift. I ended up lifting the header over my head and setting it into place by myself once the wall was in place. No easy feat for a skinny guy like me.

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[Frank Snyder]

On Wednesday, I started installing the CJ's and finished them up on Thursday. I began installing the cross-bridging until I was about half-way through when I noticed my joists were beginning to take on a very pronounced curvature. It appeared that my store bought cross-bridging was undercut just enough to alter the space between the joists from 14-1/2" to 14". So, I had to knock out all of the cross-bridging I had installed, and reinstall it using a spacer block and some Jorgie's. While time consuming, this method produced much better results.

Tomorrow I will tack some 3/4" subflooring on top of my CJ's and begin framing out the gable walls. If all goes well, I should be ready to begin work on the roof by Sunday. The scuttle hole is for the pull-down attic stairs.

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[Bob Marino]

Frank,

Great job, I am amazed at your progress - it took me longer to paint my shop than you to build yours. Keep the pics coming.

Bob

[Dan Oliphant]

I'm amazed at the speed of this project without a crew!!! Great job.

[Frank Snyder]

Lots of effort today, but not too much to show for it. My wife and I moved all of the 3/4" subflooring on top of the ceiling joists and I screwed down a few sheets where I needed to work. I began framing out the smallest of the three gable walls, thinking I could just build it on the subflooring and raise it into place. Once built, I raised it and set it into place, but the bottom plate had somehow turned into an arch and I couldn't get it to flatten out due to the length of the studs. I really screwed that one up.

So, I had to disassemble that wall and try it again. This time, I just attached the center stud to the bottom plate, then set that into place and attached it to the top plate of the wall. I then plumbed the center stud and reattached the flanking angle top plates to the center stud. I then decided to cut two rafters and set them on top of the plates and clamp them to the gable top plates so that they straightened out. Once clamped, I remeasured for each stud, cut to length, then toenailed into place. This took a lot longer, but again, the results were on the number. I also left a slot to accept the ridge board and I notched out the rafters for the lookouts which will help support the 2x10 barge rafters.

So in actuality, I built two walls today, but I just have one to show for it.

Hopefully, tomorrow, I can get the last two gable walls put together without any hitches. I have a friend coming out tomorrow to help me get the 28 foot ridge board in place (after I get the last two gable walls done) and I hope we can make more progress than I did today.

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Dan: No crew, really. Just me, my wife, and my neighbor when we need some muscle. This is my first time framing and my only knowledge is from the Fine Homebuilding books I've read over the past few months.

Bob: Thanks, Bob. This project is really only going at the pace it is going because I'm working on it full-time. If I had to juggle this and a full-time job, I'd pay someone else to build it for me.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I am very impressed at your first attemnpt at framing. You are doing a great job, better than the framing crews around these parts! I taught myself how to build much like you did although I did take a building trades class in school once.

The shop is comin' along great. The mistakes are bound to happen...I still make 'em from time to time. Keep up the good work!

[Corey Hallagan]

Excellent Frank! Your going to have a great shop there. I am jealous!

Corey

[Rich Stevens]

Frank,

I am amazed with the attention to detail you're giving your project. Judging by the photos you've posted, its easy to see the quality of workmanship gonig into it. I would gladly pay you to come build something like this for me one day (not likely though unless you plan to live in Australia).

What's even better is that you're self-taught.

Without wanting to 'put-down' carpenters generally (as there are some good ones around), I am often disgusted by the slap-bang jobs on residential building sites. My wife and I are in the process of designing a house we want built later this year and I cringe at the thought of the level of 'workmanship' I have to accept as the norm when we contract out the work to a 'quality' builder.

Good luck with your project - and keep those photos coming.

Rich
Melb, Australia

[Kelly C. Hanna]

How right you are Rich. There are very few craftsman carpenters left in this world. I see more shabby work daily than I'd like to.

[jud dinsmore]

frank,

great work. i hope you had a chance to check out fine homebuilding's framing videos with larry haun. he is the real deal and breaks framing down so anyone could do it. i just question using 2x10 barge rafters (also called fly rafters). in our area, southeastern virginia, we typically use 2x6 fly rafters to match up with either wood or vinyl wrapped cornice. for wood cornice we use 1x8 for fascia, 3/8" plywood for soffit, 3 1/2" crown, and 1x6 freeze. the 2x6 fly allows for a 3/4" or so reveal from the bottom of the 1x8 fascia to the soffit. for vinyl we leave off the soffit and crown but the fasica and freeze are the same dimensions. our vinyl subcontractor warns against running metal (pvc coated or smooth aluminium) over 8". it tends to look wavy regardless of how careful you are during installation. you will also need to notch the ends of your ridge board to accomindate 2x6 flys. good luck and keep us posted.

jud

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks everyone for the kind and encouraging words. I really don't know what I'm doing...I'm just taking my time to figure things out as I go and learn from my mistakes.

I had a friend come out today to help me finish the gable walls and get the ridge board in place. I'm running the rafter tails longer than they will be...I thought I'd wait until all the rafters are installed, snap a line across them equidistant from the ridge then cut them to their final length. I hope to get the rest of the rafters in place tomorrow and get the valley/jack rafters cut for the intersecting roof lines. I should be ready to sheath the roof by Wednesday and hopefully begin installing shingles by the weekend.

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Rich: I don't know if my workshop is a fair comparison with present day builders...because I'm building this for myself, I take whatever time and use whatever resources I need to do this job the best way I can. It's a personal thing and a pride thing. Present day builders/contractors make their living by building things as quickly as they can. The longer they take, the less money they make, so the workmanship is often compromised. Framing gets covered with sheathing or sheetrock, so no one sees what corners they cut, and as long as they pass their inspections, it becomes acceptable practice. I'm not building this workshop to make a profit, so I can spend all sorts of time figuring things out and use time consuming building techniques.

Jud: Thanks for the video tips. I will see if my library has those. My house is of the Craftsman bungalow style, and it has 2x10 barge rafters and structural 4x4 brackets which support them. The lookouts will add additional support but will not be the main support for these 2x10 barge rafters. The eves are all open with exposed rafter tails. There's also wainscotting underneath the eves between the rafters. This isn't how they typically finish eves and soffits around here on new houses, but it is in keeping with the architectural style of my house.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Very nice job Frank. I had missed your initial posts, but it looks like you're making great progress. Something tells me you and Marty Walsh could build a small town in a few weekends if you teamed up together. ;)

- Vaughn

[Marty Walsh]

Vaughn,

I was just sitting here thinking I could sure use Franks help. He seems to keep my kind of pace...agressive...:D

Frank,

Looking REAL good! Wish I could be as far along as you are in such a short time. But then again, my shop is just a tad larger...;)

- Marty -

[Andy Hoyt]

Frank: If I read this correctly

I hope to get the rest of the rafters in place tomorrow and get the valley/jack rafters cut for the intersecting roof lines. I should be ready to sheath the roof by Wednesday and ..... It would indicate that you're doing open valleys as opposed to crickets. Much more difficult to execute regardless of experience; and results in a much more useable area underneath the roof. Outstanding!

[jud dinsmore]

nice to see you keeping the open cornice to match the house. your library will probably have those framing videos (that's where i got mine from). check out fine homebuilding #161 for more info on framing valleys. the name of the article is titled "framing a roof valley". it is a pretty tight little article on how to frame the exact type of valley you intend on framing. good luck.

jud

[Bob Marino]

As impressive as this project is, Frank's kitchen project is at least as cool. Frank, if you haven't posted the kitchen pics already, let's see em'.

Bob

[Rich Stevens]

Rich: I don't know if my workshop is a fair comparison with present day builders...because I'm building this for myself, I take whatever time and use whatever resources I need to do this job the best way I can. It's a personal thing and a pride thing. Present day builders/contractors make their living by building things as quickly as they can. The longer they take, the less money they make, so the workmanship is often compromised. Framing gets covered with sheathing or sheetrock, so no one sees what corners they cut, and as long as they pass their inspections, it becomes acceptable practice. I'm not building this workshop to make a profit, so I can spend all sorts of time figuring things out and use time consuming building techniques.


Frank - you're too humble!

Even if you say that this is a personal and pride thing, I am still very impressed how quickly you're moving along with the contruction of your garage/shop. Its movin along at a good pace...!

I will concede that it isn't a fair comparison to make between your project and the construction of a house, but I would challenge you that the are other differences in construction technique/approach which makes up the difference.

Yours is being built essentially from un-cut lengths of lumber - some as big as 10 x 2's. Here is Australia (over on the east coast) houses are built with internal timber frames and an (mostly) external skins of brick and mortar. With the timber frames, a large proportion of the components such as roof trusses are pre-fab'ed in a factory and delivered to site. In many cases also, so are the internal wall frames. Carpenters are basically assembling frames rather than building from scratch. And yes they may be fast, but they're still making big money. It is essentially a race to build as quickly and as cheaply as the regulations will allow them.

[I know this because a former neighbour of mine who started off as a framing contractor and is now into house construction told me that the best money a carpenter can make comes from house framing, not internal finish/trim work - he reckons customers somehow see the house frame as really "complex" part of the project and are resigned to paying a lot to for it. Framers know this and charge accordingly]

Another issue I have is as timber becomes more scarce, the sizes of timber being used for construction diminishes to the point where the entire roof and wall sections looks like a mass of tangled matchsticks with all the cross bracing that's required. This really sucks but I guess is reality.

I have spent the last three weekends installing glass wool insulation in the roof space above my workshop ceiling. It took the best part of 8 hours in total worming my way through the roof trusses to lay the insulation in an area of only 350 sq feet. I'll bet you won't have that problem when its time to do yours.

In the meantime, keep up the great work!

Rich

[Frank Snyder]

Sorry for the delay...I've been under the gun trying to get as much done before the thunderstorms arrive. It turned out that it took a detour around Illinois, headed north towards Michigan, then proceeded south to Indiana. Talk about luck...

I spent Monday installing the subflooring for the attic. I used 4x8 3/4" T&G plywood sheets, glued and ring-shank nailed to the joists. Having a floor up there really makes the rafter work much easier and safer than tip-toeing on the joists.

On Tuesday, I began filling in the more of the common rafters, hung a beveled header for the intersecting rooflines, installed the ridge board for the smaller roof and I spent the rest of the day trying to figure out the valley rafter cuts. Having the exposed rafter tails converge into plane takes some intensive trial and error. By the end of the day, I had a working template which I could use for the final cut.

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[Frank Snyder]

Wednesday's forecast was originally supposed to bring strong thunderstorms by noon, so I was up early trying to get as much work done before they arrived. I cut the final valley rafters to fit, and finished off all of the main roof's common rafters. All that I have left is the compound rafter cuts for the valleys. Unfortunatley, I ran out of 2x8's, so I had to go pick some more up this evening.

I should be able to crank out the remaining rafters tomorrow if the weather holds up, then sheath the roof on Friday. Our weather forecast has been a bit unpredictable as of late, so I will have to play the shingling by ear. We keep getting these severe weather warnings but nothing transpires...yet.

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Marty: Your workshop project looks fantastic. I can only dream about working in that kind of space. I need guys like Stu and his dungeon to make me feel better about my workspace. ;)

Andy: You read correctly...and I agree with you. They are HARD to implement but I need every square inch for storage so they are worth it to me.

Bob: I should probably start another thread for the kitchen project I did last year...I will work on this tonight. Thanks for the suggestion and your encouragement. (I started a new thread at http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=41764)

Rich: You have my sympathies for having to jungle-gym your way through your truss attic to insulate. I planned on just tacking R-38 insulation from the underside of the CJ's before I drywall.

I will follow up with more updates before the weekend. Thanks again for the encouragement.:)

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Kudos for the job you're doing on the roof. I don't know that I'd have the patience to deal with all the complex angles. (Probably why I designed my shop as a simple gable with a relatively low pitch. Oh wait, never mind...I went with trusses anyway! :rolleyes: )

Hope the weather holds out for you. We've been getting storms that start every day by 1-2 in the afternoon for the last week or more. I'm sure getting tired of sweeping water off the deck before I can get work.

- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Finally...the roof is all framed out. The weather really messed up this week's productivity, but it's supposed to clear up after the weekend. I just need to hang the barge rafters tomorrow, then I will begin sheathing the gables and the roof. The shingles are being delivered Monday, so hopefully, I can knock out the roofing over the course of next week.

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[Art Mulder]

Frank,

Looking real good.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you are working at this full time. Are you on an extended vacation, or is woodworking (going to be) your career?

Also, I see from the plans that you have allowance for the car in there. Is that just for rare occaisions, or will it be in there all the time? That makes for an awkward shop.

Are you going to insulate the ceiling, or put the insulation up under the roof?


Great job on the roof, by the way. That'll give you a lot of attic space.

best,
...art

[Andy Hoyt]

Nice job on the valleys and the birdsmouth cuts, Frank.

Of course, the real test of that comes when it's time to slap up the fascia.

But I got faith in ya.

[Frank Snyder]

Art -


You mentioned in an earlier post that you are working at this full time. Are you on an extended vacation, or is woodworking (going to be) your career?
Good question. I sure do like the idea of the commute from my back door to my garage (a whopping 10 feet). Sure beats an hour-plus train ride downtown. I do IT consulting, and project-based employment affords me some flexibility with my time. I'm not a professional woodworker, but who knows...


Also, I see from the plans that you have allowance for the car in there. Is that just for rare occaisions, or will it be in there all the time? That makes for an awkward shop.
I agree that having the car in the garage makes for an akward shop. However, I have to make the best of what space I have, and given that reality, I plan to deal with it accordingly. Most of my equipment is mobile, so I can expand and contract with the extra space as necessary, depending on what kind of project I'm working on. Considering what I had prior to this new workshop (a 10x10 tent on my back patio or having to use other peoples workshops), this is a huge improvement for me. If I had the space, I would follow Marty's example.


Are you going to insulate the ceiling, or put the insulation up under the roof?
I planned on using R-38 fiberglass insulation inside the ceiling joists (not the rafters) and R-13 in the walls, so the attic will not be climate controlled.


Great job on the roof, by the way. That'll give you a lot of attic space.
Thanks. This was my first time framing a roof. It was a valuable learning experience. I'm looking forward to having the extra storage space.

[Marty Walsh]

Art -


Good question. I sure do like the idea of the commute from my back door to my garage (a whopping 10 feet). Sure beats an hour-plus train ride downtown. I do IT consulting, and project-based employment affords me some flexibility with my time. I'm not a professional woodworker, but who knows...

Another IT sawdust maker...go figure...:cool:



...

If I had the space, I would follow Marty's example.



Frank, be careful what you wish for. Seeing how quickly and cleanly your shop is going up, I almost envy you not having to deal on the scale I'm dealing with!

As folks have already said, things are looking great. Keep it up, and keep the posts coming.

Thanks...
- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Andy -

Thanks for the compliments and your faith ;). I briefly considered doing the inside double-bevel rip on the valley rafters, but I took the easy way out and just dropped them enough for the sheathing.


Of course, the real test of that comes when it's time to slap up the fascia.
I already snapped lines across my rafter tails and cut them to plane and plumb using my Festool guide rail and saw. If my narrow fascia boards have any warp in them, it won't be due to the rafter tail lengths. I originally thought I go with 24" overhangs on the eves, but with the 10/12 pitch on the roof, they looked a little too long, so I cut them back to 18".

I'm only using 1x5's for the fascia boards to help support the gutters. The rest of the rafter tails are exposed, as are the eves. They get primed and painted, and I'm installing decorative wainscotting underneath the eves to match the house. The first story gets 6-1/4" fiber cement lap siding, and the gables get fiber cement shingles. There's also alot of exterior trimwork that gets installed. I'll post pictures as I progress.

Thanks again.

[Rich Stevens]

Frank,

Great progress as usual. Your work pace is astonishing...!

If you are planning on using the attic space for long term storage I suggest you consider installing insulation between the rafters as well. You'd be amazed how much damage does occur to stuff stored in uninsulated space over long periods of time.

While you have the chance now's a good time to act on it - before it becomes difficult later on. My 2 cents worth... DAMHIKT

Rich

[Art Mulder]

Another IT sawdust maker...go figure...:cool:

Ditto. IT also, but not consulting, so I have to work regular days. But on the other hand, that means I get "regular nights" off, as well as all the other benefits of a regular salary position.



If you are planning on using the attic space for long term storage I suggest you consider installing insulation between the rafters as well. You'd be amazed how much damage does occur to stuff stored in uninsulated space over long periods of time.

I was wondering the same thing. However, this would be a lot more work for Frank, and also cost more. There is more area to cover, so he'd need more insulation. He'd need continuous venting channels (insulation stops), and he'd need to put in a continous ridge vent also. Besides that... without mechanical ventilation, it is still going to cook up there in the summer.

Hmm, that reminds me. Frank, you put in radiant heating, which covers the winter. Are you putting in an A/C unit also, to give you relief during those hot and humid Chicago summers? (yes, Marty, I know that you laugh at our definition of "hot" and "humid"...:p)

best,
...art

[Frank Snyder]

Rich & Art - I planned on using a continuious ridge vent and using vents inside the frieze boards underneath the eves. I did this with my house as well, but added the Durovent baffles between the rafters and insulated the roof. As long as air can circulate in the attic during the Summer, I'm not sure I'm convinced that insulating between the rafters would be worth it. It's really just storage for raw materials, scraps, and seasonal stuff that's not of significant value.

I've considered some kind of cooling system for the Summer. Originally, I was just going to frame out a hole in one wall and install a window A/C unit, but then I learned about the mini-split systems, which look a lot more appealing. They're a bit on the costly side, so I will wait until next year to see if it gets unbearably hot in there before I take the plunge. I just need to make sure I can run the refrigerant lines from the blower to the condenser.

I run into quite a few "former-IT person turned woodworker" here and there. I'm not sure if there's an explanation for this crossover or if it's just coincidence. They both seem to be very detail-oriented professions, and for the most part, at least with those individuals that I've met, introverted. I've yet to meet a woodworker who became an IT professional. I can't imagine why ;).

[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, as someone else alluded to, you and Marty are MACHINES!!! Great work, and you move fast for small operations. I'm impressed! Not really sure why I have missed this thread. I think I saw it. But reading at work, I get a 10 minute window then I'm cut off. I usually read 1 or 2 threads and post a short note, that is if I'm not interrupted with real work. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. :D :rolleyes:
I'll be watching your progress. Maybe I'll get TLOML's computer finished up today so I can get mine back. Jim.

[Jim Becker]

I agree that insulation between the roof rafters is not going to buy you much. It takes time and money and the space isn't conditioned. I've seem some instances where folks stapled reflective material in that area to "bounce" heat back out, but don't know if it really works or not.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I dream of the day when my routine is going to the shop 25 feet behind my back door to work all day. I tired quickly of the 30 mile drive to Dallas.

[Frank Snyder]

My apologies...the weather has not been cooperating as we've been getting rain storms for the past week and its been putting me behind schedule. Today was really the first day we've had with just a sprinkle of rain and then it cleared up and the sun came out to play. I spent most of the day sheathing the backside of the roof. I had started it yesterday in the rain, and in my haste, I lost track of my chalk lines (they tend to disappear in the rain) and by the end of the first course, I was off by about an inch. Whoah! So this morning, I spent a few hours pulling nails and removing the sheathing, only to start again with a fresh chalk line. This time, the first course came out perfectly straight. I should've called it a wash yesterday, spared myself the labor and stayed inside. Tomorrow is supposed to be clear (gee..where I have I heard THAT before?), so I should be able to finish off the sheathing barring any weather anomolies. It was dark by the time I wrapped things up this evening, so I didn't bother to take any pictures. I promise I'll get some posted after tomorrow.:)

[Frank Snyder]

Whew! Just about done with the roof sheathing. Man-handling these 5/8" plywood sheets up onto the rafters is a real workout. I should be able to finish tomorrow and then I need to prime and paint the barge rafters, and get them installed on Saturday. Once those are in, I can begin roofing...hopefully by Sunday if the weather cooperates.

I was originally planning on making the garage door, but time is getting away from me, so I decided to just order one. The fiber cement siding also arrives tomorrow morning.

I snapped some pictures this evening just before sundown. All of my rafter tails are in plane, though it may be hard to tell from these tiny photos. I'll post more pictures tomorrow.

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[randy street]

Great job Frank. I've been commuting between your area and Florida weekly, our office is in Bloomingdale. The nice weather there has definitely been sporadic lately.

Keep up the good job.

Regards

Randy

[Rich Stevens]

Frank,

I went through your earlier postings and have worked out that its taken you only three weeks to get from the concrete floor to where you are now.

Tell me, are you on steroids ? Ha Ha Ha, Hmmmm

If it was me, I'd be still getting quotes for the concrete slab.

Rich

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Great job on the roof. Sorry to hear you had rip the first course out. (You need water proof chalk...;) )

Out of curiosity, how many sheets of 5/8 did it take to cover your project? I ask only because the 99 sheets it took to cover mine (and my fear of heights) is what made me sub my roof out. There's NO WAY I could have hauled all that up a ladder and still had energy to lay it down.

Also, you say you're fiber-cement siding arrives tomorrow. Are you using Hardi-Plank? That's what I originally planned to use, but the weight and need for painting and caulking has me looking into alternatives. I"ll be interested to see how it goes for you.

Keep up the great work...and good luck with better weather.
- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Marty - I figured 40 sheets of 4x8 5/8" exterior rated plywood. I may need a few more sheets...we'll see tomorrow.

Yep, I went with HardiPlank and HardiShingle (for the gable walls). I got it primed and plan on painting it with SW Duration paint, so I only need to put ONE coat on :).

Caulking is pretty much routine for everything exterior I've learned. I rigged up a pneumatic caulk gun with a regulator, so that should speed things up a bit. It was either Cedar siding and shingles (which I have on my house), or fiber cement. The latter was actually much less expensive and doesn't need the yearly maintenance that my cedar does (caulking joints, splitting, paint cracking, etc...). I'm not a fan of vinyl or aluminum, so those were my choices. I know fiber cement is really heavy, but it is really stable and withstands the elements much better than does wood.

Rich - 3 Weeks? That can't be right? Is that right? Let's see...the lumber got here August 11th...wow...that is right. It seems much, much longer, especially since last week was pretty much a wash with the weather.

Steroids? No...just a LOT of coffee and sugar. I also consume about 6 quarts of Gatorade a day when I'm working.

Randy - Thanks. Bloomingdale is just down the road from us (North Avenue). The weather last week was just plain weird.

Thanks again for the comments, I'll have more progress reports this weekend.

[tod evans]

frank, you`re kickin` it in the butt! looking good....tod

[Frank Snyder]

The weather has once again taken control over my pace of this project...rain last night, today and predicted tomorrow as well.

I finished up the sheathing on Friday and spent the rest of the day running errands trying to find decent looking 2x10's for the barge rafters. The ones that I received with my lumber delivery had way too many knots and defects. My wife spent Saturday prepping the boards, priming and painting them. Its a lot easier to do this while they are on the ground rather than hanging in the air. She also spent most of yesterday priming and painting the rafter tails. This is a smart step to do now before the siding goes on...no drips to worry about.

My wife, brother-in-law and myself were able to get one up last night before the rain came. It's an akward process, with the weight of the 2x10 and trying to get it perfectly in position, marked, cut to fit, then placed into position again, clamped, then attached using 3-1/2" #10 exterior screws through the sheathing and into the ends of the lookouts. It took us well over an hour just to get the one side installed. I still need make the brackets which support these barge rafters and install them.

My wife also brought me home a personal fall arrestor system, complete with harness, a 30 ft. rope, a rope grab and anchor. I think this was a smart purchase on her behalf...especially since this 10/12 pitch roof is slick and its easy to lose your grip and slide off. I nailed down some 2x4 cleats with duplex 16d nails to give me additional footing while I hang the barge rafters.

My main proiority is to get the roof waterproofed ASAP, but I can't do that until these barge rafters are hung, then I can install the Ice & Water Shield, 30# tar paper, drip edge and flashing. I did this backwards when I replaced the barge rafters on my house and it was a real pain. I hate leaving the roof sheathing exposed like this while its raining, but I'm told that the exterior rated plywood can handle it (though the overhangs have warped quite a bit). Once I get the barge rafters hung, the plywood will straighten out.

Hopefully I will have the barge rafters hung by Wednesday and I can begin slapping down some shingles.

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[Marty Walsh]

Fantastic progress Frank, in spite of the rain. I know how you feel about wanting to get the roof finished and get the structure dried in. We're getting poured on daily now, but luckily the roof made it up before the storms started.

Good luck getting the shingles up...and make sure to use that fall arrestor. 10:12....yikes!! :eek:

- Marty -

[randy street]

Frank, things are looking good. Sorry about the weather. Wednesday looks like a good day on the forecast map, hopefully everything hold up.

Ragards

Randy

[Jim O'Dell]

Good progress, Frank. Sorry you are having rain slow down your progress. It's rained all day here today, and we are loving it!!! Low 80's yesterday with a hint of rain, but nothing materialized. I worked in the shop from 10:00 to 5:30 building a blast gate that will double as a quik disconect for the TS down pipe. Had to make a jig for my router to cut the circle the right size. It's so tight I have to hammer the pipe into it! Won't be long before you are working on shop projects. Keep it up! Jim.

[Rich Stevens]

Frank et al,

Long range weather forecasters in Australia are predicting an early start to our warm months (remember Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere therefore everything is in reverse here; ie your summer = our winter). The average temperature in August for Melbourne was 7 degrees celcius higher than the mean and we are also suffering from a shortage of rain.

Water restrictions have already kicked in thus limiting household water consumption. For example, no automated water sprinkler systems can be used, only hand held watering devices etc etc.

Climate change is definitely more pronounced globally - look at what Katrina did to you guys last year. And over here its getting hotter and drier. Our farmers are already crying out for some break in the weather to allow them to sow seed.

Send some of that rain down here will ya!

Sorry for the off-topic rant...

Rich

[Frank Snyder]

I have finally fallen in favor of the weather gods and progress has been made!:D

Tuesday's forecast was 80% chance of rain, but it never did. After waiting around for most of the day trying to figure out what the weather was going to do, I was able to recruit another friend of mine (Eric) late in the afternoon to help me finish hanging the 5 remaining barge rafters. Surprisingly, we were able to knock these out in about 2 hours. With some daylight left, we scrambled to start prepping the backside of the roof for shingling. By 7:30pm, we had 3 courses of shingles run. Eric came back this morning around 7am and we were able to finish the backside of the roof by noon. After lunch, we began work on the front side of the roof and called it a day around 4pm when we ran out of Ice & Water shield for the valleys. Despite the beautiful weather, the sun was actually making things difficult, especially when installing the Ice & Water shield. It turns the stuff into a hot gluey substance that sticks to everything. This is definitely a product you want to install in the shade or before the sun hits the roof.

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continued...

[Frank Snyder]

The next 2 days are supposed to be clear, so between Eric and I, we should be able to finish the roof by tomorrow without too much difficulty.

I know, I know...I'm not wearing my Personal Fall Arrestor in the pictures...the rope was actually causing more of a risk to Eric since it would follow me around and trip him or get in his way. So instead, we installed a lot of roof jacks and planks to work off of and we were fine. I think having more than one person on the roof with this system can be more of a hazard than not. Now that the shingles are installed, traction has improved over the bare plywood and staying attached to the roof is a little less of a challenge. We left the roof anchor installed on the peak so if I ever had to do any repair work in the future, I'd have some level of safety. I also broke down and rented some 29" scaffodling which we used for installing the barge rafters on the East side of the garage (only 3 feet from neighbors fence makes using a ladder a problem) and for installing the shingles on the eves and the siding in the gables. This additional expense should also speed thinges up a bit.

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I will post some more pictures tomorrow once the roof is complete.

[Roy Wall]

Terrific work Frank and Eric!!!!

It looks excellent..... a roof provides a great sense of relief against the elements....well done!

Be safe and thanks for the story.........

[Frank Snyder]

Well...I promised finished pictures today, but unfortunately, I ran out of shingle caps for the ridge at about 8 feet shy of completion. Of course, this occured at 7:30pm, just before dark, so I had to call it a day. I will pick up some more tomorrow morning and post final pictures.

Eric stuck around till about 4:30pm, and many thanks to him, we were able to knock this roof out in two days time. It would've taken me at least twice that long if I had to do it alone. Eric did almost of the nailing while I wrestled bundles of shingles up on the roof and kept the supply chain moving. Roofing is brutal work and my hat is off to those who do it for a living.

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More pictures to come tomorrow...

[Frank Snyder]

Finally...the roof is complete! I finished up the caps this morning and installed the five awning windows. It's supposed to rain all weekend, but at least I can still get some work done inside the garage now that it is "dried out". I need to start working on the brackets for the barge rafters and install the beadboard under the eves. Once the entry and garage door have been delivered, I will install them and begin siding, hopefully no later than next week. Stay tuned...

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[Jim O'Dell]

WHOOOO HOOOOOOOO! Looks great! Is the space inside going to be as usable as you hoped for when designing it? Now, take your drawings and decide where all the equipment is going to go, then mark for where the electrical gets installed. Keep at it! Jim.

[Art Mulder]

Looks great, Frank. No window in the gable ends for the attic?

[Bob Marino]

Hey Frank,

Looks great. I am amazed at your rate of progress and embarrassed at mine. I have taken more time painting the walls and ceiling and deciding which shelves to put where than you have taken to build/frame/roof your shop!

Bob

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks, guys, for the encouragement. It helps tremendously.

Jim - Having had what I had prior to this, I am truly ecstatic about having any space at all to call my own. I spent some time with Sketchup laying out which tools go where and I think I have a good plan. I wrestled with the whole single-function vs. multi-function equipment argument before I began this project. In the end, I decided to stick with single-function machines even though they take up more space. The worst part is that they're still in their crates and have been sitting in storage since April...talk about having to wait for Christmas. I'm also considering surface mounting all of the electrical in conduit...I haven't decided for sure just yet. My panel is too deep for a wall cavity, so it has to be surface mounted. I still have some time before I need to decide.

Art - You know...I wanted to put something in the gables but when you add the frieze boards, casing, and the brackets, proportions dictate something of a size so small that it negates the whole purpose. I considered a little access door for loading lumber, but there's not a whole lot of room to work with. Again, I just couldn't fit something in there that made sense and looked balanced.

Bob - Just wait until I get to the stage where you're at...I'm sure I'll come to a screeching halt and kill a bunch of time trying to decide what color to paint the walls. There's still a long way to go before I get to that point.

[tod evans]

congratulations frank! a roof is a major milestone. tod

[randy street]

Frank,

Any new updates?

Regards

Randy

[lou sansone]

hi frank

gee, somehow I missed this whole thread. looking very good indeed. its too bad you have to park the car in that nice new shop of yours:)

best wishes
lou

[Frank Snyder]

My apologies for the lack of updates this week. We had a LOT of rain from last Sunday until Thursday, which kept me indoors. I was able to make the brackets for the barge rafters inside my shop where it was dry. Late Thursday, I began installing the brackets. On Friday, I began boxing out between the rafters underneath the eves and gables using 2x2's. PVC beadboard is then installed over these 2x2's to create an air channel for the continuos rafter ventilation. Yesterday, I installed the Azek PVC trimboards, and began installing the fiber-cement shingles for the gable walls. I should be able to finish one of three walls today and get it painted before the rain comes this evening. This weeks forecast is also calling for more rain, so I have to play it by ear. I'm hoping to have the siding and trim done by next Sunday. My wife snapped these pictures yesterday...I'll post more this evening.

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[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, my electrical box would have fit, but would have made the back of the box touching what ever type of wall covering I decide to put on the other side, so I took some 2X2 material and bumped out just the section for the electrical panel and extended it up to the ceiling. Now my panel is on an interior wall. If yours is on an exterior wall, I agree that the insulation would be more advantageous than a flush electrical box. But you could still use some 2X4's to block it out so it's only the face of the box that is visable. Would look a little more finished, and it would give you a place to run the wires that would also be hidden, and therefore possibly (depending on codes) not have to have a metal pipe exposed to run the wiring into the box. Just a thought. Jim.

ps: Don't feel bad. I have a Clear Vue cyclone and a MIni Max E16 bandsaw that have been in my shop for 17 months or so, and still no electricity turned on to play with them! Worse, a Delta lunchbox planer, Woodpecker PRL, PC 7518, and an Incra LS router fence system from over 2 years ago, never out of their boxes.:o :o :o That's what happens when tools go on sale and you have no place to use them!

[Steve Clardy]

Good looking shop/ garage there Frank.
I somehow missed this thread also.
Had a lot of reading to catch up on!

[Corey Hallagan]

Great progress Frank! It won't be long now.

Corey

[Frank Pellow]

Frank, I have been away most of the last 3 months and, I too did not see the thread. I have just found the thread and glanced at it briefly but already I can see what a good job you are doing.

I look forward to reading the thread in detail later on but, in the meantime, congratulations on on your design, your craftsmanship, and your speed (from a fellow woodworker/construction-worker named Frank who two years ago right now was in the middle of building his stand-alone shop).

[Frank Snyder]

Rain, rain and more rain. It was dry until 3pm, then it down poured while I was finishing up the painting. Surprisingly, the Duration paint wasn't phased by the rain. The paint goes on as thick as glue and it dries so fast. Really good stuff.

It cleared up around 4pm, so I snuck outside and finished painting the last few shingles, took a few photos, and then sure enough, it started to pour again. I guess I'll have to start the next gable tomorrow.

Some photos in between the downpour...

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[randy street]

Looking good Frank. Hopefully the weather will cooperate for you.

Regards

Randy

[Frank Snyder]

Two gables done, one more to go. I still need to paint the shingles on this gable but I ran out of daylight this evening. Tomorrow, I'll have my wife work on the painting while I work on trimming out the next gable.

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[Art Mulder]

Frank... need to tack down that bit of flashing in the third picture. ;)

And I must say how impressed I am at how well you are architecturally tying this in to the main house. This is going to look like it has always been there by the time you are finished!!.

(Like those angle-brace things up under the eaves. Those are a really cool detail.)

So is this getting a stock aluminum garage door on it, or are you getting some fancy wooden craftsman-styled door. (just sign here sir, and deposit the arm and leg in that box over there... :eek:)

best,
...art

[Frank Snyder]

Art - Yeah...I'll get to the drip edge eventually. It always kicks out like that when you overlap it. I need to use little aluminum trim nails to get it to lay flat.

Thanks for the kind words. Our main goal was to make this garage/workshop look like an extension of the house, matching the trim details and so forth. There are some minor differences with the type of materials used, casing widths, siding exposure, etc..., but you'd really have a hard time noticing it without a lot of careful studying.

The brackets are a signature detail of Craftsman homes.

For the garage door, I was originally planning on making a Craftsman-style door out of Hemlock. However, I'm behind schedule and I need a full-functioning shop to actually make the door, so felt the best solution was to buy the door at this late part of the process. I ordered a Clopay Coachman steel/composite insulated door with divided lights on the upper panel. It will undoubtedly insulate better than a solid wood door, and the composite exterior will withstand the Southern exposure much better than would painted wood. The cost wasn't too bad, and it's a no-maintenance door.

Once I finish siding and all of the exterior details, I need to lay the pavers for our driveway and get some sod down before it gets too cold. At that point, I will go back to working on the inside of the garage for the electrical and drywall.

[Roy Wall]

You're GOOD Frank.........

Just flat out GOOD!!! Nice work.

[Frank Snyder]

The gable walls are finally done. Now I can return this rickety scaffolding that I've been renting :). I also began casing out the windows, but I ran out of daylight before I could finish. As soon as I finish casing all of the openings, I will begin installing the lap siding. The weather forecast is calling for rain the next three days, so I'm not sure if I'll get out there to work this weekend...have to play it by ear. My days are getting shorter as I type this so I'll have to hustle over the next few weeks.

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[Jim Becker]

Those brackets look really nice, Frank.

Not fun if the weather doesn't cooperate, but at least with the envelope done you can work indoors on other things if you have to delay the siding.

[Andy Hoyt]

Sorry Frank; but those "brackets" look so well executed that I think you should start referring to them by their correct name - corbel.

I remain impressed by all you've done.

[Frank Snyder]

Andy - Thanks for clarification. I honestly didn't know these "brackets" could be called "corbels". They're just 4x4 Doug-Fir posts that have been cut-up with some crude construction-grade tools, glued, lag-screwed and painted. When I think of "corbel", I envision something carved by hand or a bottle of bubbly. It's nice to know that someone out there knows the proper terminology for this stuff.

I appreciate the encouragement, nonetheless. Thanks everyone.

[Norman Hitt]

It's really looking good, Frank, and I agree that the "Corbels";) REALLY set it off beautifully.

As to the suggestion, I've nailed down overlapped drip edges that pop out like yours many times, but eventually, the nails always seem to loosen up and it pops back out again, Buuuuut.......I finally found a cure, just get the shortest "Pop Rivets", (steel ones instead of aluminum if they have them in stock) then press the edge moldings flat against the fascia and drill two holes, about 3 to 4 inches apart (lengthwise of the overlap), and while still holding everything tight up against the fascia, install the pop rivets. Lightly tap the rivets with a hammer and the back side of the pop rivets will go into the shallow hole you drilled into the wood as you were drilling through the metal, and everything will lay flat, and most importantly, it will remain that way.

[Frank Snyder]

Norman - thanks for the drip edge tip...I'll give it a try as soon as the weather clears up.

We've had a spot of rain here and there over the last two days. It's not supposed to clear up until Monday, so this weekend is probably going to be a bust.

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I spent this morning shoveling my yard off the sidewalk. Nothing quite like living on a construction site ;).

Now I just need to build a bridge from my house to my garage...

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[Jim O'Dell]

It started raining here about 20 minutes ago. It will be over with in another 20, then the sun will come out, and be miserable!! I wish we could get your rain storms here...would be nice to fill the creek back up so I could water the lawn again when it's not raining.
Good luck with the bridge. :eek: Hopefully there is some work you can do inside this weekend. Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Jim - I'll take the light sprinkles over the monsoons any day. At least I can work through a sprinkle...the downpour we had yesterday made a real mess of things. We're at the top of a hill and even we had standing water. We also had multiple tornado warnings throughout the day. With all of the sirens going, it sounded like an air raid.

Thanks for the electrical box suggestion...boxing out the short wall to accomodate the depth of the box is the only way I can conceal the conduit. I still haven't decided how I'm going to deal with the electrical just yet. Hopefully, I can get a trench dug for the electrical service this week and I can get some of the electrical work out of the way.

Once I actually finish the exterior, the weather won't have such an impact on my productivity and I can begin focusing on the cozy interior details. And watch...we'll have beautiful weather once I start to work inside:rolleyes:.

[Jim O'Dell]

Once I actually finish the exterior, the weather won't have such an impact on my productivity and I can begin focusing on the cozy interior details. And watch...we'll have beautiful weather once I start to work inside:rolleyes:.

Don't you know that's right! Jim.

[Norman Hitt]

[QUOTE=Frank Snyder]

I still haven't decided how I'm going to deal with the electrical just yet. Hopefully, I can get a trench dug for the electrical service this week and I can get some of the electrical work out of the way.

QUOTE]

I don't know what size service you are planning on, but for mine, (200 Amp service) I need 2.0 cable (3 of them x 115' to 120' each, plus one smaller ground cable the same length, to meet local code), and if you haven't priced the cable yet, get ready for some "REAL" sticker shock.:eek: When I first priced that 2.0 cable 3 years ago, it was around 65 cents a ft., 3 weeks ago it was $2.85/ft, and 4 days ago it was $3.18/ft.:mad: I think I'm fighting a losing battle trying to get my shop budget up enough to ever buy the cable.:rolleyes:

At least with all the rain you've had, it should be "easy digging" to get the trench dug for the cable.;) :D

[Frank Snyder]

Norman - I was originally planning on running 100 amp service to the garage after I upgrade my service to the house from 100 amps to 200 amps. But as of recently, I decided I'm just going keep my main service at 100 amps and just run 60 amps out to the garage. I know I'll get some static from the crowd for this decision, but I honestly can't see myself as a one man shop needing more than 60 amps at one given time. My equipment isn't that powerful and I can only use one tool at a time (with the DC).

For the electrical connection from the house to the garage, I only need to trench 8" deep with RMC, and the run is only about 10 feet, so this shouldn't be too labor intensive. I've got about 200 feet of 6AWG I bought some time ago which I can use for the 60 amp service. I would hate to have to buy anything larger with copper costing what is does today.

[Marty Walsh]

Well Frank, after your post to my thread, I just had to come over here and see how you're progressing. Boy, I have to tell you, the details you're adding at fantastic. As others are pointing out, those corbels kick the style up a notch for sure! Really great job!

As for the electrical, I can't even imagine running "only" 60 amps to the shop. Of course, your shop isn't on the same scale as mine, but with a good sized piece of equipment (saw/planer/shaper/etc.), a dust collector, lights, heat or a/c, are you sure 60 amps will be enough?

As I told you in my thread, I'm putting in 400 amps, 100 of which will be eaten up by the HVAC alone! :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, shop electrical is like shop size...you can never have enough! :rolleyes:

Keep up the great work. Hope the weather improves and lets you get the outside done.

- Marty -

[Frank Pellow]

It's really looking good, Frank, and I agree that the "Corbels";) REALLY set it off beautifully.

As to the suggestion, I've nailed down overlapped drip edges that pop out like yours many times, but eventually, the nails always seem to loosen up and it pops back out again, Buuuuut.......I finally found a cure, just get the shortest "Pop Rivets", (steel ones instead of aluminum if they have them in stock) then press the edge moldings flat against the fascia and drill two holes, about 3 to 4 inches apart (lengthwise of the overlap), and while still holding everything tight up against the fascia, install the pop rivets. Lightly tap the rivets with a hammer and the back side of the pop rivets will go into the shallow hole you drilled into the wood as you were drilling through the metal, and everything will lay flat, and most importantly, it will remain that way.
Good tip Norman! I wish that I had had that in my bag of tricks when I installed drip edge on both my house and my shop within the last couple of years.

[Frank Pellow]

...
I've yet to meet a woodworker who became an IT professional. I can't imagine why ;).

I was a woodworker/carpenter (for money as a summer job) before I became an IT professional. Now, I am just a woodworker /carpenter (and for no money). Isn't life funny sometimes.

[Frank Snyder]

Time for an update! On Tuesday, I was able to finish casing out the windows and doors, and I installed the water table. I also installed the exterior light fixtures for the garage. After painting the trim, I began tacking up some siding on Wednesday and continued into today. I'm about half-way done and I should be able to finish up by the weekend if the weather holds up.

The fiber cement siding is not too difficult to work with. Despite being a man-made product, it is not uniform in width like I had expected. I'm using Malco's fiber cement hangers to install the siding, and the varying widths (up to 3/16") threw me off the first few courses. I now need to measure up for each course rather than trusting the hangers. I began using the "score & snap" method for cutting the fiber cement. While this works just fine, its not the fastest method IMO and it eats razor blades. I decided to try out a cheap 7-1/4" 6-tooth fiber cement blade which cuts a heck of a lot faster and makes finish quality cuts. It does make some dust, but that's what dust masks are for ;).

My garage door has been delayed another two weeks...I guess Clopay moved their manufacturing plant right after I placed my order over a month ago...at least this is what I'm told. My new delivery date is October 12th, so we'll see. Maybe I'll be making that door after all...

Once I finish the siding (followed by caulk and paint), I just need to finish up the trim beneath the eves and get some gutters installed, then the exterior of the garage is done. Next week, I'll run electric out to the garage and place my paver order for the driveway and back patio. Oh, and I need to get some sod out here as well. Hopefully, I can wrap all of this up in the next two weeks. Now where did I put my cape?

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[Norman Hitt]

That is REALLY looking NICE, Frank. Glad to see you're getting some decent weather to work in, and I see you're making the most of it too. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya on the Door Delivery date.;)

[Marty Walsh]

Wow Frank,

Looking REALLY good!

Too bad I didn't think about it earlier, I got one the Hitachi "Hardi" blades on sale from Amazon, since my original plan was to use Hardi-Plank on my shop. My plans have changed so I could have let that blade go. Sounds like you have a solution regardless.

And given the pace you're keeping, so much for me gettin mine done first. My sidiing isn't even here yet...and I have a wee bit more than you to put up...;)

Kepe up the great work and updates...
- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks Marty, Norman. I got this fiber-cement blade for $12...it was cheaper than the 50-pack of razor blades I would've gone through.

Those 4x8(?) sheets should cover things up pretty quickly provided you don't have to install them by yourself. I've found those orange plastic panel carriers (Stanley?) a real lifesaver when handling heavy sheet goods. I've even used them to hang 16ft. lengths of drywall horizontally by myself.

You're still ahead of me...you've at least got your panel saw inside your shop already...I'm still at least another month before I can park some tools under this roof.

[Jim O'Dell]

Looks nice, Frank! Did you get the blade that has 3 teeth on it? After I literally wore a regular cargide tipped blade to the nubs (no carbide left on it!!) on the Hardi board I used, I found the blade designed for this. Don't remember the price, but it was cheap. Thought it would have a lot of tear out, but it worked great, and lasted longer. The dust is gruesome, though. If I had a lot to do, I think I would invest in the shears.
Keep up the good work! You'll be "inside" in no time! Jim

[Lars Thomas]

Frank, I don't know where you have been hiding this thread?? I just read through it. Great work on the shop (and kitchen to). I'm just up the road from you (Geneva). Let me know if you need any help. Lars

[Steve Clardy]

Looking good Frank.
Are you going to put J trim, flashing on top of your window trim before you install the siding on top of you windows?

[Mike Spanbauer]

Not sure how i missed this thread either. Excellent progress rate on a pretty sharp looking shop.

How are you going to heat condition the air in this place? I remember the summers in North Ill. and remember how much 'fun' they were. Winters aren't exactly 'cheery' either :) Just wondering if you've worked through the power requirements for this as you're at the perfect time to make a change if needed.

DC, 1 large tool, lights, and any heating or AC could push 60 amps with no other items on. Consider an ambient dust collector, and your compressor comes on while running that first set of operations and then.... blink.

Wish I had the property to build a shop, next house will allow for it though.

mike

[Frank Snyder]

Jim - I got the blade with 6 carbide teeth on it. Works great. The teeth seem unphased by the harsh cutting. The shears would be cool, but I can't justify buying them for just this siding job.

Lars- Thanks for the help offer...I can't imagine putting complete strangers to work for me, though, it is a really kind gesture. You're more than welcome to stop by and see the place for yourself. PM me and I can give you directions.

Steve - The Marvin windows I used have plastic flanges, corner seals and a built-in drip cap. I flashed around the flange with bituminous door & window tape, followed by the PVC casing and PVC drip cap molding, followed by a generous bead of OSI caulk. I'll also caulk between the casing and the siding when I'm done. The siding also sits on top of the PVC drip cap molding and creates an overlap, so I'd be seriously shocked if I have any water infiltration anytime soon.

Mike - For heat, the concrete slab has raditant heat with a tankless natural gas boiler. There are some electronics for the boiler, but nothing to worry about in terms of amperage. I haven't determined if I need A/C just yet...I'll re-evaluate next Summer to see if I really need it. I could get by with a small window unit or mini-split system. Running more than 60 amps out to the garage means I need to upgrade my service main ($500 expense, plus materials). There's a half a day's work upgrading the main panel (with the power off) and routing the larger sized conduit around my basement to get outside. All of this completely feasible, I'm just trying to keep costs down since I'm over my budget.

I'd be interested to hear if there are any woodworkers using 60amp service in their shop with or without any problems. Nonetheless, I appreciate the concern and I'm open to suggestions.

This is as large (588sq. ft.) of a garage/workshop the city would let me build on our 50x100 lot. I can truly sympathize with those of you who work without a shop. I spent a lot of time in other people's shops and underneath my tent getting projects done, so I know exactly what it is like.

Thanks again, everyone, for the encouragement.

[Russ Massery]

Frank, I have 60amp in my shop. Just upgraded the breaker in the panel to it. I had just a 40amp but I upgraded to a Clearvue cyclone that needed a 30amp on it's own. I bought number 6 wire so that's the max. But with everthing running, I feel it's plenty. 40 was enough before the Cyclone. BTW The shop looks great! I love craftsman style houses. I sided a couple of years ago. Was looking at Fiber-cement. Now I wish I had gone the route.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Ah, radiant, awesome choice. The AC won't be an issue until somewhere around May anyway :) The humidity might be something to consider at that point though, but I'm spoiled since I've been away from there for so long. That is going to be one very nice shop, no question. Looks like you dig into projects much like I do. Built a 15x18 shed / shop for relatives in 3.5 weeks time from slab to finish.

Was born and raised in Rockford, don't miss it :)

Cheers,
Mike

[Andy Hoyt]

I've got 60 amps in my shop. The rationale was that it's just me and that the most amperage I'd ever pull was with the DC with either the table saw or jointer running too. Never been a problem. But the house lights do dim momentarily whenever I fire up the table saw - or so I'm told.

[Lars Thomas]

Frank, I have a 60 amp sub panel in my basement shop. No problems. However, I don't need/have any heating/AC running through that panel. If you think you might add AC at some point, you might find yourself in a jam. Figure you've got 20 amps for a Table Saw, 20 for a Dust Collection and 15 for lights. 60amps can become tight quick.

[Dave Shively]

Frank & Marty,

Last night I reread through just about all of you post on your shops (and it took
quite some time I might add) and I must say I am very impressed as to how well
you two are progressing. It brings back a lot of fond memories as well as quite
a few heartaches, headaches, backaches and another kind of ache you can
think of. You two have my wholehearted sympathy as well as my admiration
on each on your endeavors. If I lived close to either one of you I would be
there in a minute just to help out and get in on some of the fun. Especially
when it cam time to "accessorize" the inside of your shops. Anyway I don't
always respond to your post, but I do read them to see how things are going.

Oh yah, your wives sure deserve a lot of credit too! They go through the same
hardships as well.

Dave

[Frank Snyder]

Finally...the siding is done. I still need to caulk the joints and paint it, but it is done. My fiber cement blade was starting to show some wear. I think I got my $12 worth of use out of it.

I'm going to spend Monday finishing the beadboard under the eaves and install the frieze boards and trim. That gets two coats of white paint, and then I will begin caulking and painting the siding. Once the painting is done, I will tack up some gutters and focus on the electric service, the paver driveway, and sod. Got to get the sod down soon.

My goal is to have everything finished no later than November 1st, so lets see if I can make that deadline.

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Dave - Thanks for the post. There's no question that attempting a project like this is a huge amount of work, especially when you're doing most of it by yourself. My sole motivation that gets me through each laborious day is knowing that soon I will able to work on projects year round, regardless of the weather. I would not be able to do any of this without the support from my wife, Amy. She's been a real trooper through all of this construction and mahem.

[Jim O'Dell]

Very nice, very nice indeed. That's a good milestone, getting the outside almost wrapped up. Won't take long to caulk it, then wait a day and paint. The paver driveway will ba a nice addition. Jim.

[Corey Hallagan]

Very nice beautiful shop Frank! Hope you make your deadline!

Corey

[Marty Walsh]

Wow Frank,

I'm jealous! Looking REALLY GOOD!!!! I'm quite a ways til I get the outside done on my shop! :(

Hope you meet your deadline. (That's something I've refused to set for myself...can't take the pressure :rolleyes: )

- Marty -

[Art Mulder]

Once the painting is done, I will tack up some gutters and focus on the electric service, the paver driveway, and sod. Got to get the sod down soon.


Frank,

I remain very impressed at how well you've matched this shop to the house - and that is just with glimpses of house walls in the corners of photos.

At some point, possibly at the end, it would be nice to see pictures that show the house as well as the shop, to show how they fit.

A paver driveway? you are a glutton for punishment. I hope you're contracting that out?

I've seen too many of those where either the base was not properly prepared, or the homeowner parked something way too heavy for it, on top. As in, wavy driveways. Sure you don't want a nice simple asphalt driveway? Smooth and easy for shoveling that winter snow... :D


best,
...art

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks, guys, for the compliments.

Art - I promise I'll take some photos of the "after" including the house. My goal was to make this garage look as original to the house as possible. And most importantly, to make the exterior as "zero" maintenance as possible.

I'm planning on installing the paver driveway myself. Yes, it is a lot of work, and I've seen some really bad paver installations as well. I've installed pavers before (just walks, no driveways), and base preparation is everything for a successful installation. The 6" gravel base has been in place since July and has been driven on by 20-ton gravel trucks, concrete trucks and other heavy equipment. It's pretty well compacted at this point. I still need to grade it here and there, then run a plate compactor over it to smooth out any adjustments I made. Unilock has a very detailed installation manual (82 pages long) which I will follow, so there shouldn't be too many opportunities for me to mess up. If I got cold feet at the last moment, I would do concrete over asphalt. A lot of Crafstman bungalows used to have "Hollywood" style driveways, but they're outlawed now. Those would be really easy to shovel;). If I had the funds, I'd run radiant heat out to the driveway, but then all my neighbors would really despise me.

[Frank Snyder]

Well...just for the heck of it, I decided to get a quote for a concrete driveway (and apron) from a new contractor today and it came in $2K less than what it would cost me in materials to do a paver driveway. I'm thinking this is a no brainer, right? He's going to fax me a quote in writing and I'll talk it over with the wife tonight. We could still do a paver border to try and soften it up a bit. But honestly, $2K is a significant savings and the fact that I could spare myself the additional labor is very appealing. We'll still do the pavers for the back patio, but that is a weekend project by comparison.

We're getting some pretty severe thunderstorms today, so I had to wrap it up earlier than I had expected. This week's forecast is calling for storms pretty much every day (again), so I will work as the weather allows.

[Steve Clardy]

Yea. 2 grand would be a go for me.

[Norman Hitt]

Hey, Frank, with a $2,000 savings, maybe you could get Part of that drive with Radiant Heat after all. Just think, less Shovel Time = More Shop Time.:D

[Vaughn McMillan]

Especially in snow country, I'd go with concrete instead of pavers, even without the $2K difference. I would think even the best paver installation will eventually be more succeptible to freeze/thaw problems than concrete. (I've been involved in quite a bit of paving in climates that freeze.) And to heck with the neighbors hating you, Norman has a great idea about putting the savings into heat. ;)

The shop's looking great, Frank!

[Matt Warfield]

Yep, pavers are a real pain to remove snow from. Best way is a stiff rubber blade on a snow plow and even then, the pavers will gradually move around and it won't look too good in 10 years or so. Softening the edges with pavers is a great idea. And don't forget about the possibility of staining or tinting the concrete.

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the suggestions. My wife and I discussed this last night and we agree that the concrete makes a lot of sense. I signed the proposal this morning and they should start work within a week or so.

As cozy as a paver driveway may appear, it is a pain to shovel (as many of you have pointed out), it can settle unevenly over time, weeds have a tendancy of popping up between the joints, and it is a LOT of labor to install. We're still going to install the paver patio ourselves, but this we can handle.

Our last driveway was concrete and it had spalled really bad, most likely from the salt during the winters. I'm told that sealing the concrete every other year will help prevent this from happening, so if that's the only maintenance it needs, I can handle that.

Heating the driveway is a great idea, but I'm pretty sure it would be more than $2K worth of materials (my driveway is about 800 square feet). It would also mean that we would want to heat the patio, or at least the path from the garage to the house and the house to the driveway, so that no shoveling would be required, and this would also add to the additional cost.

Since I'm already over budget, the $2K savings will help us get back on track with our expenses.

We got hammered with storms and rain again yesterday. Boy did I pick the wrong year to do this project...

[Rob Russell]

You can probably add radiant heat to your driveway for less than the $2K you saved. You can even do it in stages. The big thing would be to lay the tubing in now as part of the driveway pour. You could hold off adding the hot water heater, pumps, plumbing and wiring until later on.

Just a thought.

[Art Mulder]

You can probably add radiant heat to your driveway for less than the $2K ....

Rob and everyone else... are you serious? People actually DO put radiant heat in driveways? Doesn't that take like a stupidly huge amount of energy to run? :eek:

Frank, which way does your driveway face? Mine faces almost directly south. In the winter I love it, because the the sun comes out and warms up that black asphalt and helps keep the driveway clear of snow. Yes, I still need to shovel, but the sun helps when the accumulation is small, and helps "clean up" after I shovel larger snowfalls.

[Frank Snyder]

Rob-

For my garage slab, the PEX tubing and Insultarps came in at around $1100. Granted, the slab required more PEX for the tighter spacing so I could acheive 70 degree temperatures when its zero outside, whereas the driveway only needs to keep the surface temperature above freezing so the spacing would be greater (less PEX). I'd also be compelled to do the same for the back patio which serves as a pass through to the garage, house and driveway, so I would need to add that as well. You're probably right about the PEX and tarps running less than $2K, but I'm not sure where I would put the boiler and how I would route the circuits to the manifold. There's the venting for the boiler, the gas supply, etc... which all needs to be considered, even if I don't install it right away. The circuits all need to terminate to that location and I'm not sure where that would be. Electric radiant heat would require less planning, but the cost is more (around $4K when I checked about a year ago) and the cost to operate would most likely be more as well.

In all honesty, coming from where we've been when we had a driveway that was 8ft. wide, sandwiched between our house and the neighbors fence with little room to displace the snow, and a concrete driveway that had spalled so bad that some previous owner laid asphalt on half of the driveway (idiot), so the surface itself was cracked and breaking apart, I'm actually looking forward shoveling a smooth surface driveway with room to displace the snow. This was one of the compelling reasons for us to relocate our driveway to the opposite side of our property. While I can appreciate the luxury of heating your driveway so you don't have to shovel it, I'm not so sure I would be content sitting inside while I watch my neighbors slave on theirs. I would be compelled to suit up and give them a hand. So either way, I'd be shoveling someone's driveway.

[Russ Massery]

Same here Frank, I was going to paver the front patio. The quote for concrete was less then materials for the pavers. Anr they did all the work!.:rolleyes:

[Frank Snyder]

Art-

My driveway and house face South, but the driveway is still flanked by my house and my neighbors house, so it only gets direct sunlight in the AM. I'm no stranger to hard work, so shoveling will not be a problem for me. Again, I'll be happy just to be able to push the shovel along without any hang-ups and have lots of room to displace the snow.:p

[Art Mulder]

I'm not so sure I would be content sitting inside while I watch my neighbors slave on theirs. I would be compelled to suit up and give them a hand. So either way, I'd be shoveling someone's driveway.

:D:D:D Now that is the best answer yet. I think I'd feel the same way. There's a great sort of camaradarie out there on mornings after big storms when you're all out shovelling. Everyone knows they're going to be late for work, but no one cares. You're all shovelling, and giving each other a hand.

Besides, I have four kids, (3 sons), who need to learn discipline and the value of work. :cool:

[Mike Spanbauer]

Lol... I've 2 boys Art, and I've never lived in an environment until 3 years ago that I DIDN'T have to shovel or lend a hand when it snowed.

I may move back to Colorado when they turn 12 just to ensure they endure the *fun* :P

I'm w/ you by the way Frank, I usually lived in an area where there were 1 or more retiree's and often a widower who I always ensured that she didn't shovel. She would never ask, was always kind to neighbors, and would start shoveling by herself as soon as she could get outside. Being 20something at the time I lived there, I was able to complete my drive and 150' of walks (corner lot) and then complete hers before I left for work in the morning.

mike

[Frank Snyder]

IT'S DONE!!!!! The driveway, that is. My contractor stopped by yesterday afternoon and asked if I was ready for him. :eek: Duh? They got right to work, set up the forms, graded and compacted the existing gravel. This morning, they did the pour with 6-1/2 bag mix with fiber-mesh. By noon, they began excavating for the apron in the parkway. This took a little while, since it runs right up to a tree and the root system was pretty robust. Lots of time spent on the sawzall and axe. We had the city's arborist come out and inspect the roots once we excavated to make sure they would be okay. I'm told that Silver Maples can withstand some root damage and it should not be jeopardized by the excavating they did. By 3pm, they had the concrete poured for the apron. By 5pm they were done. I can't imagine how long it would've taken me to lay the pavers. Tomorrow, once it has cured a little longer, I'll spray a coat of sealer on it.

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I'm also hoping to get the siding painted this weekend...probably Sunday. I still have some more soffit work to finish up, then I can paint. Between my wife and I, we should be able to get it painted within a day. The trick is to have one person roll while the other one brushes over.

Our garage door is being delivered on Monday (finally). I hope to get my dad out here to have him give me a hand installing it (he's done a few). Plus, the delivery truck can't pull in the driveway (not supposed to drive on it for a week), so I'll need his help getting it from the street to the garage.

I'll post more pictures as we progress. I can't wait until it snows so I can shovel our new driveway :):):):):):):).

[Marty Walsh]

Frank,

Terrific job on the driveway. As you know, I loathe subbing out any part of my shop. But sometimes it just makes sense. It looks like this was "one of those times" for you.

Good luck with the garage door.

- Marty -

[Frank Snyder]

I'm with you, Marty. I've not been real happy with what few jobs I've contracted out since we've lived here. However, when it comes to concrete, these guys can do the job for less than what it would even cost me to do it.

I actually worked along side these guys today for two reasons. I was able to learn their floating and finishing techniques for future reference ;), and I think they did their best with me being out there working with them. The concrete contractor was one of the nicest contractors I've come across, and he's been doing concrete work for 30 years and he seems to enjoy his work. He had a 3 man crew with him and they really did do a nice job. They even kept the surface free of leaves falling from the two Maple trees in front. My only concern was that the concrete is still a bit soft at 8pm with the temperatures being cooler, which is good for the temperment of the concrete (slow cure), but bad for me if it gets defaced during the night. I guess I'll have to sleep out on my front porch with my scattergun tonight to scare off any would-be engravers.

[Bob Marino]

Frank,

This is incredible speed. The long, agonizig time it took for my masonary contractors to complete my project (driveway, front porch, backyard, planting beds, raised deck and 2 walkways) was well over 3 months. The no weekends, 2 men a day on my project, with the bosses really only serving as deliverymen made an 8 week job the job it became, with all the associated inconveniences to both myself and neighbors. Per was there at that time doin' my garage and can attest to the nonsense. Though a larger project than yours, I am amazed at the speed here. It shows what a good contractor can do, with the proper crew and supervision.

Bob

[Art Mulder]

IT'S DONE!!!!! The driveway, that is.
...
I can't wait until it snows so I can shovel our new driveway.

Great looking job, Frank! Great to see it in so quickly.

But it is a pretty long driveway. And you did save yourself $2000 on it. Sure you don't want to get yourself a nice snowblower now? You surely can get a nice one for less than two grand... :cool:;):cool:;)

[Frank Snyder]

Bob - If the weather would've cooperated, I'd probably be 2-3 weeks ahead where I'm at now, but there's absolutely nothing I could do about the torrential rains we've had.

Good contractors are far and few between. I've learned with concrete contractors that you need to work with their schedule, not vice versa. Fortunately for me, this guy had another job fall through so he was able to sneak me in. Otherwise, these guys seem to orbit around the larger paying jobs and give the smaller guys like me the cold shoulder.

Art - The driveway is 10ft wide x 72 feet deep.We'll see...I have to see what kind of space I have left in this garage after I move everything in. A snowblower may make things a bit tighter than I had planned. Heck, I own a push-reel mower...no gasoline powered equipment in my possession. :D

[Norman Hitt]

Looks Great. Isn't it nice when a plan comes together.......and Once in a Great While.......works out even better than planned.:D Besides the money savings, just look at how much further along your project accelerated in just ONE Day.;) :p

Back on Schedule and man are we "Rollin' now".:cool:

[Corey Hallagan]

That really looks nice Frank! Compliments the whole shop! Nice job.

Corey

[Frank Snyder]

Well, we've got paint and a door...Amy and I painted the siding on Sunday. I spread the paint out with a 7" roller while she back brushed it. The garage door was delivered this morning and my dad and I spent a few hours getting it installed. It's amazing how well it insulates the sound. I still need to pick out an opener for it.

I still have some caulking and painting to finish up on Tuesday, followed by gutters. I also need to get a trench dug for the electric and begin moving some earth and gravel around for the pavers. I hope to get pavers installed this weekend if the weather allows. Tick, tock...

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[Andy Hoyt]

An awesome accomplishment Frank. It looks fabulous!

[Joe Jensen]

Frank, your shop looks amazing. The craftsmanship is obvious, and I love how you matched the house. You should be very proud...joe

[Don Baer]

Frank,
Excellent work, The shop is something you'll enjoy for a long time.

[Roy Wall]

JUst before the the first cold front hits!!!!

Great work Frank!! That floor is going to feel Soooooooooo goood this winter:)

[randy street]

Frank,

Hope you havent left us.

Did you get the pavers installed?

Regards,

Randy

[Luther Oswalt]

Frank,
You have done a great job and the Shop / Garage door is just right ...
Leo

[Frank Snyder]

Sorry for the lack of recent updates. I haven't been able to finish the last few outdoor projects due to a screw-up with my paver supplier and the weather. I was waiting to have completed projects to photogragh before I posted again.

I took delivery of the pavers for the back patio on Friday. I ordered 3 different sized pavers for the pattern I wanted to use. I didn't realize at the time of delivery that they had given me too many of one size and not enough of the other. They bundled and strapped the different sized pavers together which discouraged me from taking an accurate count on the spot. Not until we were 4 courses into laying the pavers when my wife discovered that we didn't have enough of the standard size stone (short by about 300). And since the paver place was closed on Sundays, I had to wait until Monday to follow up with them. They came out Monday morning and figured out their mistake and quickly rectified it.

Also on Friday, I rented a jackhammer and removed the 50-year old sidewalk in the back of my house. They poured it about 8 inches thick (why?) which made removing it a lot more challenging. The worst was that the soil beneath the sidewalk was this mulchy-clay-like substance which needed to be removed. I had to dig out about a foot of this material before I hit solid clay. Now I had to fill this trench I made with gravel, but I only had about a cubic yard left and once compacted, I wouldn't have enough left for the rest of the patio, so I had to order another 2 cubic yards of CA-6 gravel and have it delivered. We also had to hunt down a plate compactor on Saturday since all of the rental places had rented theirs out. It wasn't until late Saturday when one came back and we were able to start compacting the gravel. Once we finished grading and compacting the base on Sunday, we began screeding out some sand and laying pavers, until we ran out of one of the three sizes.

I also had custom length gutters fabricated for me on Friday, and my wife and I began installing them on Sunday after we came to a screeching halt with the paver fiasco. Shortly after we began working on the gutters, it started to pour, which really discouraged us from finishing this project with what few hours of daylight we had left.

On Monday, I had a hauler stop by to pick up the concrete and dirt I pulled out from the sidewak. It rained on and off all day, and I spent a couple of hours relocating the 3 pallets of pavers from our parkway to the backyard. I'm hoping that the rain will subside today so I can get back to work on the patio. It shouldn't take me more than 6-8 hours to finish up. I still need to rent a paver saw and plate compactor one more time to complete this project. Unfortunately, the forecast calls for rain today, tomorrow and Thursday, so I may not be able to finish until Friday. It's a real mess out there, so I am tempted to wait until it dries up. I'll post more pictures once these projects are completed.

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[Andy Hoyt]

Welcome to the world of General Contracting, Frank.

Got any hair left?

[Art Mulder]

Frank, do you really want that downspout dumping out on your patio!?

[Frank Snyder]

Hey Art,

The downspout extends past the patio and the area it does flow into is graded away from the patio and towards the swail along the property line. I know that the downspout would wreak havoc if it ran directly onto the pavers by washing away the sand between the joints. It's hard to tell from that picture, plus the tarp extends past the patio boundry. The patio has a radius which you can't see from that picture. I was just trying to show what a mess I have for a back yard at the moment. ;)

[Frank Snyder]

Well...since Marty hasn't been updating his thread, I thought I might as well try to tide you guys over until he returns. We miss you Marty!:(

I've done a 180 on the electrical...originally, I had planned putting everything in conduit, but I've spent waaaay too much time scratching my head trying to figure out the best way to route the dozen or so conduit runs branching out from the sub-panel with the physical framing obstructions I've created. Plus, with steel prices going up and copper prices coming down (at least a little bit), I'd spend a small fortune on conduit, fittings, boxes and mudrings. Being able to pull Romex around these obstructions and thread them through the joists would certainly make life easier on me. I could also probably wire my garage in half the time it would take me to install conduit and pull wire. Our city allows the use of Romex, so I've decided to just go that route instead.

I dug an 8"+ trench leading from my house to the garage a few days back. I'm using RMC for this, so I don't have to go as deep if I were using PVC or USE. I need to pick up a few more fittings to finish the connection, then I can have the city inspector come out and inspect my trench.

The paver patio is basically done...I'm going to rent a paver saw and plate compactor tomorrow to finish it up. I just need to cut the radius, install the soldier perimeter, run the plate compactor over the patio a few times, then sweep some polymeric sand into the joints and it's finished. It's been cold and rainy all week, so I'm hoping tomorrow gives me a bit of a chance to catch up before more rain comes on Saturday. I've been feeling a bit under the weather as well this week, so I've not been overly motivated to work outside in the wet and cold. Once I finish the patio, I need to find a home for the extra cubic yard of torpedo sand I ordered (doh!). The paver place will take it back, but I would need to rent a truck to get it to them. Anybody need some free sand?

I spent most of today researching precedents for using a 100amp sub-panel fed from a 60amp breaker off of the main panel. I wasn't sure if this was permissible, but I was able to find some NEC quotes and real-life implementations of this, so I'm just waiting to hear back from the city inspector to give me the okay with this arrangement. The 100amp breaker on the sub-panel will act as the disconnect, and the 60amp branch is protected by the 60amp breaker on the main panel.

I was also trying to determine if my 5HP 20" planer needs a 40amp (8awg) or a 30amp (10awg) circuit. Having searched the archives on this site for similar setups, this seemed to be a real touchy subject. I don't want to reignite this debate, but I'm going to use the heavier gauge wire just in case since it's easier to address this now rather than later.

Lighting. I've also been reading past posts on this subject. Fluorescents (T8 bulbs) are the way to go, but should I add additional incandescent lighting (recessed or track) for workstations?

Hopefully, by next weekend, I will have grass in my yard again. Yeah! Walking our dogs in the mud is getting old. As is working in the mud.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions in advance. Hope this keeps everyone alive until Marty posts again.:p

[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, I have both T8's and some incandescent lighting in my shop. I have 4 surface mount spots that are on gimble type arms to be able to turn and twist, 2 for the drill press, 2 for the multi-station at the box bay window, then 6 recessed cans where the lights can be aimed "some", 2 above the TS, 2 above the BS, and 2 in the area my future router table and jointer will be (these two items will occupy the same area, moving in and out of position as needed). I wanted every piece of power equipment with a spinning cutting device to have something other that flourescent lighting. I've heard, don't know for sure that it is true, that the flicker of flourescents can make a spinning blade look like it is standing still, a strobe effect of sorts. Didn't want to take a chance.

I was lucky in that about the time I started my rehab, the closest HD moved their store. I got all of these light fixtures, and a couple others, at 75% off the marked price. Also got a partial wooden reel of 10/3 w/ground wire for my 220 runs. It came out to about 29 cents a foot!

I also found a good source on line for lighting. Let me know if you're interested, I'll have to try to find the company again. Lost all my bookmarks when I changed out my computer OS last month. Bought all my T-8 bulbs from them. Got the fixtures at HD. Built my own reflectors so that the flourscent lights are recessed into the ceiling joists. Hope this gives you some ideas to mull over. I'm anxious to see how your patio turns out! Jim.

[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, I had some down time here at work today, and searched and found the on-line distributor I found for the light bulbs. It's businesslights(dot)com. I ordered a case of 25 of the CR 86, 5000k (IIRC) bulbs. They are BRIGHT! I'll actually need more than 25 eventually, but this will get most of them. The bulbs are made in Germany. I believe you can order in cases of 25, or in quantities of 6. Probably can get prices on singles, but it would be cost prohibitive, unless you needed one or two more than the case quantity. They were well boxed (double boxed with packing material, again IIRC) Not a single bulb broken. Hope this gives you some alternatives. Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the link, Jim. I'll check them out.

I finished the patio today. It was dark by the time I finished, so no pics:(. I rented a paver saw which was basically a tile saw on steriods. It worked beautifully. The plate compactor, on the other hand, was not in working order, so I wasn't able to "lock-in" the pavers as much as I would've liked, but it'll be fine as is. I'm sooooo happy we went with a concrete driveway. My body, expecially my hands, have suffered enough on this patio, and I don't think I would've survived another 800 sq. ft. for the driveway. Now I just need to haul out this extra cubic yard of sand and I can begin prepping for sod.

We're supposed to get more rain Saturday and Sunday, so I'm not sure if I'll have too much to update until next week. I did pick up some rolls of 12/2, 10/2 and 8/2 Romex this evening, so I might start the electrical if I can't work outside. Can anyone explain to me the different 220 outlets? My local HD has the appliance outlets of 30 & 40 amp flavors, but they also have the smaller twist-lock style in 20 & 30 amp flavors. Do I want to use one over the other? I need 20, 30 and 40 amp 220v outlets.

[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, I have some of both. The receptacle for the welder is a dryer type outlet. As is the one for the PTAC air conditioner, if and when I get it. I still need a cutoff for the future air compressor, but will use a disconnect there. All of my tool 220v hookups are of the twistlock variety. Well, maybe one on the wall isn't, can't remember. :confused: All of the ceiling ones are, though, and that's 4 twistlock 220's, and 4 110's. Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Okay...since it's not raining, I thought I'd post a few pictures of the finished patio.

I spent all day Saturday hauling 5000 pounds of sand back to the paver supplier. I was hoping to get it all in one trip, but the 3000 pound limit alarm went off on the truck I rented, so I had to off load a bunch of sand and make another trip. I truly paid in earnest for that calculation mistake by ordering too much sand (though I still believe they gave me waaaay more than 2 cubic yards). At least it's gone and I don't have to worry about it anymore. Now I'm strong like bull...

Today, I worked on finishing the RMC conduit run from the house to the garage. I just need 2 threaded couplers and it's finished. I also spent an hour pounding an 8ft. ground rod into the earth for the garage. Not an easy task to say the least.

I'm going to try and get the sod layed this week. My wife wants me to put down some pea gravel or river stone behind the garage to use as a dog run for our Basset Hounds. This means I have to dig up and haul out 2 cubic yards of earth and haul in 2 cubic yards of stone. It makes sense to do this before the sod is down, so I may be doing this first.

I should have the power hooked up to the panel this week, which will be good since I really need some heat out there in this 40 degree weather we're having. I'll post some pictures of the electrical once I've finished.

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[Jim O'Dell]

Very nice, Frank! Looks like it could have always been there. Very classy. Jim.

[randy street]

Lookin good Frank. Sounds like your wife is keeping you busy.

I bet it feels good to have that driveway and patio completed, especially with all that rain.

Regards

Randy

[Jim Becker]

That really turned out great, Frank! Whoah...that's a LOT of work you got done there! (And too bad about the sand...sheesh! You're going to need new shirts to hold all those muscles...)

[Art Mulder]

Looking good, Frank. Looks like you've got maybe a postage-stamp sized bit of yard left over.

In that 2nd photo, is that a natural gas BBQ hookup in that white boxed-in thing? On the right side of the patio?

[Jerry Olexa]

Great work, Frank....Lots of work but very satisfying...Looks good

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks, guys, for the compliments. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm sooo glad I didn't do the paver driveway.

Art - Man, you've got good eyes. But they're not natural gas hookups. There's a GFI outlet there and hot and cold water spigots. I put those in a few years back to wash the car with hot water and to have electricity for my old workshop. Prior to that outlet, it was an extension cord out the window. But now that we've moved our driveway, I'll need to relocate them so that they're closer to the new driveway. Natural gas connects would be a great thing to have there, but my wife prefers charcoal over gas for whatever reason, so I doubt I could convince her to cross over. Great idea, nonetheless...

[Brett Baldwin]

Well I'm sorry I'm late to the show but it has been great seeing what you've done in a few short months. The everything looks great and I'm sure you'll enjoy that great space as you take it easy building your new suite of house furniture or whatever small project you're going to tackle next. Great job Frank.

[Frank Snyder]

The exterior work is just about finished. Over the weekend, my wife and I dug out 6" of dirt for the dog run behind the garage and filled it with 2 cubic yards of pea gravel. Consider this "lawn insurance". The dogs seem to get the idea...

Monday morning, I tilled the dirt again and smoothed out the high and low spots. The sod was delivered in the afternoon and I quickly went to work rolling out 2400 square feet of it. I was working well past dark so I had to set up my work lights outside so I could see what I was doing. This morning I rented a yard roller and went over the sod a few times, followed with plenting of watering. There's no rain in the forecast until the weekend, so I'll need to stay on top of the watering schedule until then. How suspicious that it rains when I don't need it and doesn't when I do :confused:. It's not much of a yard, but having lived with mud for the past four months, it's a welcomed improvement.

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The rest of the week will be spent wrapping up the electrical, and I hope to start insulating and drywalling late next week (provided that I pass my framing & electrical inspections).

I should be ready to move my equipment in by the third week of November. I'm open to any suggestions of how best to "lift" these heavy machines (300-800 lbs) off of their pallets and onto the floor. Here's what I have to uncrate...(stealth gloat :cool: )

PM2000 table saw
PJ882 Jointer
PM209 Planer
PM720HD Hollow Chisel Mortiser
Laguna LT16HD Bandsaw

I've also got a Oneida 2HP Super Gorilla, a Jessem router table and I need to pick up a new drill press (PM2800 maybe?). I should be fully operation by Thanksgiving (fingers crossed).

[Jim Becker]

Oh, Frank...how can we even think about complimenting you on the VERY nice grass when you drop that list of new toys on us??? :D :D :D

[Jerry Olexa]

Frank, looking VERY good. I'm green as your grass w envy. You'll enjoy your new shop...

[Mike Spanbauer]

Looking very good Frank. Your shop is around the size that I envision myself in about 2 years. Very nice, and a very nice set of electron burners too.

Mike

[Art Mulder]

I'm with Jim. That is quite the list of "toyls" -- as Tyler would say.

And I note that back on page one of this thread you give a projected floorplan of this shop. Are you seriously planning on parking a car in your shop? I can't imagine you wanting a salty-dripping car anywhere near a PM2000 saw or the other items on that list.

I'm also doubting it'll fit either...

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the compliments, guys. I am very much looking forward to getting back to woodworking, as this remodeling/home improvement work is wearing me out.

Jim - I know how much this group loves new toys. I'll make sure to document their arrival with lots of pictures.

Jerry - The best part of laying sod this time of the year is that I won't have to mow it until Spring :D.

Mike - For a one man shop, I think that 600 square feet is liveable. We'll find out pretty quick here ;). I like "electron burners"...

Art - It'll fit. If I need the space for a project, I'll just pull it out of the garage. My wife pretty set on parking her car in our new garage. We were never able to do this with our old garage since it was structurally unsound. If the snow and salt are really bad, I'll have her leave it in the driveway and I'll just have to clean off the snow for her before she goes to work the next morning. I should also get one of those parking mats to protect the floor from the salt. She's always wanted a Mini, so maybe now might be the right time...

Please let me know what the best methods are for lifting these machines off of their pallets. I'll need to have this figured out in a few weeks time. I've seen the PM2000 rolled off of its pallet using its built-in casters, but the rest of my tools can't do this.

[Art Mulder]

My wife pretty set on parking her car in our new garage. ... She's always wanted a Mini, so maybe now might be the right time...

If you lived on this side of the border, I'd suggest a car even smaller than the mini... 49381

(8.25 ft long...)

[Frank Snyder]

Art - LOL! You kill me. I bet that thing gets great mileage. Or do you have to pedal?

Better yet...I could send her to work on one of these...
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[Andy Hoyt]

Yer both wrong. Ya need one of these (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e318/AndyHoyt944/TwoWheeledCar.gif).

[Art Mulder]

Art - LOL! You kill me. I bet that thing gets great mileage. Or do you have to pedal?

Better yet...I could send her to work on one of these...


:eek: :eek: Boy that is scary. Of course, I have a hard time staying up on my rollerblades just by myself, I shudder to think how quickly I would fall with that setup!

Oh, and the SMART does not need pedaling, nor are there hamsters in back spinning a wheel. It's got a 3cyl dieself engine in the back -- the diesel is why it isn't in the USA, as far as I know -- and claim a fuel economy of 4.2 liters per 100km. And I googled to find a converter which tells me that equals 56 MPG in the US (US Gallons). That's Toyota Prius territory without the expense of battery replacement - but also without the cargo space.

And you think it looks small... just wait till you meet one in traffic.

Now, ahem, getting back on topic. :rolleyes: A Smart car is so small that you can fit TWO of them sideways in ONE normal-car-sized parking spot, which means you'd have even more room in your gara- ahem, SHOP for tools and projects. :p

[Art Mulder]

Yer both wrong. Ya need one of these (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e318/AndyHoyt944/TwoWheeledCar.gif).

There's a moxie joke in there somewhere, I'm sure of it.

[Frank Snyder]

I just wanted to thank Norman Hitt for his tip on fixing my dripedge overlap problem. I drilled a hole through both dripedges and into the barge rafter, then inserted an aluminum rivet, held it tight against the surface while expanding the rivet, and presto, the dripedge lays nice and flat against the barge rafter. THANK YOU NORMAN!!!!

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I still have another day or two to finish the electrical, then I can schedule my inspection. I should be ready for drywall by the weekend. More pictures to come...

[Jim Becker]

Frank, I really like that little detail on the end of the bracket! Nice!

[Dave Shively]

Frank,

The end is near and I am happy for you. I can't wait to see pictures with all you new tools in their place. You will show us won't you?

Dave

[Norman Hitt]

I just wanted to thank Norman Hitt for his tip on fixing my dripedge overlap problem. I drilled a hole through both dripedges and into the barge rafter, then inserted an aluminum rivet, held it tight against the surface while expanding the rivet, and presto, the dripedge lays nice and flat against the barge rafter. THANK YOU NORMAN!!!!

49587

I still have another day or two to finish the electrical, then I can schedule my inspection. I should be ready for drywall by the weekend. More pictures to come...

Hey Frank, glad to hear it worked for you. (I like simple fixes that don't require much work):D Sometime later when you get your shop up and running, I want to pick your brain on the size of the flat pullys and belt on your new PM2000. I'm curious as to whether I might be able to upgrade/convert my PM66 with that system by using those parts from Powermatic, as I want to change out my old belts in a few months, and it would be a great time make the changeover if it will work.

[Frank Snyder]

Norman,

Thanks again for the fix. I'll be happy to give you any information pertaining to the belts and pulleys of the PM2K once I've uncrated it. I recall reading about a member at another woodworking website who was going to try retro-fitting the PM2K dust shroud for his PM66, but last I checked he hadn't updated his thread since March, so I'm not sure if he was successful or not.

I have my framing & electrical inspection on Friday, then I can insulate and start hanging drywall. I should be ready to bring in the "electron burners" by next weekend. I'll post some pictures of the electrical before the drywall goes up...I just want to clean out the garage before I take any pictures ;).

I'm still "all ears" as to how I should go about moving the equipment off of their pallets. Should I rent an engine hoist? I've also seen a few clever chaps build a 2x4 frame around the item and lift it off of its pallet using Bessey clamps. Hmmm...

[Mike Spanbauer]

Norman,

I'd give PM a call and chat w/ their techs. I've never worked with a company that has more knowledgeable guys about their equipment than the old PM techs. The guys (2 different ones) I've spoken with seem to have worked at the company for many years and knew my tools forwards and backwards. I suspect they could offer advice in addition to any gotchas pretty quickly. They are very down to earth to chat with.

In fact... I am overdue for my bearings / belt replacement too. Perhaps that's a call I'll make later today.

That shop is looking very nice Frank, the detail that you're doing on the outside is very nice. My wife approves :) Lol. Of course, doesn't help that I've no room even today even if she were to say sure to a shop.

mike

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the compliments, Mike. I've had complete strangers walk up to me while I've been working on the garage and tell me how much they like it. Mostly women, believe it or not. I've even had two different builders stop by and offer me jobs to work for them. One of them builds high-end, historic-looking homes. But I honestly don't think I'm cut out for doing the exterior sort of work full-time. It's seriously hard labor and I like working in climate-controlled workshops too much ;). I'll stick with kitchens, cabinets, doors and furniture.

I hope that you get to create your own workspace one day. I started woodworking about ten years ago and I'm just now getting the workspace I've longed for. Until now, I've either had to work outdoors, in other woodworker's shops, or "on-site". A larger shop would've been nice, but I live within city limits and this is as big of a garage the city would let me build. If I ever decide that this space isn't working and I need something larger, AND if I'm doing this successfully full-time, then I will consider leasing a larger space with larger equipment. But until then, I think that it'll work out just fine :D.

[Mike Spanbauer]

With luck that time will come in a couple years Frank. As long as the economy doesn't tank I'll be building by '09 and on that property will go a dedicate wood shop :) (as well as a separate auto garage).

Looking sharp. I'm sure the days are growing a bit colder now, how long a punch list remains on the outside? .... ouch, just looked up your forecast. 49,41,45,45 with clouds and showers on Fri and Mon. G'luck.

mike

[Frank Snyder]

The exterior stuff is done. What work I have left is indoors.

The punch list is getting shorter...

1.) Pass inspection (tomorrow)
2.) Insulate (1 day)
3.) Hang Drywall (1 day)
4.) Tape and finish drywall (3 days)
5.) Paint (1 day)
6.) Case out doors and windows (1/2 day)
7.) Wire outlets and switches (1/4 day)
8.) Install fluorescent lighting (1/4 day)
9.) Install boiler for radiant heat (1 day)
10.) Move in equipment (1 day)
11.) Set up and calibrate equipment (several days)
12.) Install ductwork (1 day)
13.) Start woodworking again :)

[Frank Snyder]

Framing and electrical inspection passed with flying colors. Now I just need to bring in the insulation and drywall, hopefully this weekend if I rent a truck and pick it up myself. Otherwise I'll have to wait until next week to have it delivered.

I snapped a few pictures of the electrical...I've never worked with Romex before...it just seems messier than using conduit. I have a total of 13 circuits on the 60 amp branch circuit. The bonding bar between the neutral and the ground bus is removed, and I have a ground wire to the main panel and one to my ground rod at the garage. All framing penetrations are fire caulked and I used nail plates where applicable.

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I honestly can't believe I'll be ready to set up my tools by next weekend :D. I just have to survive the drywall taping and sanding (yuck!).

[Jim Becker]

(And he sneaks in some shots of the interior...)

Congratulations on this milestone!! 'Won't be long now...

[Corey Hallagan]

It looks great Frank. Can't wait to see it with all that new machinery!

Corey

[Mark Ebert]

That punch list is sure getting smaller, and by the looks of it you will be back to putting those WW tools to use before Thanksgiving!

Your lucky that you can still run romex up there. Down in Plainfield (~25 miles South of you) our codes are such that conduit is mandated, and even though it looks nicer and is easier to fish additional wires though when hidden behind a wall, its still a pain in the you know what to run.

-Mark

[Russ Massery]

I was thinking the same thing. I didnt' think you could use Romex anywhere in Illinois. Indiana just outlaw the use of it few years ago.

[Frank Snyder]

Most of the counties surrounding Chicago prohibit the use of Romex. It seems that the counties farther away from Chicago allow it. Plainfield is Will county? I did not know that they, too, prohibited Romex. I rewired my entire house using conduit, but I could've just as well used Romex. Either was an improvement of the cloth knob-and-tube wiring I had. I gutted my house so it wasn't a big deal to use conduit while the walls were open.

This was my first exposure with using Romex. Installation seemed faster and Romex certainly can handle the tight radiuses and snaking around obstacles. It does seem more vulnerable to damage but hopefully the vinyl sheathing will stay intact longer than I will ;).

I'll pick up the insulation today and possibly the drywall for the ceiling. I can't get all of the drywall in one trip, which is probably best since I don't want to be triping over materials while I'm hanging the drywall on the ceiling. Once the ceiling is done, I'll go get the drywall for the walls, probably tomorrow. By next weekend, I should have some "gloat" worthy pictures to post :D.

[Jim O'Dell]

Drywall, or any wall covering, is really a defining moment, just like getting the outside sheathing on. Good luck! Do you have help with the drywall? or did you rent a dry wall jack? Two people can do it pretty easily if you build a deadman, especially if the second person is the LOYL. Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Jim - I've hung drywall on a ceiling once without the use of a lift. The first time I tried the lift, I was convinced that this was the ONLY way to hang a ceiling. Our local Borg rents them out for ~$50 a day. I'm using 5/8" drywall (though not required by the city for a detached structure) which is a bear to hang without a lift. I'm hoping that the 5/8" will hold up better if it gets damaged and also help keep any noise I make from irritating the neighbors. I did find an abuse-resistant drywall product which they use in schools, but it is really pricey. I can always install MDF paneling over the drywall if I find myself beating up the walls.

Has anyone here painted their walls any color other than white? I know white makes the most sense, but I was considering a light grey or something that might keep the white walls from looking dirty over time. I'm waaaay off on this one, right?

[Jim O'Dell]

Yeah, your way off......they're going to get dirty no matter what color you paint them!!:D :D Seriously, something like the Kilz primer might be good. It's a very light grey. Enough so that painting white as a topcoat on it, you can see where you haven't painted. And it would seal off the paper and mud better than regular paint.
The special school material you mentioned, is that Homosote? I looked ito that too, and yes it is pricy. You can even get it with a finish already applied, usually a cloth looking texture. There are some other similar items available too, but again, out of my price range. They are supposed to be better at sound deadoning, and add a little R-value to the wall too. But it won't happen in my shop!
Glad you're using the drywall lift. It's bad enough having to look up all day!! Jim

[Art Mulder]

Has anyone here painted their walls any color other than white? I know white makes the most sense, but I was considering a light grey or something that might keep the white walls from looking dirty over time. I'm waaaay off on this one, right?
Well, I haven't even painted my walls at all... They're still bare concrete. (basement)

However, if you go over to the Fine Woodworking (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/) website, find the section titled "blogs" and click on "The Smart Shop". You'll see a long blog of Matthew Teague building a detached shop, and in one of the latest posts he is putting up the walls. He put MDF along the bottom 4ft, for strength, and he's painting it dark red. :eek:
There are no photos of the finished product, but it actually looks kind of sharp in the one photo they have. When you think about it, a large part of your lower walls (4ft and lower) are going to be blocked by benches and tools anyways. So if you want to paint them a different colour, why not!? The ceiling should be white (IMHO) to give you good reflection of your light, and I'd keep the upper half of the walls a light colour at least, and probably white.

...art
(ps: our TOS prohibit linking to forums, and I wasn't sure if you'd call a blog a forum or not. In any case, it is easy to find by following my directions).

[Rich Stevens]

Hi Frank,

Congrats on passing inspection - seriously though, was there any doubt about your garage failing the inspection?

Reminds me of a story my best buddy shared with me years ago when he was living his parents in New Zealand.

His dad, like most of us here, was a bit of a handy man, actually truth be known, he was a perfectionist - harldly surprising as he was a tool maker by profession.

Anyhow, my friend and his dad had been working on an an upper story addition to their home and did all the work themselves - including plumbing and electrical work. I am not sure what the regulations call for in the States however in Australia and New Zealand, anything to do with either requires a qualified licensed tradesman to undertake the work or it won't pass inspection.

Neither my friend nor his dad were licensed to do either but they knew guys who were licensed - so just prior to the inspection, they had these guys do a quick once over to make sure everything was OK.

During the inspection, my friend noticed the inspector was overly attentive with the inspection and asked a lot of questions. Anyhow at the end of the inspection he remarked that the job wasn't done by a licensed electrician. Fearing the worse, he asked the inspection why he thought so, and what he needed to do fix it. "Fix it?" the inspector retorted. He then said that there was no tradesman in New Zealand that would do a job like this - it was that neat and perfectly done! He also said "next time, try not to be so perfect - its a dead give away!"

I laugh everytime I think of this story.

Rich
Melb Australia

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the anecdote, Rich. :p There's something to be said about "if you want something done right...". I was also told by another contractor that you should always leave something small and obvious for the inspector to find wrong. Otherwise, they will continue to scrutinize until they DO find something wrong.

I spent most of Saturday transporting the insulation and drywall by myself. The weight alarm went off on the rental truck at the Borg for the load of drywall (3K lbs. +), but you can overide it by starting the engine, putting it in drive and engaging the parking brake until you're ready to leave. My wife and I began insulating the walls late Saturday, and I finished them off this morning. I ended up going with R-30 insulation for the ceiling instead of R-38...I didn't realize the serious cost hike for that extra R-8 value. It almost doubled the price!

I spent today tacking the 4 foot batts up into the ceiling joists until I whacked my index finger with my staple hammer. It stung like the Beegees but I was wearing work gloves so I didn't see any damage until I started leaving bloody finger marks on the insulation. I pulled off the glove and my index finger was gushing blood pretty good. The glove was soaked through (yuck!). On that note, I called it a day and went and saw the wife for some medical treatment. Fortunately, it wasn't anything too serious. I just punctured the tip right along my fingernail. Some pressure, ice and a band-aid did the trick to stop the bleeding. I just have a few more bays to finish in the morning and then I can start hanging drywall on the ceiling. I'm hoping to have all of the drywall hung by the end of tomorrow. I'll post some pictures tomorrow as well.

[Frank Snyder]

Sorry for the lack of updates and pictures. The insulating and drywalling have taken me a bit longer than planned. I finally finished hanging the drywall last Thursday and I spent the whole weekend taping, mudding and sanding 3 coats. Since I don't have the boiler hooked up yet, there's no heat, so it has been taking longer for the joint compound to dry completely. I just have a little more sanding to do tomorrow then I can start painting. I absolutely despise this part of the project (drywalling) and I'd glady hire it out if I could afford it. I'd like to get the boiler up and running as soon as I finish painting...we'll see. We're supposed to get some 50 degree weather over the next few days which will be nice.

With this being a holiday week, I probably won't be bringing in the equipment until Friday. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to transport 3000 lbs. of equipment from my parent's garage to my garage (25 mile drive). The height of the bandsaw is a problem with box trucks...the bandsaw is almost 7 feet tall and most box truck door openings are just over 6 feet. Most of the 6x12 trailers I've seen max out out 2600 lbs., so I'm still tring to find a trailer which can handle the weight. Otherwise, I'm looking at 2 trips. I'm not sure if a car trailer might work or not. Any ideas?

Pictures to come soon...I promise ;).

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Any 16' trailer or car hauler will do the job for you, but finding one to rent will be hard to do. Any chance the bandsaw could be carried horizontally? If so any rental moving truck larger than 12' could handle it.

PS...I hate drywalling too!

[Frank Snyder]

It about time for a real update.

I finished sanding and painting the walls on Thursday. I used an eggshell enamel paint which should clean up better than a flat latex would. I also installed half of the fluorescent lighting (HD Lithonia 4xT-8's). One or more of them seem to be illiciting an annoying "buzzing" sound which has increased in volume since I installed them. Is this normal or do I have a bad ballast or something?

On Friday, my father and I picked up a friend's 8x20 car trailer (14K lbs. capacity) and we loaded it up with the equipment which my father had been storing for me for some time in his garage. It took us about an hour and a half to load the trailer. The trailer was about 16" up off of the ground and it had 2 tire ramps. We straddled the tire ramps with a 4x8 3/4" sheet of plywood and used a pallet jack to manuever the crate to the ramp. We then used a one ton come-along attached to the pallet jack to pull the crate up the ramp and onto the bed. We couldn't pull the jointer all the way onto the bed since it couldn't fit past the wheel wells of the trailer, so it had to go on last and ride on the very end of the trailer. It also took us a little while to figure out the best way to secure the crates once they were loaded. The bandsaw presented the biggest challenge because of its height, but I think we did okay. Nothing fell off on the 25 mile ride home. Unloading proved to be even easier, and between my dad, my wife and myself we had everything off the trailer in about 20 minutes.

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[Frank Snyder]

Uncrating the electron burners was a bit like x-mas :D. Lots of little tiny nails to contend with. Everything was in prestine condition and slathered in cosmoline. I look forward to cleaning them up and immediately waxing any unprotected surface. I got a little carried away with the bandsaw and I put the whole thing togther, blade and all. I can't wait to fire this thing up...I've got big plans for this one ;).

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I still have my 600 lbs. hollow chisel mortiser out on my porch which I need to move down a set of stairs. It took 4 of us to get it up the stairs on an appliance dolly, one of the guys being a defense lineman for the Indiana Colts (my neighbor). Even he said this thing was heavy. I will definitely need to recruit some strongmen for this move.

Today I need to begin installing the tankless boiler for the radiant heat. This one seems like a real time killer with all of the components which need to be installed. I'll update this thread once I'm finished.

[Jim O'Dell]

Oh, man. You're gettin' close!! Looks real good, Frank. Now if you had just painted the walls green, you'd have my alma mater's colors! (Not enough green with one band saw!!:D ) Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Awesome, Frank! 'Lotta gold in them there square feet! Congrats on the first move in day!

[John Miliunas]

Holy cow, Frank! You done struck gold out there! (OK, "baby poop yellow", but still....:D ). All your hard work is definitely paying off. Can't wait to see the whole thing setup and in working order! Now, just don't get too antsy about firing stuff up. Take your time in tuning them in and tweaking them all proper. That's some HD equipment you have there and, if you take the time to start with, you'll be trouble-free for a long time to come! Lookin' good!!! :) :cool:

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks, guys, for the kind words. I'll take the time to set them up properly before I start putting them to work. I'm going to wait until the DC is hooked up before I make any dust. I started working on the boiler yesterday, but I need to figure out how to mount the vent's ring cap flush against the siding. I might need to make a block with the inverse siding profile cut into its backside so that the vent ring lies flush.

Jim O'Dell - I'm glad to read that you finally have power to your shop. Which college has green and gold?

[Frank Snyder]

After 3 days of fussing with this Euro-style boiler, I can finally declare it a success. The boiler has a built-in pump and expansion tank, and it is a sealed combustion direct-vent unit. Getting all the coordinates in sync for the vent, gas. manifold and PEX lines took me some time, but I think I did okay.


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Firey goodness...

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The trim ring for the vent was wider than my siding exposure, but I was able to tuck the top part underneath the siding course above it. The boiler gets HOT really fast and the insulation on the pipes is really to keep someone from getting burned (plus it adds some efficiency). The room temperature has already kicked up a few degrees after 20 minutes or so. I'm waiting to see how long it takes to get to 70 degrees. Now that this is out of the way, I can focus on finishing all of the other little details, then I can begin setting up the toys.

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[Jim O'Dell]

snip
Jim O'Dell - I'm glad to read that you finally have power to your shop. Which college has green and gold?[/QUOTE]


Baylor University, Sic 'Em Bears! I don't do that often, honest. Jim.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Looking dang fine Frank! That is a sweet little boiler and I'm certain that your garage will be a welcome escape from the house in the winter... which is saying something there in Northern Ill. :)

Awesome work, and love the yellow decorating

Mike

[Frank Snyder]

I apparently timed the completion of the boiler just in time for this fridgid weather we've been having out here. I can't describe just how comfortable it is to be in a 75 degree workshop when it's 8 degrees outside. It is really just amazing how well radiant in-slab heat works...the boiler cycles on and off for less than a minute only a few times per hour. It'll be interesting to see just how much (or little) it costs to run once I get our next gas bill. I need to make an insulating cap for my pull-down attic stairs. After the snow we got, there's a little bald snow-free spot on the roof just above where the stairs are.

Since my last post, I spent the next few days cleaning the joint compound and paint droppings off of the concrete floor. Once cleaned, I applied some liquid floor wax and polished the floor with a floor buffer. I had mixed feelings about waxing the concrete...on one hand it really protects the concrete from water, spills, and makes cleaning the floor a real breeze. On the other hand, it can be slick when there's sawdust on the floor. You can also slide heavy equipment across it pretty easily without a mobile base. This can be good and bad. I'll have a solution if this becomes a problem down the road.

I was able to off-load all of my equipment from their respective pallets without the use of a hoist or a team of Hungarian strongmen. My wife and I were able to walk the bandsaw over the edge of its pallet, tip it back until it touched the floor, then my wife pulled the the pallet out from the bandsaw while I set it back down. Same procedure they show on Laguna's setup DVD. Worked fine.

The table saw, with its integrated castors, was also easier to off-load than I predicted. I simply attached a scrap 3 ft. x 4 ft. 3/4" piece of plywood to act as a ramp, unbolted the saw from its pallet, lowered the casters, then carefully I rolled the saw off of the pallet, down the ramp and onto the floor. Worked like a charm.

I thought for sure I would need to rent a hoist for the jointer and the planer, but I was determined to try something else without spending another dime. The pallet for the jointer was over 7ft. long and had several 4x4 blocks underneath. The first thing I did was unbolt the jointer from the plywood pallet and remove all of the cleats holding it in place. Using a pallet jack I borrowed from my dad, I then lifted the jointer up as far as the jack would go, then I began removing the 4x4 blocks underneath to one side only so that when I lowered it down, it would become a ramp for the jointer to slide down. This technique worked as described, until I caught a cleat which they (Powermatic) mounted on the inside of the base. This required me to lift the jointer up from one end to clear the cleat, then I was able to slide it off of the pallet and onto the floor. 700 lbs. all by myself :p.

Fortunately, the planer had integrated castors on its base, so again like the table saw, I was able to fashion a plywood ramp and attach it to the pallet. Removing all of the cleats required me to open up the base panel and surgically remove them from the inside. Once those were removed and the planer was unbolted from the pallet, it rolled right off onto the ramp and onto the floor. No casualties or damage during the process. Another 800 lbs. all by myself :D.

Now the 600 lbs. hollow chisel mortiser parked out on my porch was not looking as easy to move. It required a trip down a flight of stairs, and having fond memories of injuring my back pulling it up the stairs with 3 other guys, I was not inclined to do the same again. So instead, I uncrated it on the porch and disassembled the entire thing, carried it piece by piece down the stairs and into my garage, then rebuilt it piece by piece in the garage. It turned out that this unit saw some serious moisture and the cosmoline was sparringly applied. There was quite a bit of rust and corrosion to clean off. I was then able to lube the bolts, wax all unprotected cast iron surfaces, then rebuild it to look like new...wait...it was new, wasn't it? Anyway, it took me a day to do this and I didn't injure my back again so I was happy.

The last piece to uncrate was the Super Dust Gorilla. I've heard that this thing can be heavy to install, but I thought I could manage by myself. I decided to install it 13" higher so I could clear the outlets on the wall and use a 55-gallon drum instead of the 35-gallon. Since I had 9 foot ceilings, this seemed like the best use of space. Oneida lists 3 different methods for assembling and mounting the Gorilla. I went with method 3 at first, assembling the cone, barrel, and fan enclosure sans motor. I was able to upright the unit, but I could not lift it up onto the braket no matter how hard I tried. Fortunately, my neighbor across the street was home and I was able to recruit his help getting the beast on the wall. After he left, I went to install the last piece, the motor and impeller, and at the moment when I'm at the top of the ladder struggling to lift this 70 lbs. piece into place that I discover that I'm short about an inch of vertical clearance. I didn't take the impeller height into consideration when I measured since it goes inside the fan enclosure. DOH! So back down the ladder I go in defeat. I decided to recruit another friend to help me get the Gorilla down, install the motor, then lift it back up onto its bracket (bear in mind that the bracket is about 6 feet up). Unfortunately, between my friend and myself we could not lift this thing up together and get it on its bracket. So over to my neighbor across the street I go in embarassment to see if he will help us do what he already help me do earlier in the day. I explained in detail why this was necessary and he agreed to lend a hand one more time. Between the three of us, we were able to get this monster on its bracket and securely mounted.

I ordered a bunch of wye's and other fittings from Oneida and I should have them early next week so I can finish the dust collection. I'm taking my time to setup and calibrate all of the tools carefully. I invested in a TS Aligner Jr. which I'm using on the tablesaw today to dial it in (literally). I also picked up some self-cleaning blast gates and work lights from Lee Valley. These work lights are fantastic...they have aluminum heat sinks inside so you don't burn your hand when you need to adjust them. The magnetic base works great, too.

Having only used underpowered contractor style or hobbiest level woodworking equipment in my past, I have to convey my surprise of just how impressive these 2, 3 and 5HP machines are when you fire them up. You just don't hear them...you feel them. All I can say is "WOW!". Hearing protection is now mandatory. I just hope my neighbors don't need hearing protection as well ;). I'll follow up next week once the ductwork is in place and include lots of pictures. For the time being, I took these, but please excuse the clutter...

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[John Miliunas]

Frank, awesome progress! Man, you sure do have a lot of "gold" in that thar shop of yours! :) Amazing how much a guy can do by himself when one applies a bit of logic (and physics) to a problem. I unloaded and assembled my DJ-20 from the back of my trailer by my lonesome a couple years ago. Judicious use of ramping and leverage can go a real long way! :D Looks to me like you'll be in business real soon! The DC system will most definitely consume some time but, once done, if you've planned well, very little will be left to do later down the road. Just be sure to provide now for a clean-out or two and provisions for possible tool additions later on. (For instance, finish a run off with a wye and just cap it off.) Lookin' good there! :) :cool:

[Don Bullock]

Fantastic project. It is coming along very quickly. I'm very impressed with your work. You have every right to be proud of it.

Question: What software did you use for the design, especially the interior plan?

[Art Mulder]

Looks good Frank. The only question I have is the placement of the DC. Good thing you hoisted it high, because even as it is now, it looks like you're going to be partially blocking that window with the main line. :(

So can we expect the next thread to be "Franks new workbench" ?? Looks like you need some benches and cabinetry to go in there.
...art

[Frank Snyder]

John - I think the Egyptians beat us hands down on using levers and gravity in their favor. I 've even seen some pictures of woodworkers rolling their equipment around on dowels. Simple solutions for complicated problems...gotta love 'em.

I like your suggestion for adding wye's and capping them for future use. I didn't think of this when I ordered my fittings, though. I think they also have saddle wye's which you can just cut a hole into the trunk and attach at any point. There seems to be a LOT of science to the whole ductwork thing...I'm not sure that mine will be a shining example of this, but I'll do my best. I'm assuming that clean-outs should go at the end of trunk and branch runs, as you'd have with DWV pipes?

Don - Thanks for the nice comments. I actually used 3 different programs for the whole project. For the asthetic architectural piece, I used Punch Software's Professional Home Design (old version) which I had used to remodel our house 4 years ago. I used this just to see how the house and garage would look together. Since I already had the house drawn, it was less work to start here. For the framing and technical stuff, I used AutoCAD R14. For the tool layout and interior stuff (which is what you wanted), I just used Google Sketchup, which seems to be the design solution for a lot of woodworkers. I haven't spent a lot of time learning how to use it, but it appears to be very capable and I will try to transition to it for my next projects.

[Frank Snyder]

Hi Art. The ductwork will just clip the corner exposure of the window. Not a big deal IMO since it won't interefere with the window's operation (awning). The shop is plenty bright day or night, so its not like it's diminishing that effect. That location is really the lesser of many evils considered.

I have a Festool MFT1080 for my workbench (not in the shop yet), and I plan on building a slew of base and wall cabinets, and incorporate a SCMS station as well. It won't be for a few more months before I can get to this though...I have to knock some overdue woodworking projects off of my plate first before I can spend any more time on "finishing" the workshop. I'm over a month behind on my projected completion date, so the finishing touches will just have to wait a little longer.

[John Miliunas]

John - I think the Egyptians beat us hands down on using levers and gravity in their favor. I 've even seen some pictures of woodworkers rolling their equipment around on dowels. Simple solutions for complicated problems...gotta love 'em.

I like your suggestion for adding wye's and capping them for future use. I didn't think of this when I ordered my fittings, though. I think they also have saddle wye's which you can just cut a hole into the trunk and attach at any point. There seems to be a LOT of science to the whole ductwork thing...I'm not sure that mine will be a shining example of this, but I'll do my best. I'm assuming that clean-outs should go at the end of trunk and branch runs, as you'd have with DWV pipes?



LOL...You're right, the Egyptians done did it first! :D

Yeah, wye's at the ends of runs. At this time, my system branches out in 3 different directions and, I have 3 different wye's/clean-outs. I've not used any 3, as of yet, for additional equipment or, thankfully, clean-out duty, either!:) Just good to know that option is there in case I need it. I may, in fact, be routing one pretty soon to my lathe area, primarily to help capture sanding dust. One of these years, I foresee a shaper in there, which will definitely require its own port, too. All in all, it looks to me like you've got a great handle on things! Just be sure to check back often, as you just never know when someone can throw some bit of info out there which you may have missed in your planning stages! Good job. :) :cool:

[Jerry Olexa]

Frank, again, looking very good. And now you have some "real" tools to start the projects. Great progress, Enjoy your new digs. Thanks for your informative posts!!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Dreamshop! Very nice machinery...looks great in the new shop. I like the way you wounted the Gorilla higher to use a bigger drum underneath....smart.

[Jeff Jump]

Excellent! I have thoroughly enjoyed following your posts!
Please keep posting as you finish the details of the shop...cabinets, benches, storage etc.
Again great job!
Jeff

[Don Bullock]

Frank,

Thank you for the reply on the software. I thought you used some Punch software for the house. I have the newer version and have been working on plans for our new home using it. I'm still learning the software though. You did a fantastic job with it.

I downloaded the Sketchup software, but haven't had time to look at it yet. It looks like I'll need to be looking at it soon.

Again, your shop design and work looks great. I would echo the suggestion of adding storage. While a woodworker never has enough clamps, a homeowner never has enough storage.

As for AutoCAD, I'm not there yet, but I can see the possible need for it if I'm going to create detailed drawings.

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks again guys, for the encouragement. I'll keep posting new developments as they happen. I also plan on posting the many projects I have to work on over the following months, but I will start new threads for those.

Don - The older version of Punch that I have had some limitations with what you can create. Dormers were an issue if I recall. I haven't seen their lastest products, though. If you're interested in learning AutoCAD, I found that taking an entry level course at a local community college was a good starting point. I also picked up a 3rd party manual for it which I keep around as a reference when I get stuck.

[Frank Snyder]

After some delays with acquiring the wye's I needed, I was finally able to get moving with the ductwork this week. All of the wye's are from Onieda, and the rest of the ductwork is the 30ga. HVAC they sell at the Borg. The blast gates are the self-cleaning type from Lee Valley. I used suspended ceiling I-hooks and some 16ga. galvanized steel wire to hang the ductwork from the ceiling. To attach the vertical pipe to the wall, I drilled a hole in the backside of a band clamp and screwed it to the wall with a pan-head screw and a washer between the clamp and the wall. I tried to avoid 90 degree turns and used two 45's instead where applicable. I also taped all of the joints with foil HVAC tape and caulked all of the rivets. For the hollow chisel mortiser, I added a floor sweep next to it to collect the debris (not a big dust maker). For the long 28ft wall (no windows), I'm going to build base and wall cabinets, and include a SCMS station with dust shroud. I thought I might run the ductwork underneath the countertops along this wall and create quick-connect port connections for benchtop tools. This project will have to a wait a few more months, though.

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I'm not asthetically crazy about this arrangement, but it seems to work. I may still need to move the planer and TS around so I wanted these connections to be somewhat flexible.

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The suction coming from this system is just downright scary. Like most Oneida owners have reported, the dust bin gets picked up off the ground during use which is kinda cool. The noise isn't too bad, but I would still wear ear protection. At least now I can get back to woodworking. Next week, I will be making some interior doors for our house and I will follow up with how things are working.

[Jim Becker]

Frank, looks like things are coming along very nicely...and there are some wonderful goats in that shop! (The mortiser is very impressive looking...be sure to do a full review on it!)

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Very nice setup, the ductwork looks great. You might be makin' dust soon, but it looks like you won't see any of it 'til you empty that canister....:D:D:D

[Frank Snyder]

Thanks for the compliments, Jim and Kelly. I can post reviews of all of these tools once I get some quality time in on each of them.

The 43-7/8" capacity under the chisel is what sold me on that mortiser. You lock your work down once and the head moves on the x, y and z axis. It came with a 1" bit which is really quite massive. I need to pick up some smaller bits for upcoming projects. Has anyone used the Lee Valley bits with any of Powermatic's mortisers? PM includes an extension for the bit, but I'd like to avoid using it if I can find bits that are long enough.

[Chris de la Pena]

Hi Frank,

Neighbor here and new to this forum. I've read this thread from start to finish and all I can utter was AMAZING craftsmanship and then topping it off with your tools! Wish I have you as a next door neighbor :p Great job!

Chris D.

[Frank Snyder]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the compliments. With the amount of noise I make, I'm not so sure you'd want me as your neighbor ;). SMC is a great site and the members are the friendliest of people.

I know exactly where Carpentersville is...I have a good friend in East Dundee. I love the older homes in that area, especially in downtown West Dundee. PM me if you're ever in the neighborhood and you can check out the shop for yourself.

[Jim O'Dell]

Man, you even make quick work of you cyclone ducting!!! Looks like you had a tough time with all the different directions you had to go to plumb in all the equiment, but you did it! If you have plenty of suction, and you should, you'll be fine.
I'm still working on insulation (just some small pieces at the edges of the ceiling in the finish/assembly room). I'm installing my "baseboard" now, got about 1/2 done today, then I'll start putting up some OSB on the walls and ceiling, then finish the upper part of the walls. I started about a year and a half before you did, and looks like I'll finish about a year after you! :o :D
Great looking shop, Frank. You've worked really hard on it, now it's time to enjoy it! Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Hi Jim,

I wish you were closer so I could give you a hand to finish your shop. The last few steps seemed to take the longest and be the most arduous to finish. I thought I took way too long to get to this point and I overshot my November 1st deadline by quite a bit. I had planned on 4 months from start to finish and it took almost 6 months. I also went over budget by about 10%. Live and learn...

What kind of baseboard are you using? I used the vinyl self-adhesive-backed on a roll kind, and I wouldn't use this product ever again. I though I could save myself the time of spreading on the cove adhesive, but this stuff would not stay on the walls. I eventually picked up a couple of quarts of cove adhesive and had to reapply it to get it to stay put. The outside corners didn't cooperate either. In retrospect, I should've used real wood baseboard molding.

Keep up the progress on your workshop and I hope we'll see you making sawdust in there soon.:p

[John Shuk]

Frank,
Thanks for the great diary. I'm thinking of building a similar sized shop in the next year or two. If it isn't bad form to ask what did you find a budget for this kind of building to be. Just a ball park. I'm in the northeast so I imagine construction will be very similar.
John

[Jim O'Dell]

Frank, I used 1 X 4 pine. I'm going to set my OSB wall board on top of it, that's why earlier I said I was installing "baseboard", because that's not technically what it is. But it will stick out a 1/4 or slightly less, from the OSB, so it will serve the same purpose, I guess.
I joke a lot about how long it is taking me, but only getting to work on the weekends, and I have to work a half day every other Saturday, plus times I can't get out there even on the weekends, I'm ok with it. And it goes slow too because money is tight right now. I actually built a wooden garage door panel today for a friend. I tried to solidify the old one with some plywood yesterday afternoon, but it was too far gone. I bought some supplies today to finish the other 2 light reflectors (just remembered, it's still in the van :eek:) , the baseboard that I'm working on, and the plastic to act as the vapor barrier. So I've got plenty to do. I'll get next Saturday to work on it before we go to Oklahoma for Christmas at the inlaws. Then I'll have 2 1/2 days during the New Years weekend, so all is good. Talk to you later. Jim.

[Andy Hoyt]

As long as you're discussing baseboards, allow me to toss in my solution.

I didn't install any in my shop - three reasons.
I knew that when it was all said and done none of it would be visible for all the stuff up against the wall.

I'm lazy.

I'm cheap.

[Frank Snyder]

John - I PM'd you.

Andy - Those are ALL valid reasons. I mainly wanted the least expensive solution to protect the drywall along the floor. Of course, most intelligent woodworkers wouldn't have drywalled their shop like I did ;). Good to hear from you, Andy.

[John Hoelmer]

Frank,

Fantastic job you're doing and like a lot of folks can't believe how fast you're getting things done! I've been following this thread with great interest since I'm in the process of finishing a shop similiar in size to yours but I've been at it off and on for the last 18 months.
I'm just now in the process of installing a 2hp super dust Gorilla and am working on the duct design. From all the reading I've done on the subject everybody says you should use at least 26 ga duct, anything thinner and they say it could collapse, so I was suprised when you mentioned that you're using 30 ga duct throughout. Any problems with it when all the gates are closed? I'm very tempted to do the same thing since it's cheaper and easily obtainable. Looks like you've done your homework throughout this whole process so if you don't have any qualms about it, I'm not going to either.

John

[Jim Becker]

John, 26 guage is easily accessable and the price difference isn't that great in the scope of things. The borg does carry it...they call it "stove pipe" sometimes and generally only carry 24" sectoins. Your local HVAC supplier likely has it too, and will probably have it in five footers as well as the shorter pieces. I, too, was a little concerned with Frank's mention of using 30 gauge... ;)

[Frank Snyder]

John & Jim - I had to economize here at the end of this project, and I could either spend $500 on ductwork or over $1000. PVC was not an option in my mind. I've read posts from other woodworkers who have used the 30 ga. HVAC pipe with no problems to report on 2-3 HP systems. It does dent easily, whereas the 24-26 ga. fittings from Oneida are really tough. I ran the DC with all of the blast gates closed just to see, and nothing collapsed. If I was using a larger DC system (7hp or 3000+ CFM perhaps), then I would expect the 30 ga. pipe to implode at some point.

As I am a one man shop and I'm not prone to banging things up while I work, I felt fine going with the lighter gauge (and less expensive) fittings and pipe. If cost wasn't an issue, then I would go with the heavier gauge pipe. Heck, I'd use the NORDFAB pipe if I could afford it.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I did use the Oneida wye's and I'd recommend them. I spent over $300 on just the wye's alone. I used two 30 ga. adjustable elbows to make one 90, then I wrapped them in HVAC foil tape . Wrap them enough and your 30 ga. fittings become 26 ga. fittings ;). Honestly, they seem flimsy until you tape them, but once you do, they stiffen up. I used the exterior grade foil tape ($18 a roll) which helps.

One positive aspect (other than savings) on using the 30 ga. pipe is that it is a LOT easier to cut with hand snips than the heavier gauge pipe. Unless of course, you have a pneumatic nibbler or power shears.

Thicker is always better, but occasionaly, as it was in my case, cost was an issue. I was willing to be the guinea pig with the thinner gauge pipe. My money was on the premise that they weren't going to collapse.

John - Best of luck to you with finishing your shop. Have you posted pictures yet? Don't try to mount that Gorilla by yourself...get at least two more burly friends to assist you...that thing is really top heavy.

[john bardsley]

frank,

This is unbelievable, I once to see your shop over my fence, now I can see it from Florida. :)Great to see you last week, thanks for the blade , must go now.

[Bill Wyko]

Fanntastic job. What I'd give for a few more sq ft.:D

[Frank Snyder]

John - Glad to see you found my thread. It was great to see you as well. Hope the blade comes in handy for you.

Bill - Thanks for the compliment. This project was a tremendous amount of work and looking back at it makes me wonder just what was I thinking? In hindsight, I just wish I could have made it bigger :rolleyes:.

[Jim O'Dell]

snip

Bill - Thanks for the compliment. This project was a tremendous amount of work and looking back at it makes me wonder just what was I thinking? In hindsight, I just wish I could have made it bigger :rolleyes:.

Gee, I've never seen that comment before!! :D:D:D
Frank, I think you need to do an update with some more interior shots, where the tools settled in, and what you've been making! Jim.

[Frank Snyder]

Hi Jim. Good to see you here again. I need to catch up on your shop thread as well. I'll post some updated pictures here soon. I'm in the middle of finishing up a big cabinet project and it's taken over my shop. They'll be out of here by the weekend so I can take some updated pictures then.

[Frank Snyder]

Here's some updated pictures of the shop. I've had a few new tool additions (including a very fine Kapex).

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[Frank Snyder]

Some more pics...
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[Frank Snyder]

And the last few...
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[Jim Becker]

Shop looks great, Frank! Congrats on such a fine project that really turned out wonderfully.

[Art Mulder]

Wow, that's clean.

I've never seem a mat like that ... I assume that it goes under the car? Do you have a car in there a lot?

The bikes seem awkward to get at, squirreled away in the corner like that?

I'm curious, as well, about the TS arrangement. So many folks put their TS so that you can do long rips, which would be at right angles to the way you have it. Does your work not require much in the way of long rips? Or do you pivot it if needed? I don't see a mobile base.

best,
...art

[Frank Snyder]

Jim - Thanks! I'm in-between projects today and needed to take shop pictures for our woodworking club, so I thought I would hit two birds with one stone here.

Art - The mat is called a "Car Pad". It is a vinyl mat with a garden hose edge which traps water and dirt. You just drag it outside and hose it off. In the winter, my wife likes to park her car in the warm garage, so all of the "car tartar" snow and ice melt off the car and the water collects in the mat. When she leaves, I get to take my wet/dry shop vac to it and suck up the water. It also raises the humidity level in the shop, so I run a dehumidifier out there during the winter. Unfortunately, there's little wiggle room with this arrangement (wifey), so I just have to deal with it.

Surprisingly, the bikes are easy to get down and they don't get in the way either. Perfect location for them.

The PM2000 has an integrated mobile base which lowers casters via the tilt wheel on the saw. I just swing it 180 degrees into the car bay and can rip 16 ft. lengths if need be. The DC and power follow along.

[Don Bullock]

Your shop turned out great!! Thanks for the pictures. They gave me a few ideas for mine -- that is if the county ever issues a permit.