Miter Saw Decision Delta 12" vs. Bosch 10" slider

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hey all, I'm trying to choose between these two saws. I like the laser on the Delta 12" nonslider but I was wondering if the Bosch has any advantages. I know the Bosch has a couple of inches x-cut capacity but I've never had a chance to see one . I've seen the Delta and it looks very beefy and easy to use. I guess MOST IMPORTANTLY I'd like to know your opinions of the quality of both saws too. Thanks Alan in Md.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Alan. Let me give you my biased opinion. ;)

First of all the laser pointer is a gimmick and of little to no value. What you need to consider is CMS versus SCMS. The SCMS is the winner, hands down. With it you can position the blade tip up and down along the cut line and know EXACTly where the blade will cut. No need to take second-hand opinion from a laser pointer.

Now that we have it settled that you want an SCMS, we have to address the brand. When it comes to SCMS, there are two brands: Mikita and others. That is all you need to know. I have had the Mikita L1013 10" SCMS for about two years, and it is a fine saw. The blade that comes with it is excellent, you will want to sand the cut surface to be sure the glue will stick. Check around this board and others, the most recommended SCMS is the Mikita L1013.

I bought my L1013 from Amazon....

[Howard Barlow]

I agree with almost everything Ken said, almost. :D

Dewalt 708.

[David Rose]

Alan, I've never owned a slider, but have heard that they are more difficult to use for fine cuts. That is they seem to have a little more play for clean miters and such. I think it would all depend on what you plan to do with it. And things may have changed about the precision since I bought the Dewalt 705 about 4 years ago.

I agree about the laser being a gimmick. If you are rough cutting, the slot in the table (make a quick "0" clearance insert) is a good enough guide. If you want good clean repeatable cuts go for some sort of stop system. I just built one somewhat similar to the Beismeyer except of wood.

David

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Alan. Let me give you my biased opinion. ;)

First of all the laser pointer is a gimmick and of little to no value. What you need to consider is CMS versus SCMS. The SCMS is the winner, hands down. With it you can position the blade tip up and down along the cut line and know EXACTly where the blade will cut. No need to take second-hand opinion from a laser pointer.

Now that we have it settled that you want an SCMS, we have to address the brand. When it comes to SCMS, there are two brands: Mikita and others. That is all you need to know. I have had the Mikita L1013 10" SCMS for about two years, and it is a fine saw. The blade that comes with it is excellent, you will want to sand the cut surface to be sure the glue will stick. Check around this board and others, the most recommended SCMS is the Mikita L1013.

I bought my L1013 from Amazon....

Hi Ken,

Please don't be afraid to give your opinion on this. :) But seriously thanks for the input. I have heard about the L1013 and it gets glowing reports but is more than I wanted to spend. But I may consider it anyway. When I visited Amazon there were about 59 give or take glowing reports on the Bosch saw. I would think the Makita is better for the difference in money.

Thanks again. Alan

[Bob_Hammond]

I have the Dewalt 708 also and really like it. I would mention though that the SCMS takes a lot of real estate. I'm in the process of building a permanent table for it, and I have to make the table 36" deep to allow for the depth of the saw.

Something to think about.

Bob

[Bob Lasley]

Alan,

I recently aquired the Porter Cable version of the 12" Delta, same saw with the PC brand on it. I already had a radial arm saw for rough cutting wider stock and needed something for accurate miters and 90 degree crosscuts and the PC/Delta delivers. I did upgrade from the 60 tooth blade that comes with the saw to an 80 tooth blade. I had to tweak the laser as the new blade cut a slightly wider kerf. The laser is helpful and accurate, but on repetitive cuts, I agree with David, use stops. The saw has plenty of power and is a good solid machine.

If I didn't already have the radial arm, I would have been looking at sliders. The only one I have used is the Dewalt and it is nice machine.

Good luck with your decision,
Bob

[Rob Glynn]

I have the Bosch, a few years old now. It is a good saw, but not perfect.
It tracks well and smoothly, it is true at all angles once set correctly, it has plenty of grunt and the Bosch blade that came with it is a good one.
On the other hand, it is a real dog to adjust. The stops are bolts with lock nuts and, as is the nature of that beast, fine adjustment requires 3 hands holding 5 spanners.
Once you get it set up right it stays right and mine has cut 100s of pieces without requiring any further adjustment.
The fence on mine is square to the bed and adjusted straight but it is short and the system provided by Bosch to extend it is silly and, in any event, an accessory you have to pay for. Be prepared to build or buy a custom stand for your saw, Bosch or any other, if you want to cut long pieces.
SCMSs are the devil to arrange dust collection that actually works. The little outlet on the guard catches some, but nowhere near enough, and building a dam and shute behind the saw is tricky and, because of the slides and the arc they travel through, takes up quite some space. That is a hassle with all SCMSs and is not a critisism of the Bosch in particular.
I don't know the Delta. That is not a brand we see in Australia. From seeing posts on this and other boards, I understand that Delta are a good company to deal with and make a good product.

[Rob Russell]

I'll add another opinion that's just as unbiased as Ken's.

I'd challenge anyone who says you can't do fine work with a SCMS. I've done fine trim work with my SCMS that gave light tight miters which even needed a slight bevel to accomodate off-kilter walls.

Spend the money once to buy a top-of-the line SCMS and don't look back. The flexibility it gives you is like comparing a sliding table saw to a regular saw.

FWIW, I have the Dewalt 12" 708. I know there are Makita die-hards and that's fine. There's a group of equally passionate Hitachi owners. This is sort of like arguing F-150 vs. Chevy/GMC 1500 vs. Ram 1500. You win no matter what.

If you have to economize somewhat, consider buying a 10" SCMS over the 12" CMS.

The laser is nice, but an option and gimmick. You can add one lazter if you decide that you can't live without it.

I'll take a SCMS with out a laser over a CMS w/laser any day.

Rob

[Dan Smith]

I have the bosch. Have had it for about 1 year. Agree with what was said that it takes a little bit to get it set up, but I think most all tools do. Have never had to readjust it since. Cuts well, cuts clean. I don't do percision picture framing with mine, so I cannot comment on the percision of the finest miters, but for everything I have done (90% of which is square cuts) it is perfect.

Cannot comment on the Delta as I have not seen or used it.

Regards,

dan

[Mark Mandell]

Alan,

I'll point out that size does make a difference.

You've not said what you need the saw for, and that's a real consideration. If you need DEPTH of cut like cutting 4" thick material or so in a single pass, a 12" saw is the direction you should go, but note that a 12" blade (originally marketed for construction trades cutting pine and fir) has much more flex and will tend to wiggle through a cut in hardwoods. That can be a real disappointment when trying to cut hairline miters in a prime piece of cherry. The 12" saws are all fitted with thin kerf blades which only makes the problem worse. I've had my large Makita (LS-1211) for 9 years, and, tho it's a fine tool, I had to go to a pricey, full kerf, 100 tooth blade to get cut accuracy comparible to some good 10" saws.

If you're doing furniture and/or fine crosscutting in up to 8/4 stock, a 10" saw will fit your bill better. The Makita LS-1013 is a very good saw, durable, and easy to keep adjusted. I also know many trim carpenters who would not work with anything but a Hitachi C10FSB.

Pass the laser thingy by. I know several who disconnected/removed theirs as they were more of a distraction than a help, and usually inaccurate. There's just no real substitute for bringing the tooth points down onto the wood to determine the actual cut-line.

Mark Mandell

[Alan Tolchinsky]

the saw for rough cut off but also for miters for frames and fine furniture building. Thanks Alan







Alan,

I'll point out that size does make a difference.

You've not said what you need the saw for, and that's a real consideration. If you need DEPTH of cut like cutting 4" thick material or so in a single pass, a 12" saw is the direction you should go, but note that a 12" blade (originally marketed for construction trades cutting pine and fir) has much more flex and will tend to wiggle through a cut in hardwoods. That can be a real disappointment when trying to cut hairline miters in a prime piece of cherry. The 12" saws are all fitted with thin kerf blades which only makes the problem worse. I've had my large Makita (LS-1211) for 9 years, and, tho it's a fine tool, I had to go to a pricey, full kerf, 100 tooth blade to get cut accuracy comparible to some good 10" saws.

If you're doing furniture and/or fine crosscutting in up to 8/4 stock, a 10" saw will fit your bill better. The Makita LS-1013 is a very good saw, durable, and easy to keep adjusted. I also know many trim carpenters who would not work with anything but a Hitachi C10FSB.

Pass the laser thingy by. I know several who disconnected/removed theirs as they were more of a distraction than a help, and usually inaccurate. There's just no real substitute for bringing the tooth points down onto the wood to determine the actual cut-line.

Mark Mandell

[Ken Garlock]

HI again Alan.

Actually, when I started searching for an SCMS, I looked really hard at the DeWalt 10" saw. I think that if you stick with a major manufacture, you will get a good saw. IMO, a good SCMS will run you about $500 or more. Remember, buy quality, and buy once.

BTW, the cabinet shop which built our kitchen/bath cabinets had a Milwaukee CMS set up for exactly 90 deg., and never used it for anything other than making 90 deg. cuts. For what it is worth....

[Mark Mandell]

the saw for rough cut off but also for miters for frames and fine furniture building. Thanks Alan
Alan,

I got my 12" saw because I was working larger dimensional stock for decks and such. If you're going to be chopping 2x material, stay with a 10" saw IMHO.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

cordless drill the Makita is looking good to me. Makita is giving one free with the saw purchase on Amazon. Thanks for all the great advise. You guys are the best. Alan in Md.






I got my 12" saw because I was working larger dimensional stock for decks and such. If you're going to be chopping 2x material, stay with a 10" saw IMHO.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

top/bench you need for the Makita? I need to know how much more depth it will take up over a regular CMS. Thanks Alan in Md.





Actually, when I started searching for an SCMS, I looked really hard at the DeWalt 10" saw. I think that if you stick with a major manufacture, you will get a good saw. IMO, a good SCMS will run you about $500 or more. Remember, buy quality, and buy once.

BTW, the cabinet shop which built our kitchen/bath cabinets had a Milwaukee CMS set up for exactly 90 deg., and never used it for anything other than making 90 deg. cuts. For what it is worth....

[Jay Albrandt]

Hi Alan,

I just did this about 6 months ago. I spent a lot of time researching SCMS's and going and looking at ALL the models available. Unfortunately, I don't really have an opinion on the Dewalt, other than I personally didn't like how the saw felt to me. The Hitachi was the same...it just didn't feel right. So for me, that left Makita and Bosch. I'll be honest...I really wanted the Bosch because of all the controls are up front and that seemed like a really nice feature. However, I found one...just one...negative report on the Bosch ( I was looking at 12" saws and the Bosch was really new at this point), but it was from a trim carpenter that uses it every day. He discovered that the Bosch arbor is held by a nice bearing on the blade side but on the other end, it is held by a small needle bearing. This amounts to up and down motion of the whole blade assembly. I went and looked again at the saw, and sure enough, if you grab the blade and wiggle it up and down, it moves! I guess this translates into side to side motion of the blade as it's cutting, which is obviously going to affect the quality of the cut. This guy said his "bread and butter" is being able to cut tight joints all day and he eventually returned the saw and talked to Bosch about the problem. As far as I know, the problem still exists.

I settled on the Makita LS 1212. I know all the arguments about 10" vs 12", but I have been really happy with the extra capacity. Also, the story about a slider not being able to produce perfect cuts is bunk. The first thing I did with my saw out of the box was "test" it by making a psuedo-picture frame. The joints came out perfect...all I needed for the glue up was masking tape on the corners, and it was dead on tested by my best square.

Good hunting,

Jay

[Tom Peterson]

Alan, you can't go wrong with Makita. I bought mine on E-Bay 6 months ago new for $389, plus $25 for shipping. I was able to get a $25 rebate from Makita and it has a full warranty new not one of the re-builds.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan, you can't go wrong with Makita. I bought mine on E-Bay 6 months ago new for $389, plus $25 for shipping. I was able to get a $25 rebate from Makita and it has a full warranty new not one of the re-builds.

Tom, Do you remember where you got it on Ebay? Thanks Alan

[Gilbert Vega]

This is my first post here, but have been lurking for a while. Just thought I'd mention that I just picked up a DeWalt 706 double compound saw yesterday at Home Depot. I noticed a basket full of saws and asked if they were being discounted. After the clerk asked the MOD, he said they were 20% off. Got it for $276, brand new. I have been using a 10" Delta but need a larger capacity. You might go by HD and see if they have anybeing discounted.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

This is my first post here, but have been lurking for a while. Just thought I'd mention that I just picked up a DeWalt 706 double compound saw yesterday at Home Depot. I noticed a basket full of saws and asked if they were being discounted. After the clerk asked the MOD, he said they were 20% off. Got it for $276, brand new. I have been using a 10" Delta but need a larger capacity. You might go by HD and see if they have anybeing discounted. ghghghghhghghghghghg

[Jason Roehl]

I'll throw my hat in the ring for the yellow SCMS--the DeWalt 708. My Starrett square says mine is still accurately setup after several years of infrequent use, but several trips in the back of my truck (read: chaos). A large portion of the accuracy has to do with the blade, and the skill of the user. Use the stock blade for rough cut-offs, but get yourself a Forrest blade (although, I got a 12" 96T DeWalt Series 60 blade that works very well).

[Phil Phelps]

I agree with almost everything Ken said, almost. :D

Dewalt 708.
Me too:
Laser is a gimmic? If you use it to cut picture frame molding, it is an asset. To each his own. :)

[Tom Peterson]

At that time, someone from Northern Illinois had a couple of them he got as overstocks and was selling. just search E-bay for Makita, LS1013. Be careful not to be confused by the 1013R which is the re-manufactured one unless that is what you want.

The saw cuts great. I am making a down-draft miter saw station for it now