Rail Coping Jig

[glenn bradley]

ANy of you guys ever tried these things? I had seen a couple variations on these from various supply houses. I have a drawer that's got random jig parts in it that I draw from and return to as required. I had the lever clamps and figured, why not?

The bed is 1/2 BB Ply, (if you used phenolic it could be thinner). The miter bar is an Incra. I drilled access holes for the slop adjustment pins. One version I saw used the sliding block for larger rails. It looked like a good idea so I used it. I made some backer boards out of scrap MDF and that's about it.

The RT fence is referenced off the bit bearing and makes a quick stop block for loading the rails to be cut. The pic titles are probably clear enough; I won't bore you with a narration. It works pretty well and of course, there's that increased safety thing, eh?

[Vaughn McMillan]

Neat job, Glenn. I don't think I'd seen any of the clamping lever tingies with twin pads on them. Looks like just the right thing for your application.

- Vaughn

[Brian Gumpper]

Thanks for the post Glenn, I need to make one of these. I wasn't going to use the miter slot on the table though. Do you have any problem keeping the sled square to the fence? Using the miter slot would mean the fence would have to be parallel to the miter slot but maybe it's not an issue with the short cope.

Thanks

[glenn bradley]

Really not an issue. Actually having the miter bar removes the requirement of having the fence parallel. I just use the fence as a sort of stop block to line up the next piece to be cut. I don't rely on it for a guide while sliding.

Other types of these I've seen just ride against the fence. In that instance the single spinning cutter using a bearing guided bit makes the issue of a parallel fence go away. You just use the fence for depth.

I opted for the miter slot as I went through pains to true it up to the slots on the TS. This allows me to use it for sled rails on larger cutoff sleds. It is also true to the TS fence which comes in handy in expanding my overall TS/RT combo flexibility.

Thanks!

[glenn bradley]

The extra posts on the clamping thingies are actually riser bolts like you find used for appliance feet. I just attached some high density felt pads to them. Used it again this morning; I'm starting to like this thing.

[Burt Waddell]

The extra posts on the clmping thingys are actually riser bolts like you find used for appliance feet. I just attached some high density felt pads to them. Used it again this morning; I'm starting to like this thing.

Glenn,

That is a wonderful jig. I found several years ago that it was easier for me to do the rails in a wide boardand them rip to size. In other words, I route a 5" wide board and rip it to 2 - 2 1/2 boards?

You said that the extra feet on the clamps were appliance feet with felt pads added. Are you referring to the ones that look white in the photo's?


Burt

[Corey Hallagan]

Glenn, nice job. Looks like it will get the job done no problem.

Corey

[glenn bradley]

Correct on the feet. ;-) I built it with capcity to do the wide board thing (by accident). Great tip on saving time doing multiple rails. I generally rip mine a little wide and trim to final width after profiling. Your method would allow that as well with less waste. Thanks!

[Chip Harlow]

Glenn
I liked your jig so much I drew up some plans in sketchup. The clamps are 217U's. Thank you for sharing your coping jig.

Chip

[Dewey Torres]

Glenn
I liked your jig so much I drew up some plans in sketchup. The clamps are 217U's. Thank you for sharing your coping jig.

Chip

WOW Chip ... I need a sketchup lesson from you! Did someone teach you or did you learn online?

[Jim Becker]

Looks like a winner to me, Glenn!!

[Neal Clayton]

WOW Chip ... I need a sketchup lesson from you! Did someone teach you or did you learn online?

quoted for emphasis.

it would take me a week to draw out those clamps like that :(.

[David DeCristoforo]

That's a very nice jig. May I make one suggestion? My tenoning/coping jig is not nearly as nice as the one you have made. But it has a replaceable "sacrificial" fence face that overhangs the edge of the jig. After I have set my cutter and made test cuts to verify the settings, I attach the sacrificial face and run it through the cutter. Now there is a backing for the cope cutter that will prevent the stock from tearing out when the cutter exits.

[Bob Wingard]

I believe two of his pictures show that he HAS a sacrificial backer in place .. .. I just don't care for the way he has it locked into the sled. I prefer to lock the backer in place independent of the work piece.

[Karl Brogger]

I use one of these: http://www.relcuttools.com/copecrafter1.jpg

One of the best purchases I've made.
http://www.relcuttools.com/crafterfamily.shtml

[Peter Quinn]

Another nice jig Glenn. I agree with Mr. D that a replaceable backer built into the fence works well. I have one for my shaper coping jig where the backer has a T-slot routed into it and is held on by toilet flange bolts. Real quick to recut or replace as needed and stays in place. I built a similar jig from phenolic with the addition of a pivoting fence to handle angles up to 45 degrees.

For the router I skip the jig and use an MDF push block with a handle screwed to it. Real basic but it works.

[Karl Brogger]

I always run my backer piece loose, or at least just held in place by the clamp. I cut my rail and stiles a 1/16" big and the coper takes a 1/32" off of both ends. This means that my backer gets shorter and shorter.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I always run my backer piece loose..."

I do just the opposite. The "backer" is attached to the jig. That way it can serve as an end "stop" (actually more of a "gauge") as well as prevent tear out. Then you don't need the fence to serve as an end stop. I use a clamp on dust hood so the fence is usually just in my way anyhoo...

[glenn bradley]

That's a very nice jig. May I make one suggestion? My tenoning/coping jig is not nearly as nice as the one you have made. But it has a replaceable "sacrificial" fence face that overhangs the edge of the jig.

In the first pic you see two sets of posts on the clamp arms. The rear (black rubber tipped) posts hold the replaceable backer piece. The front (larger) posts hold the piece being machined ;-)

[David DeCristoforo]

There is one other thing I would suggest. Often, you need to cope wide pieces for things like arched rails or if, for any reason, you have a wide bottom rail. In those cases, it would be really nice to have a couple of DeStaCo clamps on that sliding bar you have so that you can have two clamps holding down each edge of the rail.

[glenn bradley]

There is one other thing I would suggest. Often, you need to cope wide pieces for things like arched rails or if, for any reason, you have a wide bottom rail. In those cases, it would be really nice to have a couple of DeStaCo clamps on that sliding bar you have so that you can have two clamps holding down each edge of the rail.

Ahh, very cool idea David. . . I just happened to have a couple in the jig-stuff box. Thanks!

[Peter Quinn]

Nice jig glen. Mine is made with a phenolic base, a taller fence that articulates 45 degrees for angled copes, and the sacrificial backer is held to the fence with toilet bolts that grab a t-slot in the back of the backer. I do like a coping sled though I never considered buying one given how easy they are to make. Of course a set up like Karl's is a beauty for production work, but a bit tougher to fabricate in the small shop.

[J.R. Rutter]

I made a couple of these cope jigs to use commercially until the pneumatic jig (similar to Karl's) could be justified. This is the final iteration:

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/T40N%20COPE.jpg

The wooden handle joining the toggle clamps activates both at once and serves as a handle for pushing. We trim as we cope, so the backer board gets moved over every stack of rails to expose a fresh edge. The miter slot runner is made of self lubricating UHMW attached with countersunk screw holes. By tightening the screws, the fit can be adjusted as the angles screw heads expand the plastic slightly. Some sandpaper eliminates the need for a front block - just push tight and toggle lock and continue the push through the cutter. The squareness is adjusted with the bolts running through the back:

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/COPE%20ADJUST.jpg
http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/COPE%20BACKER.jpg

Here is a shot after a rail has been cut:

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/COPE%20+%20RAIL.jpg

[Byron Trantham]

The extra posts on the clamping thingies are actually riser bolts like you find used for appliance feet. I just attached some high density felt pads to them. Used it again this morning; I'm starting to like this thing.

Glenn,
The appliance feet is brilliant! I have a very similar sled I made several years ago always fight capturing of the backer and the stock. I think I am going to rebuild one like yours. I also like the variable leading clamp. All in all a great job!

[Karl Brogger]

JR- When ever you can, pick one up like I have. They're very fast, very safe, and extremely productive. A sound investment all the way around. I don't think they sell a left and right model, but its pretty easy to swap all the lines around and get the switch on the other side for seperate left & right copers.

The one I have I bought at the same time I bought my first shaper. I don't like haveing my digits anywhere near those cutters. Well worth whatever it is they cost. I don't remember, but I think it was $6-700.

[J.R. Rutter]

Karl - I now have a Ritter TESA sled mounted to a cast iron SCMI coping rail system.

[Michael Drew]

I need to build one of these today.

I’m trying to visualize what the advantage is with the sled riding in miter slot or the against the fence and my mind can’t seam to grasp why one method would be preferable to the other.

Can someone articulate what the benefits are for each?

[Britt Kelch]

J.R. where did you order the double camps with the handle? I would like to make a couple of sleds using these. Thank-You

b. Kelch

[Glen Butler]

In the first pic you see two sets of posts on the clamp arms. The rear (black rubber tipped) posts hold the replaceable backer piece. The front (larger) posts hold the piece being machined ;-)

I was wondering the purpose of the second clamp. I like that. I will have to incorporate that idea into mine. I am probably going to completely rebuild mine. I did a quick job of it cause I was in a hurry to get some cabinet doors made. Now I can do a proper job of it.

What is the purpose of the two slots, with t-bolts? Oh I think I just read that is for keeping the peice from sliding? I don't use sandpaper or a leading block. Those toggle clamp put an incredible amount of pressure. I feel that is all you need.

[Glen Butler]

I need to build one of these today.

I’m trying to visualize what the advantage is with the sled riding in miter slot or the against the fence and my mind can’t seam to grasp why one method would be preferable to the other.

Can someone articulate what the benefits are for each?

Running in the miter slot eliminates the need to keep pressure against the fence. The slot does all the work of holding the jig where it needs to be. Makes coping a quicker operation, and less tiring. I can't imagine how tired I would feel after coping hundreds of peices while holding a piece to the sled and the sled to the fence.

Benefit for using the fence? In my mind none. Clamp a block to the fence to act as a stop for the piece I am coping. Once it leave the surface of the block, the fence is out of the way.

[glenn bradley]

I was wondering the purpose of the second clamp. I like that.

The "rear" clamp post holds the sacraficial block, the "front" post holds the material being cut.


I don't use sandpaper or a leading block. Those toggle clamp put an incredible amount of pressure. I feel that is all you need.

I also ran without the sandpaper for quite awhile. I had a couple pieces move on me so I tried it. I can now use much less pressure and still get a good grip. No slips since applying the paper but, I did a lot of cuts without slips before the paper so, we'll see ;-)

[Michael Drew]

Running in the miter slot eliminates the need to keep pressure against the fence. The slot does all the work of holding the jig where it needs to be. Makes coping a quicker operation, and less tiring. I can't imagine how tired I would feel after coping hundreds of peices while holding a piece to the sled and the sled to the fence.

Benefit for using the fence? In my mind none. Clamp a block to the fence to act as a stop for the piece I am coping. Once it leave the surface of the block, the fence is out of the way.

That makes sence to me. Thank you Glen.

[Glen Butler]

I also ran without the sandpaper for quite awhile. I had a couple pieces move on me so I tried it. I can now use much less pressure and still get a good grip. No slips since applying the paper but, I did a lot of cuts without slips before the paper so, we'll see ;-)

I will have to try the sand paper. If I could loosen the tension on the clamp, and loosen my grip with the other hand, that would help the tiring factor.

[Erik Christensen]

these jigs are EXACTLY what I was looking for - man this site rocks...

my question is for using with a shaper - I have a plastic safety shroud that covers the cutters as a additional safety measure which I would like to use if it makes sense (it also seems to help with chip collection). That would mean I would have to move the clamps away from the fence side to clear that shroud (about 4") - good idea or not??

Those who have used this kind of jig - I can see having a clamp real close to the cutter would be good for controlling the stock - but with the kind of mongo gorilla clamps like JR uses would it make a difference? When you use this your hands are nice and protected so is the shroud over kill??

JR - what is the model # of the large toggle clamps you used in your jig?? I can't make out the part # and a quick look at my normal suppliers I can't find anything with the reach on your jig - thanks

[Dennis Lopeman]

ANy of you guys ever tried these things? I had seen a couple variations on these from various supply houses. I have a drawer that's got random jig parts in it that I draw from and return to as required. I had the lever clamps and figured, why not?

The bed is 1/2 BB Ply, (if you used phenolic it could be thinner). The miter bar is an Incra. I drilled access holes for the slop adjustment pins. One version I saw used the sliding block for larger rails. It looked like a good idea so I used it. I made some backer boards out of scrap MDF and that's about it.

The RT fence is referenced off the bit bearing and makes a quick stop block for loading the rails to be cut. The pic titles are probably clear enough; I won't bore you with a narration. It works pretty well and of course, there's that increased safety thing, eh?

Glenn - thank you. From the original post and your pictures I was inspired to build my coping sled. I built it this weekend when trying to start a project for rebuiling all my kitchen cabinets and drawers. Well, I have a LOT to learn. I spent all weekend trying to just build a front drawer face with scrap. I first started working with pine, just figuring out how to use my stile and rail bits (that I had never done before! - you have all been here so don't even laugh!!! LOL) Anyway... wow... tried freehand, then using my crappy tablesaw miter, trying to hold the tiny piece... well, freehand was just idiotic (don't try this at home kids!) and the miter kinda "worked" but after a few times of the bit pulling the peice and throwing it right past my head, i knew it was time for something radically different.

So I built a sled from some scraps, and the little piece of IKEA flooring. I was so proud. Took about an hour. well.... it lasted less than that!!! LOL... welp - time to take this seriously.

Enter sawmillcreek. I haven't seen you guys in a REAL long time! Nice to be back. I even forgot my username was my full name. Why does SawmillCreek do it that way!????

I looked at a bunch of sleds. Some "professional/purchase" ones, the $100-$300 range ones... I was like "I can build that! (we can build anything, right!?)"

I came across yours Glenn. That was what I needed to get the creative juices flowing. I basically did the same thing as you. I didn't see the need for the handle, and I wanted to apply pressure down and in towards the bit. I also like the "clamp" thingie, but I took it a notch higher and use a clamp to hold all the pieces together. I might get sick of using it eventually.

Also the Red toggle clamps I have (from HF) kinda suck and don't do anything. I may need to get better ones. With my clamp I may not actually need them. Right now then don't extend far enough to reach the work piece.. so they hold down the sacrificial board.

I also used MDF as my board. All the pieces are upgradable, of course! LOL - I'll see how long this lasts.

Anyway - just wanted to thank you for a simple solution. I ran a couple tests and calibrated it. I damn near PERFECT cuts! It was 11pm when I did that, so I'm excited to get back home tonight and try some more. Maybe I can even make that first prototype drawer front for the kitchen!!!

[Dennis Lopeman]

well - lemme tell you!!! Awesome.

I got to actually use it last night after dinner. In 5 minutes flat I cut a rail piece to my exact size, then ran it through the router with the coping sled, and VioLa!!! a PERFECT match to the previous piece.

Worked all weekend long on a sled and learning curves, and now I can make rails in very little time. I bet, if I had all my pieces pre-cut, I could get them all done in an hour or so!!!

Now I need a tool to do the STILES!!! LOL Actually I need to build a router fence for my tablesaw router insert... I'm in another thread talking about that...

I could proly do the stiles a little longer than I need, and then cut off to exact dimmensions after... hmmmm... I can zero in on the disc... cool.

NOW that I solved THAT... I need a good way to do the raised panel... :D

[glenn bradley]

That's great Dennis. Very glad the thread helped out.

[Chip Lindley]

I do coping on a shaper with the Weaver coping sled. It is all steel and allows quick insertion of another piece. No clamps; just the double handle which clamps the work down hard, as long as you have a strong grip!

Any coping sled which must be pushed against a fence may cause a bobble if the operator's pressure lets up. The bit wants to push stock away from the fence. A sled which runs in a miter slot will not bobble.

[Dennis Lopeman]

Chip - that's an interesting sled!

I got my sled and looks almost identical to the one posted in the first posts of this thread.

Thanks for all your inputs. It has been working great. Here's a couple pictures - one with "built in clamp" and the other with regular hand clamp. I have to say the regular actually seems much better - the built in doesn't seem like it's clamping very hard... although it has worked with out issues (after a glued in sandpaper!) YES - use sandpaper. It was seriosly 30 seconds - using 3m 77 spray and a sheet of paper (120 grit I think).

[Dennis Lopeman]

Very nice Glass Panel rails made from the Freud bits I have.

and a "loaded" sled (mock up - that rail is already done - but showing the "spacer" piece in there, too)
- also showing the slight "modification" using the piece of dogwood holding all the parts down.

I have also gotten stronger Toggle Handle things since these pictures. The news ones are REAL strong and almost pull the piece of wood that they are attached to UP out of the sled! I may be making a sled bottom out of something other than MDF someday!

Isn't that Dogwood piece purty? Dogwood is EXTREMELY hard. This thin piece (1/4 inch maybe) is so strong, I can't break it with my hands! Old time sewing factories used to use dogwood for the machine parts - spools and such! I've had this piece laying outside for years - sometimes in the weather, too! Still hard!! It hasn't changed much in color either. hmmm. I cut this piece about 7(?) years ago when I was just starting out.

And the sandpaper was 150 grit! This 3M spray rocks. I glued it on and went straight to using it... didn't really need to wait for any drying period!

I forgot to mention: i did not put a handle on... mostly because I didn't get around to it... and frankly - it doesn't need it!! I put my hand over the top and slide it no problems... I also make sure the sled stays down flat on the table.

Gesh - I keep thinking of more to say! See the sample piece I cut? Pretty complicated looking. Well, it was quite a learning curve setting up. Having some of those brass measuring sticks sure helps... but in the end I just eyeballed it and pretty much nailed it! Always cut sample pieces first... and practice until you feel you are comfortable and can repeat, repeat, repeat...

[Dennis Lopeman]

I also ran without the sandpaper for quite awhile. I had a couple pieces move on me so I tried it. I can now use much less pressure and still get a good grip. No slips since applying the paper but, I did a lot of cuts without slips before the paper so, we'll see ;-)


I ran without sandpaper at first, too. Eventually, the router kept pulling the piece out - luckily my fence was there (dust collection) and caught it. No fence and it woulda flown!

So - just use the sandpaper - it's wicked easy.

I also use all the other clamps and backer and sacrificial board and all that. Why not!? If not for just peace of mind!

OH - and I just realized that I have you, Glenn, to thank for my sled design. Thanks.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sweet design!
I guess it begs the question though of using the miter slot vs using the fence?

[J.R. Rutter]

J.R. where did you order the double camps with the handle? I would like to make a couple of sleds using these. Thank-You

b. Kelch


Those who have used this kind of jig - I can see having a clamp real close to the cutter would be good for controlling the stock - but with the kind of mongo gorilla clamps like JR uses would it make a difference? When you use this your hands are nice and protected so is the shroud over kill??

JR - what is the model # of the large toggle clamps you used in your jig?? I can't make out the part # and a quick look at my normal suppliers I can't find anything with the reach on your jig - thanks

Sorry I didn't see this 3 years ago when this thread was active! After the recent go round of buying a jig vs making a jig, I went looking for this post.

Here are the large clamps: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Clamp-Down-Type-Quick-Release-Toggle-Clamp-6-x-8-1-2-/G1774

The size isn't needed for any extra force, just for the longer arms and levers to make it more convenient and easier to actuate.