Ohio plane blade - laminated?

[Clinton Findlay]

This maker is pretty rare over here, thought I'd ask here.

I have a blade marked Ohio Tool Co, its a No7 size'd blade and very thick at the business end. Its tapered and has the 6 sided hole for the blade cap screw.
I have never seen a laminated blade, but seems to have a thin line of a different colour visible in the edge of the blade.

Did Ohio Tool Co make laminated blades?

All replies gratefully received.

[Tyler Howell]

Hi Clinton,
Do you have a picture:confused:

[James Mittlefehldt]

Not sure if they are laminated but I believe they are I have several and they are very thick as you say at the business end.

[Ian Gillis]

Hi

If it's laminated the difference in the 2 steels will be very obvious when you lap the back of the blade. The tool steel will come up much brighter than the mild steel it is bedded in. The junction between the two metals is hard to miss even at fairly coarse grits.

Some people have cautioned against removing too much material when lapping in case the blade may become undersize in regards to the wedge that holds it. If your initial lapping strokes reveal a lot of uneveness you might want to lap only the first inch or less behind the cutting edge. In that case you will not be lapping the mild steel and may not notice the junction.

I love the edge I get on an old laminated iron in an English foreplane I own. It is a bit brittle, but if you avoid slamming it into knots it stays sharp for a long time.

Cheers
IG

[harry strasil]

Laminated is as good a word as any, but to blacksmiths it was laid on. The main part of the blade is more than likely Wrought Iron, (no carbon content at all and very soft), what was called blister steel was forge welded to the top to do the cutting. The laid on part usually shows up as a blacker color in contrast to the WI. The blister steel was hardened and tempered usually to a straw color and it is quite hard and for me seems to hold an edge for a long long time. I have a few older chisels that have this laid on edge. and they last a long time too. In most of the old technical books I have the bevel was ground at just enough angle to clear the wood being worked as the laid on edge is very hard and brittle and needs the
WI underneath to support it. The blades have an even taper from top to bottom so the wedge will fit not matter the length, sometimes the wedge needs to be shortened tho. The blade will be absoulutely useless after the blister steel is gone tho.

The blades were tapered so they would wedge against the plane body and the keeper wedge as an even thickness blade in this instance will creep up as it is used.

[Mike Henderson]

Very interesting information, Harry. I always wondered why many of the older blades are tapered from bottom to top.

Mike

[Philip McKinney]

I have a number of Ohio Tool Co. planes and all of the blades are laminated. Those marked "Thistle Brand" are especially good in my experience. I only lap the backs a short distance from the edge, maybe an inch. the ones I have sharpened all have great steel, take a super edge and hold it reasonablty well for high carbon steel. then again I am only planing local woods, nothing exotic

[Mike Weaver]

I have an Ohio Tool #8 and its iron is laminated and beefy. :D

[Clinton Findlay]

Thank you all.
I don't have a pic - I don't own a digi-camera :o .

From what has been presented the blade is laminated (laid on), the 'line' is there.
It has been beveled at too low an angle though, I think I'll have to risk that as making the bevel angle higher will mean a fair amount of material is lost. I think I'll just micro-bevel a little too much - to try to get the edge supported as much as possible without grinding.

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate your input.

Harry - how different is blister steel to modern high carbon steel (O1)? Is the laid on process the same as brazing, or a different techinque completely? Its an interesting subject, so any further info would be much appreciated. thanks.

[harry strasil]

I am not sure anyone has ever done a testing of blister steel, its a really high carbon substance that was forge welded in a blacksmiths fire so that it essentially one piece when finished and then I assume was ground to a taper using large stones power by water wheels or steam engines. In the old spanish accounts of there expeditions, they list every thing that was taken on the expedition, and they list so much iron (wrought iron) and so much steel (blister steel) as well as forges, hammers tongs, anvils, woodworking tools etc. Blister steel is I believe an english term, the spanish term for the same thing eludes me at the moment

[Ian Gillis]

I want to ask a question about this "laid-on" process while we're on the subject. I have an old set of steel handled chisels that were in an old carpenter's chest I bought. They are laminated in the same way as the plane irons we're talking about. Here's the question... the blister steel has partially de-laminated on one of the chisels. Is is possible that a blacksmith could re-attach it? What do you think, Harry?

Thanks,
IG

[harry strasil]

yes, one that is very good at forge welding

there is a good young canadian smith named Don McKay that is a smith for the canadian govt, on a canal in ontario I think that would be more than capable of fixing it.

[harry strasil]

Ok, here goes.

this picture shows an old laid on framing chisel, notice the dark layer with the rounded section a little above midway, that is the end of the blister steel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/laidon1.jpg

same chisel showing the thin dark layer on the edge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/laidon2.jpg


this is an old laid on slick

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/laidon3.jpg


The cutting end of the slick, notice the tiny what looks like a crack, this is what is called a cold shut where the two pieces did not fuse together.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/laidon4.jpg

this one is not as evident but the blister steel is thicker, look at the line at the end of the arrow

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/laidon5.jpg

[Steve Clardy]

I've got a Revonoc #5 that has a laminated blade.
Just discovered it while I was sharpening it up.
Also a tapered blade, business end is close to 1/4" thick.

Just got it restored.
I'll hafta post a pic of it and the blade.

[Ian Gillis]

Hi

I was interested to see that Harry's 'laid-on' steel was darker than the body of the chisel. I had to go look at my laminated blade to see if I had got it backwards. As I said in my earlier post, the tool steel of the cutting edge was brighter than the wrought iron (or cast steel). I sure spent enough time looking at it when I lapped that big blade.

I've been wondering why the 'bit' on my plane iron would be chrome bright and Harry's chisel more steely grey. I don't know much about metallurgy - nothing actually - but my plane iron is English. If Harry's chisel is American, perhaps that would indicate different tool steels in use in different places. Possibly different times as well, but it would be hard to nail down a date. A wooden foreplane like mine wouldn't have changed much over the decades - and firmer chisels even less.

IG

[Mike Henderson]

My laminated chisels and plane blades look the same as Ian's - the steel is bright and the iron is grey.

I might also point out that most Stanley plane blades are laminated, at least the early ones that I have - through the 30's I suppose.

Mike

[harry strasil]

The laid on steel is a tight refined grain with a sometimes high carbon content while the body of WI has very little if any carbon and the wrought iron is grainy somewhat like the grain structure in wood and along the grain are deposits of siclica that works out when you are working it hot almost like the flux that is used to to keep it from oxidizing when forge or hammer welding it.

I don't hone the tops of the cutting edges as some of you do and the dark color is years of patina from being exposed to the air.

The only cutting blades I hone on the faces are the moulding cutters for my 45 and 55 planes. as the old instructions tell you to do it that way. Every once in a while it will lightly use a slip stone on the inside of the contour.

[Clinton Findlay]

Thanks for our reply Jnr.
I did a search and found out a lot of info on the laid on steel - it concurred with your thoughts.

The laid on part of my blade was buffed, as part of the epay marketing I suppose :rolleyes: , so its shiny.

I've looked for these blades in the usual Galoot online sources and can't find any for sale.... can anyone suggest where I might find some for sale in the US?
Ohio tools are a bit scarse over here (australia) and I like this type of blade. Any suggestions (other than Japanwoodworker new ones?)

[harry strasil]

Clinton, I usually pick mine up at Mid West Tool Collector meetings where some members have boxes of parts for sale.